Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:28 pm

sulunz wrote:My one question is why did 'he' need to change his name?


I had no idea that Eckhart Tolle was not his real name; what was he called before making this change, please?

Not that it makes any difference to the value of his life's work, but it will be interesting. I have always been more interested in the messages than the messenger. For example, I cannot see any point in speculating on what kind of a person in their private lives the Master Jesus or the Prophet Mohammed, to name but two, were. As far as I am concerned, the same pricinple applies to E.T.

I visit this board from time to time because I am interested in the way people perceive and interpret the messages that come from any spiritual teacher, to see how they compare to the understanding I am finding with the help of my inner teacher and Guru - for me, the only reliable one in the whole wide world.

With love and light,
Aquarius
So long as this you fail to see:
That death precedes re-birth!
A gloomy guest you’ll always be,
Upon this darkling Earth.

Goethe
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby sevenworlds » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:27 pm

innerhike wrote:2. The masses are not as foolish as elitists like UG and his followers would like to believe. People who tuned into Oprah's webcasts with ET, people who go to church, to mosques, to any kind of mass experience of devotion, worship or contemplation, these people are not inferior or idiots. There is an innate need or desire in the human being to rise to greater heights, to experience more peace, more love. How we get there, does not matter. If someone gets only entertainment from Oprah-ET webcasts, then that's fine, let's not rain on their parade. We are all at different levels, we all came here with different internal constitutions and external circumstances.


I cannot be concerned about that. Let me also emphasise I am not saying the way of others is wrong. This world is drowning in religions and spiritual traditions of all shapes and sizes. If they were doing their job then there would be no problems but the majority of people you meet and speak to are in some form of misery. Some of the biggest atrocities this world has seen - and continues to see - are a result of religion. So quite clearly something is wrong with these traditional forms of devotion and worship. They divide because the masses get stuck on the tradition itself.

So I have no interest in trying to convince anyone my way is better - that would be the same thing. Those who are blowing up themselves and others in devotion to their chosen God and those who are simply using spirituality as a form of comfort and entertainment... it's fine by me. How can it be any different? I am simply making some observations, and if even one person here can see what I'm pointing to, then those observations have done their work. It's not in my hands and it's not in your hands.

innerhike wrote:3. Full realization is a concept. You are a thinker. ET is a concept, UG is a concept. The question is not who is UG or ET, or how evolved they are. The question is who are you and what the heck are you doing here?


All I can say is I am aware that I do not know why I am here. I am like a puppet. This question popped up, I put it forward, and then I keep responding because you push my buttons. We are nothing more than sophisticated robots but we like to believe we are more than that. If we just accept we are not in control of our actions then where is the problem? Our actions are not the problem, our thoughts about our actions are.

innerhike wrote:5. So-called fully realized teachers including Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ramana Maharshi engaged in devotional practices, in all manner of rituals and cultural practices, well after their "enlightenment". To have an idea that practices are necessary, or no practices are necessary, is just an idea. Until such time that we find ourselves wandering, it is okay to look for help. Until such time it is best not to criticize the efforts of other lost souls.


Yes, but those rituals and cultural practices were part of their inherent conditioning. It was their background. What I'm trying to point out is why are we (those of us in the West anyway), trying to free ourselves from our cultural conditioning only to replace it with Eastern conditioning. Terms like 'beingness', 'presence', 'the now' and much of the other language Eckhart uses... that wasn't natural to him growing up in Germany/Spain and the UK. He has adopted those terms from his study of Eastern traditions and is then passing them onto the West. I'm not saying he shouldn't but naturally, most people in the West then marry the two and mystify it - that language = spirituality.

When they hear someone like UG using very plain, simple and coarse language they then can't deal with it. "He is saying love is selfishness" or he is denouncing this tradition or that teacher so he must still have an ego. Surely the 'Truth' is big enough to handle someone criticising another teacher. Surely it is big enough to be expressed through all sorts of language. So why then for thousands of years have we continued to use the same terms? That has just bred cliches.

We live in the 21st century, in these times, so let's talk about this in a more plain everyday manner. Then maybe that will open it up out of this whole Eastern cliched thing. I don't go to my local shops and say "this being would like a pint of milk", but when I write on here I am criticised by some as having an ego because I use "I/me" a lot? Realness. That is what I am trying to get across. You don't have to change anything - the language you use, the way you dress, what you eat. If anyone truly hears it great, if nobody does, equally fine.

eagle2phoenix wrote:I have a request for sevenworlds.

