Tolle Criticism

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.

Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby domokato » Tue Dec 30, 2008 2:59 am

It's in the first post of the thread linked in the first post of this thread :).

He calls himself a "'recovering' 'NOWist'". Yeah, kinda funny :)
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby pardes » Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:03 am

Ahhhhhhh "NOW" I see. Thanks.

You know, of all the groups of this kind, this one seems to be the funniest group of people.
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby Thunder2008 » Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:13 pm

mmy wrote:My own personal direct experience of what ET is pointing to will never ever waver or change based on what anyone says/thinks/feels/believes about ET.


Same with me too !
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby kiki » Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:54 pm

mmy wrote:My own personal direct experience of what ET is pointing to will never ever waver or change based on what anyone says/thinks/feels/believes about ET.


Good for you. It's amazing how many people who have only a mental conception about what this is will come out and make definite statements that counter someone else's direct experience, that counter the actual "tasting" of this. If they were to trace it back as to why it would reveal some kind of fear.
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby randomguy » Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:47 pm

(pardes) One of the draws to me about Eckhart Tolle was the fact that I have absolutely no interest in turning him into my "guru." The words he speaks warms and informs me but they seem delightfully free of needing to be attached to him with strings.


Yes. I feel similarly about Tolle.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby E1lycat » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:14 pm

Every-thing has its place.. and every-thing is honored.. even money.
ET teaches abundance.. and perhaps lives in abundance..
wonderful!

:D :D :D
I am in need of nothing but the truth

-ACIM-
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby IkeepFallingAsleep » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:32 am

Hi,
I have been away for some time but I felt a need to say something about this topic.
I think that the truth of any spiritual teaching is in the results.
I am here to testify that the ET's message has pulled me out of deep despair and hopelessness and a near suicide attempt. His teaching has given me back my Christian faith, as I can now understand the deeper, richer meaning of it. I also can now appreciate the message of other faiths as well and can see they are all saying the same thing when you get down to the basics.
Should we put him on a pedestal and form a cult? No, because that would result in the same thing we have been doing for centuries, and the result is what we look at. His message is what should be held up and how it has helped people develop spiritual richness.
Having said that, I am forever grateful for the writing of the Truth that ET has brought about into a modern language that modern people can understand.
Peace from me,
Alicat
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby kiki » Thu Jan 15, 2009 5:55 am

I am forever grateful for the writing of the Truth that ET has brought about into a modern language that modern people can understand.


Well said, Alicat. Nice to have you drop by.

k
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Re: Tolle Criticism - let them talk

Postby eagle2phoenix » Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:56 pm

Jesus Christ in his lifetime was greatly criticized. He was taunted by non-believers despite having performed great miracles. They said it was the work of the Devil. But he continued with what he was supposed to do - teach. And so he taught until the day they found him praying in the Garden. All his disciples abandoned him, even his beloved Peter who denied him 3 times.

Gautama Buddha was ridiculed many times in his lifetime. Even his own brother was known to go against him. Yet he continued with his meditation and teachings ever so humbly.

One has to recognize a teacher to know. ET is a great teacher as Osho was (and boy, was Osho criticized).

My late meditation teacher Shihan Goh once asked us "What would you do if you were to meet Jesus Christ on the road tomorrow?" Some of my fellow friends said "Bow down to him". I kept quiet. Then Shihan said "Just walk up to him and say hello. Then walk with him"

Finally, during a silent retreat last year, a Catholic priest taught us "Be still and know that I am God". Catholics are known to be conservative but here is a Canadian jesuit who is encouraging a new way of being us.

eagle2phoenix has been my username for several years now because from being a proud eagle, I fell down to earth and died, and from death, the phoenix arose.
Life is fascinating. Nature is beautiful. Live life with nature.
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby JessH » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:59 am

IkeepFallingAsleep wrote:Hi,
I have been away for some time but I felt a need to say something about this topic.
I think that the truth of any spiritual teaching is in the results.
I am here to testify that the ET's message has pulled me out of deep despair and hopelessness and a near suicide attempt. His teaching has given me back my Christian faith, as I can now understand the deeper, richer meaning of it. I also can now appreciate the message of other faiths as well and can see they are all saying the same thing when you get down to the basics.
Should we put him on a pedestal and form a cult? No, because that would result in the same thing we have been doing for centuries, and the result is what we look at. His message is what should be held up and how it has helped people develop spiritual richness.
Having said that, I am forever grateful for the writing of the Truth that ET has brought about into a modern language that modern people can understand.
Peace from me,
Alicat


