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Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:50 am
by domokato
I found this highly-charged thread in a cult-recovery forum. In it a few people criticize Tolle heavily while one or two people defend him. While I was reading I felt my ego getting activated as it longed to defend Tolle against the misunderstandings of his teachings, but I just kept reading and eventually my ego lost interest :)

If anyone would like some spiritual practice in being exposed to criticism directed at your...(and I know this isn't the right word, but I can't think of a better one)...beliefs, here you go:

http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?6,54633 (I don't understand what the first four posts have to do with anything, but the rest are on-topic)

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:56 pm
by Hand
Anyone else seen this? I found it all rather depressing (or rather my ego did!) interesting though the user who was defending ET..... I suppose I can see why they would think that ET is into making money as he is so successful and the scenario of $75 x 1200 people which is quite a lot I guess but i suppose these seminars/etc cost money but he is successful and he deserves to be successful

I was wondering how come ANE was 're-released' this year - and - does it come with 30 more pages (or so I have read?)

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:14 am
by domokato
Money is form. We play in form. There's nothing bad about Eckhart having money. It doesn't say anything about his teachings or credibility. Most of the arguments used against him in that thread are very weak and written by people who seem to be biased against him for some reason.

That being said, I will now address the more relevant criticisms in this thread:

Hugh Manatee wrote:well, that idea can help you feel good when a bus splashes water on you from a dirty street. It might help induce non-reactivity. It might help as well if you're cruising around in your new BMW and maybe feeling a little guilty for the extravagance of it all. "you know, I really DO deserve the BMW...I mean, I was contemplating a Ferrari...so...yeah."
[...]
If you can't see how Tolle's "philosophy" lends itself SO readily to perversion and apathy...feel free.

Non-reaction is not apathy. Getting angry because you were splashed does not help anything. If you don't want to get splashed next time, don't walk so close to the street or whatever. And if you can't avoid getting splashed, then accept that this is so. Getting angry about it only wastes your energy.

Hugh Manatee wrote:the children starving in Darfur? right, they too are receiving (by NOT receiving) what is most beneficial for the evolution of their consciousness?

Again, Tolle does not promote apathy. If you want to help those in Darfur there is nothing stopping you. Tolle's point is that everything you come in contact with in the world is an opportunity for you to bring your consciousness to the fore. Tolle also admits that people who spend most of their time just trying to survive unfortunately don't really have any extra time to spend to try to awaken. But if we want to help them we can.

Hugh Manatee wrote:He's using a vehicle that IS TOTALLY dependent on FORM, CONTENT, STRUCTURE, DEADLINES, CONTRACTS and MORE! MORE!! MORE!!!!!

And HE wants to remove the "egoic structures" of other people? well, of course, it makes it harder to see through his absolute bullshit.

Removing the egoic structures makes it easier to see through bullshit. Yes, the vehicle he is using to promote his books is form. Everything in the world is form. We play in form. There's nothing wrong with form.

The Anticult wrote:To someone who has looked at these types of things for a very long time, its clear that Eckhart Tolle is a fraud.
An intellectual fraud who does not recognize his sources.
[...]
A scientific fraud as his comments about Evolution are simply wrong.
An ethical fraud as he is out to make a ton of cash and hides his past history, and makes false claims.

What more does the guy have to do?

He does recognize his sources. His teaching is from his own experience combined with his sources, and he presents it as such. He uses the word "evolution" but he does not mean "evolution" in the biological sense, but in the more general sense of change/progression. Making money is not bad in itself. Does Tolle really hide his past history? I always thought he said enough about it and didn't delve into details as they would probably be boring and detract from what he's trying to say.

I'll stop here. I don't feel like going through all 11 pages :)

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:20 am
by Webwanderer
I read some of this and if you look through some of the existing threads here you will find many of the same criticisms. Same O same O. It's usually about how much money ET makes. Never mind the message, "let's kill the messenger if he makes more money than me." What a terrible waste of thought energy. I Think it stems from the accusors inability to see their own true nature that makes them label ET a charleton (or worse). The facts are however, that countless beings have gained clarity with the gentle direction of ET's pointers. Some more than others, but it's an ongoing process. Few people awake from the dream fully alert. Shaking off the cobwebbs often takes a few splashes of cold water.