Expand your current website or start a new one/blog detailing your feelings about what we have talked about since your question started a very intriguing thread. It explains why a lot of people are/were searching for themselves, why people are lost in the world, why many are suffering from depression. You could help many who are lost and confused, feeling the way you do/did.

Your writing (words) remind me of Osho, who never minced his words. He just spoke from the heart. I am now reading his book I Teach Religiousness not Religion, and he says it like it is. It does not matter whether one likes his tone and manner but it is the truth. Except many are still blinkered by their own views about things. I read his books with an open mind and find stillness there. No comments from the mind.

I (my inner being) hope you will consider this request so that we can learn more from you (your inner being).

Love & Light


Thank you eagle.

Funny you should say that, about a year ago I did have plans to do exactly what you said. In fact, I set up a blog linked to my site and started writing whatever and whenever I felt an urge to. The problem I have (it's not really a problem) is everytime I create something (words, music) it's never long before I feel compelled to destroy it. I would post on my blog and then read them later and wonder "who the hell wrote that? what a lot of shit!". The words are dead to me as soon as I express them. So after a few months I scrapped it.

It's still a possibility though. I have written some songs in the last few weeks and I feel an urge to have the website completely redone so it's more of platform to express this 'message' in whatever shape it takes - not just limited as musicians' site - and then just see where it goes. Like I say, I can't plan anymore so I'll leave it to itself to decide how it wants to use me.

Ok, I think I've said more than enough yet again.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby James » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:30 pm

Aquarius wrote:
I had no idea that Eckhart Tolle was not his real name; what was he called before making this change, please?


Ulrich Tolle, he changed his first name, presumably in honor of the German Christian mystic, Meister Eckhart.

But Tolle has been called many other names since then :lol:

To add, as the saying goes: "No good deed goes unpunished".

Aquarius wrote:
I have always been more interested in the messages than the messenger.


I fully agree

Not much has changed since the days of Jesus, we still have trouble tolerating anyone that thinks differently.

A friend used to say "if Jesus came back today, he would be right back up on that cross".
Maybe, maybe not, at least not in the literal sense; but figuratively speaking, it makes a good point.

james

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To know yet to think that one does not know
is the best.

Not to know yet to think that one knows
will put one in difficulty.

~Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby randomguy » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:31 pm

The weight of a massive snow storm tore the back porch cover from my house. When the time came to clean up the wreckage, a man with a truck noticed from the street, stopped and offered to help demolish and haul away the material for a fee. I agreed and we got to work. This man worked hard with a smile and spoke for several hours non stop about Christ. He pounded with a sledge hammer, pried and cut all while spreading the word he was compelled to speak. I paid him and off he went.

Did he teach me anything? Sure. And I appreciated our time demolishing stuff. The message of his words weren't important and they contained no pointers for me. Was he open to learn? I don't know. Maybe he wasn't looking to. That didn't matter either.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby James » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:41 pm

Randomguy said:
Did he teach me anything? Sure. And I appreciated our time demolishing stuff. The message of his words weren't important

I've been in similar situations, I find I still can appreciate someone's presence, without minding the words that they speak. There can be a connection, since I am he and he is me. I don't always experience it that way, but when I do it is beautiful.

james
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby lucy » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:56 pm

Is Eckhart fully realized? No.
We all know that a separate individual can never be realized. Is the Oneness moving through Eckhart fully realized? Of course.
Sevenworlds, with all due respect, despite what you say, it seems to me that you are asking this question as a separte individual, if this question
arose spontaneously in the Oneness that you are without involvement of a separte self the question would probably not have been energized.
.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby doug » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:04 pm

lucy wrote:Is Eckhart fully realized? No.
We all know that a separate individual can never be realized.
.


ET explaines it similarly in a Trinity interview...the interviewer seemed surprise to hear him say that he was not enlightened, that no one is, but then her being surprised was just my perception. She may not have been surprised at all.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:08 pm

lucy wrote:Is Eckhart fully realized? No.
We all know that a separate individual can never be realized. Is the Oneness moving through Eckhart fully realized? Of course.
Sevenworlds, with all due respect, despite what you say, it seems to me that you are asking this question as a separte individual, if this question
arose spontaneously in the Oneness that you are without involvement of a separte self the question would probably not have been energized.
.


Interesting response Lucy of course in the ultimate your 100% correct the reason being there is no seperate person to start with.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:32 pm

I am disappointed that Eckhart merely changed his first name; I always had a sneaking suspicion that he might have changed his surname, too. Eckhart or rather Ulrich, der Tolle - the fantastic one, that's what his name would mean in that context in German - that might have sounded good in his imagination before his rise to fame and fortune began. Hm!

