innerhike wrote:2. The masses are not as foolish as elitists like UG and his followers would like to believe. People who tuned into Oprah's webcasts with ET, people who go to church, to mosques, to any kind of mass experience of devotion, worship or contemplation, these people are not inferior or idiots. There is an innate need or desire in the human being to rise to greater heights, to experience more peace, more love. How we get there, does not matter. If someone gets only entertainment from Oprah-ET webcasts, then that's fine, let's not rain on their parade. We are all at different levels, we all came here with different internal constitutions and external circumstances.
I cannot be concerned about that. Let me also emphasise I am not saying the way of others is wrong. This world is drowning in religions and spiritual traditions of all shapes and sizes. If they were doing their job then there would be no problems but the majority of people you meet and speak to are in some form of misery. Some of the biggest atrocities this world has seen - and continues to see - are a result of religion. So quite clearly something is wrong with these traditional forms of devotion and worship. They divide because the masses get stuck on the tradition itself.
So I have no interest in trying to convince anyone my way is better - that would be the same thing. Those who are blowing up themselves and others in devotion to their chosen God and those who are simply using spirituality as a form of comfort and entertainment... it's fine by me. How can it be any different? I am simply making some observations, and if even one person here can see what I'm pointing to, then those observations have done their work. It's not in my hands and it's not in your hands.
innerhike wrote:3. Full realization is a concept. You are a thinker. ET is a concept, UG is a concept. The question is not who is UG or ET, or how evolved they are. The question is who are you and what the heck are you doing here?
All I can say is I am aware that I do not know why I am here. I am like a puppet. This question popped up, I put it forward, and then I keep responding because you push my buttons. We are nothing more than sophisticated robots but we like to believe we are more than that. If we just accept we are not in control of our actions then where is the problem? Our actions are not the problem, our thoughts about our actions are.
innerhike wrote:5. So-called fully realized teachers including Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ramana Maharshi engaged in devotional practices, in all manner of rituals and cultural practices, well after their "enlightenment". To have an idea that practices are necessary, or no practices are necessary, is just an idea. Until such time that we find ourselves wandering, it is okay to look for help. Until such time it is best not to criticize the efforts of other lost souls.
Yes, but those rituals and cultural practices were part of their inherent conditioning. It was their background. What I'm trying to point out is why are we (those of us in the West anyway), trying to free ourselves from our cultural conditioning only to replace it with Eastern conditioning. Terms like 'beingness', 'presence', 'the now' and much of the other language Eckhart uses... that wasn't natural to him growing up in Germany/Spain and the UK. He has adopted those terms from his study of Eastern traditions and is then passing them onto the West. I'm not saying he shouldn't but naturally, most people in the West then marry the two and mystify it - that language = spirituality.
When they hear someone like UG using very plain, simple and coarse language they then can't deal with it. "He is saying love is selfishness" or he is denouncing this tradition or that teacher so he must still have an ego. Surely the 'Truth' is big enough to handle someone criticising another teacher. Surely it is big enough to be expressed through all sorts of language. So why then for thousands of years have we continued to use the same terms? That has just bred cliches.
We live in the 21st century, in these times, so let's talk about this in a more plain everyday manner. Then maybe that will open it up out of this whole Eastern cliched thing. I don't go to my local shops and say "this being would like a pint of milk", but when I write on here I am criticised by some as having an ego because I use "I/me" a lot? Realness. That is what I am trying to get across. You don't have to change anything - the language you use, the way you dress, what you eat. If anyone truly hears it great, if nobody does, equally fine.
eagle2phoenix wrote:I have a request for sevenworlds.
Expand your current website or start a new one/blog detailing your feelings about what we have talked about since your question started a very intriguing thread. It explains why a lot of people are/were searching for themselves, why people are lost in the world, why many are suffering from depression. You could help many who are lost and confused, feeling the way you do/did.
Your writing (words) remind me of Osho, who never minced his words. He just spoke from the heart. I am now reading his book I Teach Religiousness not Religion, and he says it like it is. It does not matter whether one likes his tone and manner but it is the truth. Except many are still blinkered by their own views about things. I read his books with an open mind and find stillness there. No comments from the mind.
I (my inner being) hope you will consider this request so that we can learn more from you (your inner being).
Love & Light
Thank you eagle.
Funny you should say that, about a year ago I did have plans to do exactly what you said. In fact, I set up a blog linked to my site and started writing whatever and whenever I felt an urge to. The problem I have (it's not really a problem) is everytime I create something (words, music) it's never long before I feel compelled to destroy it. I would post on my blog and then read them later and wonder "who the hell wrote that? what a lot of shit!". The words are dead to me as soon as I express them. So after a few months I scrapped it.
It's still a possibility though. I have written some songs in the last few weeks and I feel an urge to have the website completely redone so it's more of platform to express this 'message' in whatever shape it takes - not just limited as musicians' site - and then just see where it goes. Like I say, I can't plan anymore so I'll leave it to itself to decide how it wants to use me.
Ok, I think I've said more than enough yet again.