Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.
buckeyeboywonder
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 6:28 pm
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA
Contact:

Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by buckeyeboywonder » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:55 pm

Hi All,

I have noticed as I have grown in presence, I find myself "further" away from others. I know this could be ego creeping up from behind, but I find myself "drifting away" from friends, especially those who are highly unconscious and completely absorbed in ego. Witnessing the neediness of other's ego (as well as my own), when one of my friends would approach me, I could sense their ego wanting to use me to get me to agree with them or to give them one little bite of "mind food" that they want to feel better. When I haven't spoken to one of my friends for a few days, she stopped talking to me because she (or rather, her ego) felt I wasn't being a "good enough" friend by not giving her constant attention. I just wanted to share that observation.

To the main point of this post: I am a gay male, and gay society is not an exception to heterosexual society: it is highly unconscious. I dated a guy for a few months who's ego is so volatile it almost makes me sick to my stomach with the things he (or rather, his ego) does. I made the personal decision to not talk to him when I see him out - and being part of the gay community, there is not a lot of variety as far as bars and clubs, so naturally I knew I would be running into him. He has called me vulgar names over the phone, in person, tried to manipulate me, and is extremely needy - often bringing out strong waves of pain-body and ego that I've never felt before (my ego is typically very calm and grounded). Physically, the collective ego would consider him very attractive, which is probably what is attributing to his inflated ego.

Anyways - Last night, when I saw him [my ex-boyfriend] out inside a gay bar, he saw me and immediately ran up to me: when I tried to walk past, he tried to shove me back and his drink spilled on me; I turned around and walk the other way, at which point he yelled "why are you being so dramatic?" (when in essence I was doing the exact opposite). He freaked out about me ignoring him and started screaming "(My first & last name) has AIDS!" He continued to walk around the club and tell people this.

I would consider myself to be a work-in-progress as far as gaining consciousness, but this upsets me greatly.. I know it's my ego that is upset because it's being "beaten down" and I am not, but it is still hurts. I do not have AIDS and I do not want others (or rather, other's egos) to judge me or think that as the truth. (Even though I know all the pain I feel from this incident is my ego causing it and my reaction to the situation, not the situation itself.)


My first question is: How do I cope with this highly unconscious ex-boyfriend? I am highly considering avoiding places I know he will be altogether for 5-6 months. Is this a good idea? What would be the best course of action in your opinion?

My second question is: How do I cope with situations like the one I've described above? I know the generic answer is to "remain present," but that is very vague. I know this may be the ego asking for "specifics" when "specifics" cannot be provided, but if anyone has been in a similar situation (which I'm sure many of you have) with a highly unconscious person, could you provide background as to what you did, and how you overcame the painful feelings inside?

I know he is unconscious and I should forgive him for he does not know; he does not know that his ego is not him and that it is causing all this pain, but it is very hard to forgive someone who has done unspeakable things to you through mental manipulation.

ginkgo
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:47 am
Contact:

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by ginkgo » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:18 am

Let us say that at one point I was confused and cut off my legs. What can I do about it now? So first thing is to accept that you created this situation. It is your karma that you created. I would have to spend the rest of my life without legs in the above example. So be careful who you befriend in the future.

You figure out the best way to help this guy to move on. Scientologists are experts on disconnection. When you see the guy just wish him the best with HIS life, doing your best to show that you do not want to be part of it. Of course you can also do your best to avoid them. Unconscious people like to hang out in groups or places where there are others like them. Before trying to help the situation, accept that you are the one who cut off your legs, in other words take responsibility for it.

Also another thing, Jesus says that you look for slivers in other's eyes when you have logs in your own eyes.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6387
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by Sighclone » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:35 pm

bbw -

Welcome to the forum. I wouldn't worry about him shouting around about you having AIDS. Others will consider the source. He will be whoever he is. Accept that. If you go where he is likely to be, expect some awkwardness and bad behavior from him - if it is a bar, consider telling management to ask him to leave if he is harrasing you, or maybe leave yourself. Starting a relationship with him was a mistake. At least you won't make that kind of mistake again.

As you change, your treatment of others is likely to change from old egoic patterns. Find better ways to relate to them that penetrates their ego-story, while remaining authentic, while keeping your integrity.

Good luck -

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

User avatar
Onceler
Posts: 2257
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:35 am
Location: My house

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by Onceler » Wed Sep 03, 2008 2:23 am

I appreciate your honesty, Buckeyeboywonder.

Andy's response is excellent and the only thing I would add is; stick to the truth. Negative folks are gifted at complicating the clear simplicity of the truth--it's probably why they are so negative.

What is the truth in this Matter?

You don't have AIDS.
You don't want to be around this charachter.
You can't trust him to treat you with respect.

I am sure there is more truth. If this leads you to going out and living your life, fine. If it leads you to staying in, fine. I personally like to avoid highly negative folks. When I can't I try to see what lesson I need to learn from them. When the lesson is learned they may evaperate...