With love and light,
Aquarius
Last edited by aquarius123esoteric on Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
So long as this you fail to see:
That death precedes re-birth!
A gloomy guest you’ll always be,
Upon this darkling Earth.

Goethe
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby eagle2phoenix » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:24 am

Aquarius, what's in a name? Does it make you know it better? Instead look into the being.

While all of us are light beings, some of us will shine brighter than others. For me, at times, my light shines bright. In others, it dims a little. In my depression, it is pitch black. Teachers tend to shine bright most of the time. When Osho was alive, his followers would be overwhelmed by his very presence that they just go into stillness. My own experience tells me that when we are meditating with a master, the light is so brilliant and warm that it radiates in the entire room, resulting in absolute calmness, peace and love. This I thank Master Rochelle Leclerq from South Africa, wherever she may be now.

There are times when I go deep into meditation at home, there are similar experiences but not as vibrantly alive.

Love & Light
Life is fascinating. Nature is beautiful. Live life with nature.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 4:50 am

eagle2phoenix wrote: My own experience tells me that when we are meditating with a master, the light is so brilliant and warm that it radiates in the entire room, resulting in absolute calmness, peace and love.

Love & Light


It is so though I never felt this from anyone in the US or from ET.
I did feel it with some Indian masters and also with Satya Sai Baba .
The same with Papaji even though the room was filled and external noise of all kind a strange but very welcoming stillness and peace was there.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby sevenworlds » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:42 pm

lucy wrote:Is Eckhart fully realized? No.
We all know that a separate individual can never be realized. Is the Oneness moving through Eckhart fully realized? Of course.
Sevenworlds, with all due respect, despite what you say, it seems to me that you are asking this question as a separte individual, if this question
arose spontaneously in the Oneness that you are without involvement of a separte self the question would probably not have been energized.
.


I agree. Language is divisive by it's very nature. Anytime you speak of this it gives the impression of two - ie. an individual who can be fully realized.

Who can really say what will be energized out of that state? UG had to give up doing formal talks after his 'calamity' because he could no longer formulate the questions necessary in his own head. I recently watched Mooji being interviewed and he had to keep prompting the host to ask him a fresh question. He similarly couldn't speak of this without stimulus. Yet Eckhart is able to write two books and sit on a stage and talk for hours without any external agency prompting him.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:28 pm

‘what's in a name? Does it make you know it better? Instead look into the being.’

Dear Friend – that’s precisely what I am doing and what all my work is about. If you were familiar with it, you might have noticed that my note was meant tongue in cheek.

With love and light,
Aquarius
So long as this you fail to see:
That death precedes re-birth!
A gloomy guest you’ll always be,
Upon this darkling Earth.

Goethe
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:38 pm

sevenworlds wrote:
I recently watched Mooji being interviewed and he had to keep prompting the host to ask him a fresh question. He similarly couldn't speak of this without stimulus. Yet Eckhart is able to write two books and sit on a stage and talk for hours without any external agency prompting him.


Hi 7,

Interesting point so what does that tell you. I am asking because I really do now know.
Are you making a point that because ET can speaking or just keep talking without being ask anything that he is more awaken or enlighten than Mooji? Ids that your point?
thanks
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby sevenworlds » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:11 pm

Hi Randji,

I'm not really making a point there, simply an observation. Though I would be leaning towards the other way if I had to commit. When the desire to change yourself disappears then you have no desire to change the world, to free anybody else. Which is how it appears to be in UG and Mooji. If someone comes with a question they will respond but they cannot simply get up and speak to the world about this because they don't see anything there to be changed. This has resonated with my experience for a while now because I am left in a situation where I am wondering what to do now. If this had been any other kind of experience I should have been writing songs and on a mission trying to spread the 'message' to the world but even that isn't really there anymore. Strangely, it doesn't worry me, it's just slightly bewildering. I'm 29, what the hell do I do now? Songs still occasionally come but I can't put together a masterplan to release and market them. In fact, at the moment I've been playing with the idea of just sticking them up for free download and seeing what happens.

So I can totally relate to UG not being able to give formal talks. I'm not saying Eckhart shouldn't be capable of being inspired off his own back to write books and talk but this is where it gets tricky because many are doing that and have built up companies and organisations around this when it is really about them. Even the subtlest yet best intended movement to save/change the world in some way has a "you" behind it.
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