Those who cannot yet see the truth of their own ego identification are just not quiet ready to let it go. They will when conditions are right.

WW

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:49 am
by Sighclone
Dittoes to WW.

Andy

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:00 pm
by kiki
I don't waste my time on reading those kinds of criticisms anymore because I have tasted what ET is pointing to and nothing they say can possibly induce me to deny my own direct experience. Those kinds of criticisms appeal to those who are still hung up on using the mind rather than transcending it, or even contemplating transcending it. ET will bring clarity for those who are truly seeking and are willing to step beyond their current paradigm, but for those who are held by egoic fears such criticisms will give them justification for going no further than the box they currently find themselves in. At some point they may wake up to the fact that living in their box just doesn't bring lasting happiness and peace and then, perhaps, they will revisit such teachings as ET provides..

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:59 pm
by HermitLoon
Amen!!!! (Kiki, Andy, WW & domokato).

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:58 pm
by Sighclone
Thanks, kiki, for another pithy, personal, direct and refreshing comment...

Andy

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:38 pm
by Hand
Wow, thanks all for your inspiring thoughts. I read most of the 'criticisms' and wished I hadn't (!) your posts helped to dispel the disturbing negative stuff.

I am really inspired by ET, I keep finding things in PoN that I hadn't realised before.

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2008 2:05 am
by innerhike
I actually think people should read the criticisms.

This website rickross.com treats almost every major teacher and teaching out there as a type of a cult.

I wish that rickross would also offer themselves up for criticism.

I think that the best teachers are criticized heavily.

No website or discussion forum ought to become a hagiography or sell-job on Eckhart.

The problem arises for people who want to "believe" in Eckhart or his teachings, or any other teacher/teaching.

Sooner or later you will find that someone has a valid, good criticism of Eckhart that is hard to refute.

Sooner or later Eckhart may take an action that alienates part of the following that now exists in his name.

The best teachers or teachings free you.

Don't make Eckhart or PON yet another Jesus or Bible.

BE your true self, your fundamental nature that is not conditioned. Your true nature does not depend on Eckhart or PON. It depends on your desire for peace, for peace that is not touched by the ups and downs of pop culture and pop spirituality.

The ones who will walk away from PON or Eckhart on account of these criticisms, whether valid or not, deserve to not wake up, because frankly they are not ready.

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 7:07 am
by mmy
My own personal direct experience of what ET is pointing to will never ever waver or change based on what anyone says/thinks/feels/believes about ET.

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 5:16 pm
by Onceler
The man is not the message.

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 6:53 pm
by Sighclone
Great reminder, onceler!

Andy

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:39 pm
by erict
kiki wrote:I don't waste my time on reading those kinds of criticisms anymore because I have tasted what ET is pointing to and nothing they say can possibly induce me to deny my own direct experience. Those kinds of criticisms appeal to those who are still hung up on using the mind rather than transcending it, or even contemplating transcending it. ET will bring clarity for those who are truly seeking and are willing to step beyond their current paradigm, but for those who are held by egoic fears such criticisms will give them justification for going no further than the box they currently find themselves in. At some point they may wake up to the fact that living in their box just doesn't bring lasting happiness and peace and then, perhaps, they will revisit such teachings as ET provides..


:)

Re: Tolle Criticism

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:38 am
by Mindbridge
I was just at a "christian" website where a bunch of people were showing their anger and fear at some of what ET has said, and at Oprah for "starting a cult." I had to join their "church" to comment/defend. It was odd to come to his discussion community, and find that you all are caught up in the same vein -- defending his teaching against the critics. I had the thought that there were quite a few people angry at Jesus too....

It seems that the more simple and obvious the message, the more virulent the criticism. Personally, I can't understand the anger at him.

But, you guys have reminded me that he would probably not want us defending him. That is not living in the present. I just wanted to come here and listen to some people who have read his works or listened to him in person, talk about what meant the most to them.

So, I'll start. I am now working with young children. I am trained as a teacher and a social worker, but I have never been responsible before for children all day long. It surprised me that they all have pain bodies already, at 3, 5 and 6 years old. Tolle and Ho'oponopono have helped me tolerate, understand and soothe them.

- Nancy