Hi Alicat,

I'm glad to hear that you have come out of your depression and away from suicidal thoughts and back towards your faith in Christ. As a follower of Christ, I was interested in your comment regarding your "deeper, richer meaning" of the Christian faith. You then went on to say that you can also appreciate the message of other religions as they say the same thing. Several years ago I found myself saying the same thing: that beyond the titles and traditions of religions, they all have the same core message, thus I told myself that a passionate Christian is the same as a passionate Muslim, Hindu, New-Age spiritualist, etc. However, I found myself coming back to one verse in the New Testament, again and again, until I couldn't shake what it was really saying: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." These were Jesus' very blunt words to his disciples. I had to decide whether I believed this statement or not. If I chose to believe the words of Christ, then this statement tells me that faith in Jesus Christ alone is the only way to our Creator and a fulfilling life. I did choose to believe the words of Christ, even the ones that may seem 'intolerant', and thus I now know with all of my heart that every person needs to know Jesus. Afterall, that is the core of the Christian message!

I hope you continue on your journey and the truth of Jesus' teachings come to life to you in a real way.

Regards,
JessH
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:28 pm

JessH wrote:
I couldn't shake what it was really saying: "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." These were Jesus' very blunt words to his disciples. I had to decide whether I believed this statement or not.


These are what the Bible says Jesus' words were. Not being there personally, the rest of us must weigh these words in the light of reason and intuitiveness.

The concern with subscribing to such a belief is that it is exclusive of untold millions who have not had a Christian access to such teaching. Where do all these others go if not to the "Father"? The firey pits of hell? - no matter what the quality of their character? What you are saying is that a person born into an environment that is totally bereft of this " Bible statement of truth" has no chance of going to the "Father". "No one comes...except through me". How convenient for the Christian church to hold the only potential for salvation.

Doesn't this seem to be a great deal more religious doctrine, to keep the believers in fear of going astray, and to entice others of Christianity's specialness, than a true understanding of the nature of spiritual awakening?

What's more important - the search for God? or the search for Truth? And don't tell me they are the same. The search for God presumes a God's existance, and may never lead to truth, but may well lead to all types of religious representations. The search for Truth however will lead to God if that is the Truth.

If you are genuine in your search for Truth, you will give up your belief in God and look to life as it is. If God exists, He/She/It will be in no danger of being denied, because all honest seeking must lead to eternal Truth. On the other hand, by giving up your present belief in a religious representation of God, you are freed from its limitations and self-rituous arrogance.

And please do not quote scripture as an authority for you opinion. Truth trumps scripture no matter how strongly believed, and no matter how many people believe it.

Go directly to Source. Pray with all honesty to see the Truth as it is. Be willing to sacrafice every "thing" you believe, every "thing" you've been taught, even your very life, for direct understanding. And if new insight comes, sacrafice that as well, and then again and again, for perception that is crystalized into a definable concept will become an anchor to greater understanding. Truth is a living, flowing energy. It may be pointed to by words, but can never be held by them.

Would Jesus ask anything less than seeking the Truth? "Seek truth, and the truth will set you free".

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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby randomguy » Sun Apr 26, 2009 5:42 pm

I totally agree with WW's great post.

IkeepFallingAsleep wrote:I think that the truth of any spiritual teaching is in the results.
I am here to testify that the ET's message has pulled me out of deep despair and hopelessness and a near suicide attempt. His teaching has given me back my Christian faith, as I can now understand the deeper, richer meaning of it. I also can now appreciate the message of other faiths as well and can see they are all saying the same thing when you get down


A more global understanding and acceptance of people and life (as illustrated in the statements above) comes about from finding one's own stillness and freedom from believing unverified external thoughts or concepts.

The process of belief on faith is beautifully illustrated by JessH's post:

I had to decide whether I believed this statement or not.

What would lead me to believe that I had to decide if an idea is true? What is the emotional force behind concluding that I have to believe something? Most likely it is fear or desire. Most likely there is another belief behind the fear or desire that is causing such emotional pressure. Should that thought be questioned too and do I need to find a different piece of paper for the answer or should I ask within while in a state of stillness where acceptance and commonality between all people feels true?

