rain gods and egos

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+Jim+
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rain gods and egos

Post by +Jim+ » Tue Feb 10, 2009 10:28 am

Our ancient ancestors are reported to have attributed phenomena that they didn't understand, to Gods. They believed that it rained when God decided, thunder and lightening were also playthings of the Gods. The list, apparently, is a very long one.

These beliefs actually affected the way the ancients experienced the world.
People developed rituals and incantations that were supposed to placate these Gods.

Today, with new information and discoveries, we understand how the weather is created by the water cycle etc.

To explore and understand the water cycle, does one have to kill the rain God, die to the rain God, or have some great philosophy that explains away the rain God? Obviously not. When one simply sees how the water cycle works, the belief in the rain God ends.

It's important to note that the rain God doesn't die, isn't banished, doesn't have to be overcome through some exotic or esoteric practice etc. etc. because the rain God never existed.

So although the rain God was believed to exist, was credited with powers, and was supposed to be placated by certain offerings and people's lives were actually affected, none of it was based on what was true, actual, real.

The same applies to the ‘ego’.
Belief in the ego has affected peoples lives for countless years. One could even consider the ego to be the thought God.
But, through investigation and discovery of the nature of thought, a new understanding of life has emerged and the ego is seen to be just an image, an idea, a belief.
When the nature of thought is realised, the belief in the ego ends. The ego doesn't have to be conquered, thought doesn't have to end/stop, one doesn't have to die, the ego doesn't have to die, great philosophies/rituals/practices/austerities don't have to be practiced, one doesn't have to try to observe the ego, weed out the ego, overcome the ego, etc. etc. because the ego never existed.

So although the ego was believed to exist, was credited with powers, and was supposed to be placated by certain offerings and people's lives were actually affected, none of it was based on what was true, actual, real.

With the discovery of the nature of thought, the illusion of ego ends, the illusion of duality ends, the illusion of emotional suffering ends.

Today there are still people who believe in a God or Gods that make the world the way it is - there are also people who still believe in ego.
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


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randomguy
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by randomguy » Tue Feb 10, 2009 3:51 pm

Great analogy. There is a lot of language that personifies the ego. For example, the ego wants control. Or that wasn't really me, it was my ego talking. (Which can be effective descriptions when not taken too literally.) This post offers a nice comparison to remind us not to place too much emphasis on a little imaginary controlling deity within our own mind.

When ego is defined as a verb, the act of resisting reality by identifying with thought, it feels more accurate.

Tolle's use of the term egoic mind is an effective description. As a term it seems to bundle the negative thoughts that invite resistance to reality with the promise of an emotionally empowered, separate self. At least that's how I take it.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

Glycine
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by Glycine » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:35 pm

+Jim+ wrote:With the discovery of the nature of thought, the illusion of ego ends...
Interesting post, +Jim+.
Could you tell us what is the nature of thought? (you didn't mention it, and it would be important)

doug
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by doug » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:23 pm

whether ego is only a word or a belief may be interesing conversation...

the explanation of ego in the ET books as well as from other spiritual teaches has helped me imeasurably in understanding why people (and myself) do the things they do. It has also helped me learn to be present and experienve the Now.

science for decades has studied atoms and smaller particles "believed" to exist. unfortunately we can't see them, the closer we get the less "visible" they become and the fact that nothing is actually there is what the mystery is....

it's all very beautiful, isn't it...and we are part of it!!!...just amazing!!!

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+Jim+
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by +Jim+ » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:03 am

randomguy wrote:Great analogy. There is a lot of language that personifies the ego. For example, the ego wants control. Or that wasn't really me, it was my ego talking. (Which can be effective descriptions when not taken too literally.) This post offers a nice comparison to remind us not to place too much emphasis on a little imaginary controlling deity within our own mind.

