Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:44 pm

Dear Friends - does it really matter whether Eckhart is FULLY realised, whether you are or I am? We are what we are at any given moment and the way I see it, God and the Angels alone know where exactly each one of us at present in our spiritual development. With love - Aquarius
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby sevenworlds » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:17 pm

You say that Aquarius, yet if it doesn't matter why are you on this forum? That means this is just another form of entertainment, no different from going to the pub, watching tv, or anything else we do to amuse ourselves. That is perfectly acceptable to me but can you honestly say your reasons for being here are no different to those activities?
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:34 pm

aquarius123esoteric wrote:Dear Friends - does it really matter whether Eckhart is FULLY realised, whether you are or I am? We are what we are at any given moment and the way I see it, God and the Angels alone know where exactly each one of us at present in our spiritual development. With love - Aquarius


Oh please if you only knew..I will try to help repeat I Am that I Am..
No disrespect I live God and the Angels along with Bugs Bunny, road runner, Batman just to name a few.
Peace
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Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby mistral » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:34 pm

I have a good one here from the 'guy' that says things 'best' for me...

"Every teacher, book, writer, practitioner, sage, guru or peanut vendor, by whatever name, title or label they go by, is an aspect of the Awareness (Identity) "we" are. We take the book from the shelf most likely to render a specific service at a given moment. Exactly so, we have appeared to go to the philosophy, teacher, church, friend, stranger or peanut vendor that has unfolded as sufficient for the moment--but that philosophy, teacher, church, friend or stranger is WITHIN the awareness WE are. So is the peanut vendor. We are forever looking at our Self.".....William Samuel (1968)

www.williamsamuel.com (Though not strictly speaking a teacher of Advaita, he taught non-duality in the United States until his death in 1996.)

and a "Here Here" to Randji
DWBH1953 wrote:I live God and the Angels along with Bugs Bunny, road runner, Batman just to name a few.
Peace


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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:46 pm

mistral wrote:I have a good one here from the 'guy' that says things 'best' for me...

"Every teacher, book, writer, practitioner, sage, guru or peanut vendor, by whatever name, title or label they go by, is an aspect of the Awareness (Identity) "we" are. We take the book from the shelf most likely to render a specific service at a given moment. Exactly so, we have appeared to go to the philosophy, teacher, church, friend, stranger or peanut vendor that has unfolded as sufficient for the moment--but that philosophy, teacher, church, friend or stranger is WITHIN the awareness WE are. So is the peanut vendor. We are forever looking at our Self.".....William Samuel (1968)

http://www.williamsamuel.com (Though not strictly speaking a teacher of Advaita, he taught non-duality in the United States until his death in 1996.)

and a "Here Here" to Randji
DWBH1953 wrote:I live God and the Angels along with Bugs Bunny, road runner, Batman just to name a few.
Peace


Hi and thanks for bringing Willian Samuel to the board. He was a amazing person who preached non duality way way before what you see in todays world.
Peace
Randji

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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby doug » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:58 pm

little to add here except that I find agreement with those that said...

we can't tell

it doesn't matter

the PON words have helped

peace is within Now and only Now

the teacher and the taught are the teaching
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby heidi » Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:03 am

I second that, Doug. :)
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:49 pm

It seems a strange question to me, dear Friend. Why should I be interested in knowing whether Eckhart is fully realised or not - unless maybe I want to take him down a peg or two - unless I want to discredit his credibility in some way or satisfy MY ego by allocating him a lower level of spiritual awareness than I have, maybe? In reply to all those things I am happy to say: that's not what I am. I am the I AM - the same as you are - the same as Eckhart is - the same as everybody else is. I have no problems with that, have you?

With love and light,
Aquarius
So long as this you fail to see:
That death precedes re-birth!
A gloomy guest you’ll always be,
Upon this darkling Earth.

Goethe
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby sevenworlds » Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:56 am

aquarius123esoteric wrote:I am the I AM - the same as you are - the same as Eckhart is - the same as everybody else is. I have no problems with that, have you?


Do you really know that DIRECTLY for yourself or are you merely repeating a phrase you believe in or an experience you have memorised?

I said right from the beginning I did not know why this question came up and why I felt compelled to post it. I can't even remember exactly what I said initially and I'm not interested in going back to check. I've also stated a few times that I have no desire to discredit Eckhart. I fail to see why this question is any stranger than any other question. Someone questions Eckhart's state. Others jump to his defence. To me, both are equally acceptable or pointless, depending on the way you want to look at it.