If I chose to believe the words of Christ, then this statement tells me that faith in Jesus Christ alone is the only way to our Creator and a fulfilling life.

Yes, that is exactly what can happen when a thought is believed to be true. I can empower an imaginary story as true over what I actually know through experience.

I did choose to believe the words of Christ, even the ones that may seem 'intolerant', and thus I now know with all of my heart that every person needs to know Jesus.

Yes, one gets the feeling of being right. It's a nice felling, I give you that.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby Sighclone » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:07 pm

Jesus wrote not one word which appears in the Bible. Each step away from that truth requires a leap of faith to presume what someone else attributed to him is a correct understanding, interpretation and presentation. Plus, there are several languages through which the words have been translated to get to English. And 2,000 years which include the Council of Nicea.

Those are sufficient reasons for me to take the Bible as containing meaningful pointers to truth, but not the actual words of Jesus, or the literal truth of anything. We all have our favorite passages which might change through time. My two current favorites are:

Seek ye first the Kingdom of God – Matthew 6:33

The Kingdom of God is within you – Luke 17:21

Both were attributed to Jesus.

But the Bible, including the New Testament, is full of contradictions and paradoxes. This allows a big opportunity for more mere men and women to stand on podiums and type on keyboards to "guide" us to the "real meaning." Or not.

Beliefs are deeply convincing, especially when held jointly with other good people. And the wonderful Christian music is compelling and some is clearly inspired from God/Being/Source, etc.

But beliefs are mental structures, full of rigid, exclusive content. When I was an active, proselytizing Christian, and honest with myself, I struggled with a number of the basic Christian requirements of faith. I eventually left the church for a reality which is immanent and clear every day. It requires no belief beyond my own experience. It passes every test, and transcends every test.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby Tony-S-Ma » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:56 pm

Sighclone wrote:Jesus wrote not one word which appears in the Bible. Each step away from that truth requires a leap of faith to presume what someone else attributed to him is a correct understanding, interpretation and presentation. Plus, there are several languages through which the words have been translated to get to English. And 2,000 years which include the Council of Nicea.

Those are sufficient reasons for me to take the Bible as containing meaningful pointers to truth, but not the actual words of Jesus, or the literal truth of anything. We all have our favorite passages which might change through time. My two current favorites are:

Seek ye first the Kingdom of God – Matthew 6:33

The Kingdom of God is within you – Luke 17:21

Both were attributed to Jesus.

But the Bible, including the New Testament, is full of contradictions and paradoxes. This allows a big opportunity for more mere men and women to stand on podiums and type on keyboards to "guide" us to the "real meaning." Or not.

Beliefs are deeply convincing, especially when held jointly with other good people. And the wonderful Christian music is compelling and some is clearly inspired from God/Being/Source, etc.

But beliefs are mental structures, full of rigid, exclusive content. When I was an active, proselytizing Christian, and honest with myself, I struggled with a number of the basic Christian requirements of faith. I eventually left the church for a reality which is immanent and clear every day. It requires no belief beyond my own experience. It passes every test, and transcends every test.

Namaste, Andy


One needs to fully experience believing in order to transcend the mental structure of believing. Many who do not believe in any religion do not realize that they are also trapped in the same structure.
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Re: Tolle Criticism

Postby karmarider » Mon Apr 27, 2009 7:38 am

Tolle discovered the Truth accidentally. He wrote a book pointing to the Truth. He became famous, possibly because this is the time of awakening and many were ready to listen. He became rich.

Does Tolle make much more money than he needs? Of course he does. It's valid to feel he shouldn't, and it's valid to feel it's ok that he does.

Is there potential that Tolle/Oprah can become cult figures? Of course there is. Many others have... Yes, of course there will be fearful reactions to the message. There will also be zealous defensiveness. It's the same energy.

We may say that the people who have taken Tolle's message to heart are "closer" to awakening. We may also say that some of them are farther away because they are clinging to Tolle and not the Truth.

Tolle doesn't matter. It was good that he presented the message of awakening in clear, simple language of the day. I was ready to listen when I read him. Today, his message has become complicated--whether that's because of him, or his money, or Oprah, or the ardency of his followers, or the fear of his detractors--doesn't matter.

The message itself is still simple. Awakening is far simpler than the complicated movements of following or detracting Tolle.
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