When ego is defined as a verb, the act of resisting reality by identifying with thought, it feels more accurate.
Why place any emphasis on an imaginary controlling deity?
That's like saying 'don't place too much emphasis on rain gods'!
There are thoughts that are taken as a map (or descriptor) of reality when in fact they have no basis in reality at all - this is when the greatest confusion arises.

'Egoing' or 'egoic thinking' as a verb is much closer to reality.
Glycine wrote:
+Jim+ wrote:With the discovery of the nature of thought, the illusion of ego ends...
Interesting post, +Jim+.
Could you tell us what is the nature of thought? (you didn't mention it, and it would be important)
It's probably one of the most important discoveries that can be made, but one really has to discover this for oneself - any second-hand answer will do a disservice.
You may find it helpful to read this thread http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... f=8&t=4344
doug wrote:whether ego is only a word or a belief may be interesing conversation...
When it's just an idea then yes, opinions ping pong back and forward and some may find that interesting...... but when it is seen as an unequivocal fact - that changes everything.
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


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Sighclone
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by Sighclone » Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:27 pm

If the ego is not real, then what is that impulse, that life energy inside of me that wants to trot out all my quotes from the famous nondualists who talk about the ego, to argue with you?

Let's call it the "notego." My "notego" is a powerful force inside of me. It shows up when somebody insults me, too. It makes me want to punch them.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

randomguy
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by randomguy » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:14 pm

+Jim+ wrote:Why place any emphasis on an imaginary controlling deity?
I hear what you are saying, but I also recognize that communication through language often takes shortcuts in accuracy. Saying the ego is present can easily communicate a point when it isn't the main topic of discussion.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

doug
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by doug » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:19 pm

it's easier for me to see "having an ego" sort of like "having a cold"...a condition with attributes and symptoms

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by DWBH1953 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:37 pm

Sighclone wrote:If the ego is not real, then what is that impulse, that life energy inside of me that wants to trot out all my quotes from the famous nondualists who talk about the ego, to argue with you?

Let's call it the "notego." My "notego" is a powerful force inside of me. It shows up when somebody insults me, too. It makes me want to punch them.

Namaste, Andy
Really Andy these are just words working as they may to define a feeling you have.
think for a moment what you just said..the energy inside me correct?
Ok how did you know to say that, it was by a feeling was it not.
What came first the thought of wanting to trot out or the feeling of it?
Not a trick question. I can only answer for myself for me it would be a feeling followed by a thought. So then the question would be what is behind and creating this feeling?
It is not a thought of wanting to be better than you, etc etc because the feeling came first then what is it? I would say it is really something inside you or I that is not in harmony, I guess that is as close as I could come, something is off someplace and why?
I would project this to be that we are seeking Oneness our real birth right and we or I are not there yet, we still have this body to deal with and we react. So be that as it may if it is a ego a thought or a feeling because of not in aliment it is something that needs to be dealt with. For myself when feelings like this come up I simply let them be and stay present in the moment and most of the times it works and sometimes it does not and I let it get the better of me. So with all these words I am trying to say that we have this issue only because we are having a hard time just to be present in the moment.
Peace
Randi
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by Sighclone » Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:46 pm

Randi -

I'm not saying I don't have tools to transcend the "ego" or "notego." Of course I do. I wrote that post that way because it is how most people who have never heard of Eckhart Tolle understand their ego. Can someone explain to me the phenomenon called "Donald Trump" without invoking the concept of ego. Ego is just a word used to describe a set of selfish behaviors. But that set of behaviors, be they thoughts or actions or feelings is very obvious, and to me and a jillion other people, very, very real.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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DWBH1953
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by DWBH1953 » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:23 pm

Sighclone wrote:Randi -

I'm not saying I don't have tools to transcend the "ego" or "notego." Of course I do. I wrote that post that way because it is how most people who have never heard of Eckhart Tolle understand their ego. Can someone explain to me the phenomenon called "Donald Trump" without invoking the concept of ego. Ego is just a word used to describe a set of selfish behaviors. But that set of behaviors, be they thoughts or actions or feelings is very obvious, and to me and a jillion other people, very, very real.