The very fact this post has generated so much interest and discussion says a lot. If the question is not valid, then why have so many here taken an interest? Whether your response is positive or negative, you are still interested in the question. If it had no meaning for you at all you would have ignored this topic completely.

I meant it when I said I didn't know why I was here posting. Some have said they felt it brought up a few things. Maybe that's all it's been for. You limit it if you just look at the initial question. Each moment along the way is potential for someone to discover something they may otherwise not have stumbled upon. Like everything in life, there is meaning for those who find meaning.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:14 am

sevenworlds wrote:
aquarius123esoteric wrote:I am the I AM - the same as you are - the same as Eckhart is - the same as everybody else is. I have no problems with that, have you?


Do you really know that DIRECTLY for yourself or are you merely repeating a phrase you believe in or an experience you have memorised?

I said right from the beginning I did not know why this question came up and why I felt compelled to post it. I can't even remember exactly what I said initially and I'm not interested in going back to check. I've also stated a few times that I have no desire to discredit Eckhart. I fail to see why this question is any stranger than any other question. Someone questions Eckhart's state. Others jump to his defence. To me, both are equally acceptable or pointless, depending on the way you want to look at it.

The very fact this post has generated so much interest and discussion says a lot. If the question is not valid, then why have so many here taken an interest? Whether your response is positive or negative, you are still interested in the question. If it had no meaning for you at all you would have ignored this topic completely.

I meant it when I said I didn't know why I was here posting. Some have said they felt it brought up a few things. Maybe that's all it's been for. You limit it if you just look at the initial question. Each moment along the way is potential for someone to discover something they may otherwise not have stumbled upon. Like everything in life, there is meaning for those who find meaning.


Hi 7,

I am happy you brought the question to the table, also I need to say these aquarian folks seem more like trolls to me as there are many other boards where they can play and be accepted more than a non duality board.
My feelings around ET is that he is here for the purpose of bringing non dualty to the mainstream as far as being enlighten really no one can say yes or no about another.
ETcertainly has a good way with words in describing non duality.
I have seen him in person a few times and I have seen Ayda, Papaji. Gangaji,and many others and all I can say is that ET to me does not have the same vibe as others I mentioned, what does that mean who knows it just is what it IS.
Cheers
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby innerhike » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:14 am

Here's my take on this matter:

1. People start behaving like the teachers they claim to be inspired by. UG acted rather erratically and used cuss words and frequently denigrated people's spiritual paths and other teachers. First he had the benefit of some amazing teachers like Ramana, JK and Sivananda. Later he devalued them, even insulted them, and said he came to whatever state he was in by himself. In India we call this "spitting in the very plate you are eating from".

2. The masses are not as foolish as elitists like UG and his followers would like to believe. People who tuned into Oprah's webcasts with ET, people who go to church, to mosques, to any kind of mass experience of devotion, worship or contemplation, these people are not inferior or idiots. There is an innate need or desire in the human being to rise to greater heights, to experience more peace, more love. How we get there, does not matter. If someone gets only entertainment from Oprah-ET webcasts, then that's fine, let's not rain on their parade. We are all at different levels, we all came here with different internal constitutions and external circumstances.

3. Full realization is a concept. You are a thinker. ET is a concept, UG is a concept. The question is not who is UG or ET, or how evolved they are. The question is who are you and what the heck are you doing here?

4. Most teachers and lineages seem to love talking about how they have it figured out, while others don't. If you can drop these criticisms that they have of other traditions, the quality of their teaching/beingness rises greatly.

5. So-called fully realized teachers including Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ramana Maharshi engaged in devotional practices, in all manner of rituals and cultural practices, well after their "enlightenment". To have an idea that practices are necessary, or no practices are necessary, is just an idea. Until such time that we find ourselves wandering, it is okay to look for help. Until such time it is best not to criticize the efforts of other lost souls.

I have no idea how evolved ET or UG are. I do know that while I find ET quite soothing and on the mark, I find UG quite ridiculous, just as I find the Iranian mullahs quite ridiculous. But that not mean it is right or wrong, or more mature, or more this or that.

I do know that we should let people follow what they feel is right for them.