Good luck.
Be present, be pleasant.

User avatar
moonmissy
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:15 am
Location: Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada
Contact:

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by moonmissy » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:01 am

Hi buckeyeboywonder,

I had an experience not long ago. I felt that the world is so unconscious and that the unconscious energy of people push and pull you into being unconscious, then there is anger, pain and suffering. I wanted so much to join a Zen monastery, where life is simple, no money to be made, no fashion to pick and wear, everyone's goal is to practice "being". I was stuck wanting to finish all my responsibilities that I have in life here and wrap everything up to get myself to a monastery.
Gosh, was I suffering and confused by that thought.

Then one day, I realized that .....I'm holding on to something...I'm not totally surrendering; which is the point of the PON practice. I'm holding on to "good things" as defined by my thoughts. "Happier, blissfull moments" and not accepting that the painful moments (or more like painful sensations now), are also a part of what IS, as witnesseth arising in the present moment. I didn't fully embrace the now .....fighting to not accept the things I label as "BAD" and "PAINFUL" and "Suffering".
Situations I didn't want to be in, things I didn't want to do, or people I didn't want to see or talk to.

Now it is to me a chance to practice surrendering, accepting what is and just watching, observing everything that goes on, the sensation in the body, the reaction, the happening without labeling it as good or bad. With this realization and practice, peace is there everywhere, in any situation.

I hope this help you.
Before and after there exist not one
Why attachments?

andy
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun May 04, 2008 6:46 pm

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by andy » Thu Sep 04, 2008 6:16 pm

Highly unconscious individuals? Who are you to judge other people? Look to yourself, who is the highly unconscious one? How do you know another's path? How do you know what your path is?

You come on here, posting your story and then want us to validate that story, just because "you are practicing presence" and someone else is not? Please? How egoic!
I know he is unconscious and I should forgive him for he does not know; he does not know that his ego is not him and that it is causing all this pain, but it is very hard to forgive someone who has done unspeakable things to you through mental manipulation.
This is probably more like it:
I know (I) am unconscious and I should forgive (myself) for (I) do not know; (I) do not know that (my) ego is not (me) and that it is causing all this pain, but it is very hard to forgive (myself) who has done unspeakable things to (me) through mental manipulation.

You have mentally manipulated yourself into believing you are who you think you are, yet it is not so - the result is a rejection of what is, and the result is pain and suffering.

Anything projected outwards always comes from within. Start with ourselves, not with others. This is my path, not others path. The pain I see in others is my own pain - how could it be otherwise?

User avatar
Rockchick26
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:15 pm
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by Rockchick26 » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:18 pm

I just posted a similar question,so this thread was a little helpful to me...but i still dont like the idea of avoiding people as an answer to this problem. If we avoided everyone who was unconscious and negative,in the end we would isolate ourselves which is the exact opposite of our purpose. And the reply about surrendering to everything without labeling it,thats much easier said than done,especially when it involves someone you used to love cursing you out in public and yelling lies about you. That would be majorly hard to just let pass through you. I feel like its a cop out,to just let it all go...cuz to everyone else it appears that you dont care and then you have bigger problems. I mean,what words can you possibly say in that situation that would fix everything?

And to Andy,your last post really confused me...i dont see at all where you think Buckeyedboywonder is being egoic. His ex is screaming at him,lying about him,yet he just kept walking and remained calm. It's obvious who is unconscious and who isnt.
Dream your life,then live your dream

User avatar
hello
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:29 am
Location: India

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by hello » Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:01 pm

I have some very dissimilar similar problem here.

Similar in the sense even I am a gay individual and the person who introduced me to ET is another gay individual. But we don't share a romantic relationship, so that is not a problem and in that way this post of mine is not relevant to buckeyeboywonder's.

However, the first line by buckeyeboywonder tempted me to post in this thread: "I have noticed as I have grown in presence, I find myself "further" away from others."

In my situation, this gay friend's (though he is not my boyfriend) who is truly evolved in PON (I mean what I say here) communications always appear so clinical and perfect to the point of my interpreting his behavior as "cold".

Now, this person is ALWAYS courteous, but somehow I always get a feeling that there is something about him which makes him feel inhuman and too perfect to me.

I have also noticed that the normal warmth and concern that two friends express towards each he is never able to express. I am not able to clearly express my thoughts here, but somehow I feel this guy is too perfect and clinical that I have felt like distancing myself from him, and in fact when I write this post, I am continuing this process of distancing myself from him.

The relevance to buckeyeboywonder's post and mine is that I do feel that my friend who is quite an awakened guy ( again I mean what I say here) somehow elicits a distancing reaction in me.

The difference however, is that there is absolutely no animosity between us and our relationship has always been courteous.

So, is it just the basic personality of this person or is it that all "awakened" persons so to speak are not in tune with people who are "unawakened" who in turn are the majority in this planet and as such cannot see the problems faced by the unawakened?

( I get a feeling that I have not expressed my thoughts very clearly here, but I hope some of you have understood what I am trying to say).
Shine the light of wisdom in my life of darkness, Lord.

User avatar
Rockchick26
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:15 pm
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by Rockchick26 » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:32 pm

I think i get what you are saying...those who are awakened ARE set apart from others,so naturally that will be picked up on by others. I dont see how this can be good UNLESS the other people want to become enlightened also. Otherwise they will just perceive him as like you said,perfect and clinical...almost robotlike,and they wont be able to relate to him and they'll naturally feel uncomfortable around him. Oh i cant wait until i have this all figured out LOL (i'm still pretty new to ET and enlightenment)
Dream your life,then live your dream

User avatar
hello
Posts: 37
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:29 am
Location: India

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by hello » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:21 pm

Hi, Rock you DID understand what I was trying to say, and thanks for that. In fact you explained it better than me!!!

However, I may be wrong because it could also be the basic personality of that person, because I really do not know too many people in the real world who is fully into all these things. All said and done, somehow I am continuing to feel the "distance" between him and me and have decided to keep away from him. What is most important for me than anything else is Tolle's teachings.

I have repeatedly felt distracted from the teachings by some seemingly holier than thou comments/replies given by some "senior" Tolle followers ( I perceive that even in this forum) and I have realized that I should strictly guard myself against such a negative reaction of mine.

I feel lucky that most of what Tolle has written in his books has come as a great "eye-opener" for me and I should not distract myself from my main goal, which is improving the quality of my life through Tolle's teachings, from the responses of people who could be pretentious under the garb of being Tolle disciples. In fact, I have noticed this happening with many, many devotees of different saints who rather than trying to evolve themselves more fully, act pretentious with little bit of knowledge accumulated from here and there.
Shine the light of wisdom in my life of darkness, Lord.

N64
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by N64 » Mon Sep 22, 2008 5:00 pm

I don't know if this post may sound like holier than thou


Think about it, all the reality you live in are made up of mind moments, rising and passing, it's the illusion of memory that gives the continutiy of reality. So the canned answer is to say " oh be present at the moment"

you can notice the humanity in your ex bf's screaming of "he's got aids" - the way he craves attention from other people, the way all humans love to get the attention ( or inattention) the way he overacts to situations furthermore indicating the humanity in all of us

in your case, how all this drama having a negative effect on your life - the humanity of the fact that all the humans love to live a stress free life without drama
your painful feelings of trying to defend your sense of "I" just like all the human beings.

I just approached this situation in a human perspective. more compassion practiced toward him ( well, just compassion in general) will make "your" reality a better one

Imed
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by Imed » Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:27 pm

Your name "N64" made me just think of a metaphor for life:

All of this that we call "life" is like a videogame. Most people are trapped in the video game walking around and doing all of the things that the video game allows. It is only when we realize that we are not the video game, but the one outside of the video game, that we can truly be free. We are the One observing the video game, not the character whom we think we are.

I thought this kind of applied here and it made me laugh thinking about it. It's kind of funny, but it goes deep as well. Thanks for your name N64, that's what made me think of this LOL.

Love,
Eric

N64
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:36 pm

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by N64 » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:30 pm

Actually, your being character of the videogame is part of the story. I think realization follows this path

Firstly, Mario thinks, my life sucks. I fall, turtles, weird animals, cacti and what not come hurt me. My life is an endless pursuit of rescuing the princess peach. My game life happens between the gratification of completion of a stage and the disappointment of dying of a cactus/ turtle

Then, mario becomes the observer.

The full realization comes when mario has realized there's nothing he can do about his life situation, because he's an integral part of the game. He's made up of the pixels - the same pixels that the sky, bushes, gold coins and mushrooms are made out of. It's all a "dance of pixels" if you will. But mario can move, the guy who controls mario gives it a sense of a doer- the rescuer of the princess. But upon the realization of the ultimate reality, he understands he's made of the same pixels everything of the game is made out of thus becoming an integral part of matrix.

upon realization of this, mario becomes nothing. By becoming nothing he becomes everything. Hence mario beats the game and achieves enlightenment.

Imed
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:29 am

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by Imed » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:30 pm

And Bowser is the Painbody who "on the surface level looks like" he takes peach (enlightenment) away from Mario. However, sometimes, Mario thinks he has achieved enlightenment when he saves peach, but then he is presented with a "harder mission". This is because he cannot achieve enlightenment, which is what Mario thought he had done, but will only fully "beat the game" when he realizes that he IS enlightenment.

LOL, I dunno.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6387
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Highly Unconscious Individuals - How Do You Cope With Them?

Post by Sighclone » Tue Sep 23, 2008 5:22 am

Very neat analogy in the mario game. I wrote a piece similar to that a couple of months ago:

http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... =10&t=4448

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Post Reply