The lessons for one person may not abstract or apply to another.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:30 am

innerhike wrote:Here's my take on this matter:

1. People start behaving like the teachers they claim to be inspired by. UG acted rather erratically and used cuss words and frequently denigrated people's spiritual paths and other teachers. First he had the benefit of some amazing teachers like Ramana, JK and Sivananda. Later he devalued them, even insulted them, and said he came to whatever state he was in by himself. In India we call this "spitting in the very plate you are eating from".

2. The masses are not as foolish as elitists like UG and his followers would like to believe. People who tuned into Oprah's webcasts with ET, people who go to church, to mosques, to any kind of mass experience of devotion, worship or contemplation, these people are not inferior or idiots. There is an innate need or desire in the human being to rise to greater heights, to experience more peace, more love. How we get there, does not matter. If someone gets only entertainment from Oprah-ET webcasts, then that's fine, let's not rain on their parade. We are all at different levels, we all came here with different internal constitutions and external circumstances.

3. Full realization is a concept. You are a thinker. ET is a concept, UG is a concept. The question is not who is UG or ET, or how evolved they are. The question is who are you and what the heck are you doing here?

4. Most teachers and lineages seem to love talking about how they have it figured out, while others don't. If you can drop these criticisms that they have of other traditions, the quality of their teaching/beingness rises greatly.

5. So-called fully realized teachers including Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ramana Maharshi engaged in devotional practices, in all manner of rituals and cultural practices, well after their "enlightenment". To have an idea that practices are necessary, or no practices are necessary, is just an idea. Until such time that we find ourselves wandering, it is okay to look for help. Until such time it is best not to criticize the efforts of other lost souls.

I have no idea how evolved ET or UG are. I do know that while I find ET quite soothing and on the mark, I find UG quite ridiculous, just as I find the Iranian mullahs quite ridiculous. But that not mean it is right or wrong, or more mature, or more this or that.

I do know that we should let people follow what they feel is right for them.

The lessons for one person may not abstract or apply to another.


Well said, UG used the technique of spitting on the plate to his whole advantage as now he had his own followers in no time flat they became the anti-guru disclipes. It was the right move or play for him.
After spending over 30 years with gurus, teachers etc I have found that they are just as political as our own politicians. And all the time they are speaking of renouncing the ego!
Thank you for your sharing.
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby sulunz » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:46 am

My one question is why did 'he' need to change his name? Surely this is an ego action. If there is no where we need to go, nothing we need to do, just be in the present moment. Surely changing your name to Eckhart Tolle from an already perfectly acceptable name is unnecessary. Does he feel he is the reincarnation perhaps of the 13th century philosopher and mystic, Meister Eckhart. Whatever the answer it does not take away from his profound and deep teachings.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby eagle2phoenix » Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:09 am

I have a request for sevenworlds.

Expand your current website or start a new one/blog detailing your feelings about what we have talked about since your question started a very intriguing thread. It explains why a lot of people are/were searching for themselves, why people are lost in the world, why many are suffering from depression. You could help many who are lost and confused, feeling the way you do/did.

Your writing (words) remind me of Osho, who never minced his words. He just spoke from the heart. I am now reading his book I Teach Religiousness not Religion, and he says it like it is. It does not matter whether one likes his tone and manner but it is the truth. Except many are still blinkered by their own views about things. I read his books with an open mind and find stillness there. No comments from the mind.

I (my inner being) hope you will consider this request so that we can learn more from you (your inner being).

Love & Light
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby eagle2phoenix » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:08 am

Something to share from Osho's I Teach Religiousness not Religion.

If you live with alertness, you live rightly.
If you live in imitation (following others), you live wrongly.
To me there is only one sin:
And that is not to be yourself.
And to me there is only one virtue, and that is to know yourself.

If you can become Adam and Eve again..., if you are Adam and Eve, just born, just getting out of the garden of Eden - nobody to ask what to do, nobody to ask what discipline is right - what are you going to do?
Do That!

You have never left the Garden of Eden. Everything is within, there is nothing without. There are no boundaries to reality.
It is a simple fact: you are still in the Garden of Eden, you have just fallen asleep.
Your sleep consists of your mind, of your desires, your dreams, your ambitions, your motivations.
Once you drop all this crap, suddenly you awake and you will find yourself in the Garden of Eden.
And the Garden of Eden does not belong to God... It belongs to everyone, to every living entity.
Life is fascinating. Nature is beautiful. Live life with nature.
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