Namaste, Andy
No of course Andy it is something for sure but it is just a something that is all, you seem to give it some kind of power over other just somethings. To be honest I do not see how that can be it is just a something among jillions of other somethings we have in this world of make believe. It is only you well I am speaking generic here but it is only you who is feeding this something and making your own monsters can you see that?

There has been a few times in history where discovered were small tribes of people living outside of what we call the civil world for thousands of years as a matter of fact there is one in South America now in these tribes you go and try to find this ego you are speaking of. Andy it is not there, not a bit, people have no idea what it means to have something for just yourself, they share everything, there is no Chief,no Commander no nothing, everyone just gets along sharing everything for the whole, men with other women and women with other men not a bit jealously now you tell me why this is? It is very simple they do not have a ego and if they did it is not feed at all. There has been numerous examples of this in the world. So it only appears to have all this power because you give the power to it if not it would just be another something that is all.
that is my take on this whole thing called ego.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by +Jim+ » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:45 am

Sighclone wrote:If the ego is not real, then what is that impulse, that life energy inside of me that wants to trot out all my quotes from the famous nondualists who talk about the ego, to argue with you?

Let's call it the "notego." My "notego" is a powerful force inside of me. It shows up when somebody insults me, too. It makes me want to punch them.

Namaste, Andy
That impulse is created by thoughts that haven't been investigated to see if they're really true.
You see, 35 years of Transcendental Meditation and a bookshelf full of books won't serve you here.
You have to make a very real investigation for yourself and not just trot out second-hand knowledge.

Do you know that a computer can be programmed to trot out answers and quotes...... ?
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


http://simplyenlightening.wordpress.com/about/

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DWBH1953
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:57 am

+Jim+ wrote:
Sighclone wrote:If the ego is not real, then what is that impulse, that life energy inside of me that wants to trot out all my quotes from the famous nondualists who talk about the ego, to argue with you?

Let's call it the "notego." My "notego" is a powerful force inside of me. It shows up when somebody insults me, too. It makes me want to punch them.

Namaste, Andy
That impulse is created by thoughts that haven't been investigated to see if they're really true.
You see, 35 years of Transcendental Meditation and a bookshelf full of books won't serve you here.
You have to make a very real investigation for yourself and not just trot out second-hand knowledge.

Do you know that a computer can be programmed to trot out answers and quotes...... ?
Not to get in the middle of you two but Jim your saying exactly what I just said about the ego it is just another something thing and if left alone and not given any power it is just another thought as your saying here. Is that not correct?
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by +Jim+ » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:05 pm

DWBH1953 wrote: Not to get in the middle of you two but Jim your saying exactly what I just said about the ego it is just another something thing and if left alone and not given any power it is just another thought as your saying here. Is that not correct?
Peace
Randji
No Randji, it's not a thing to be left alone and not given power.
It doesn't exist outside of thought (often a multitudinous muddle of thoughts).

These aren't opinions or intellectual ideas - these are observations.
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


http://simplyenlightening.wordpress.com/about/

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DWBH1953
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:17 pm

+Jim+ wrote:
DWBH1953 wrote: Not to get in the middle of you two but Jim your saying exactly what I just said about the ego it is just another something thing and if left alone and not given any power it is just another thought as your saying here. Is that not correct?
Peace
Randji
No Randji, it's not a thing to be left alone and not given power.
It doesn't exist outside of thought (often a multitudinous muddle of thoughts).

These aren't opinions or intellectual ideas - these are observations.
Well does it matter if you think it does not exist therefore it is nothing to have a effect or it is just look at it as a thought that comes up and do not give it any power. Jim I think we are saying the same thing here. When I say something to you as a something in this case I mean a thought that comes up. Because if you look at it that is what it is. Example I have a thought that there is a ego you see what I mean. I for myself do not belive the ego exists but for those that do then it is just a thought that comes to them and then they label it and give power to it.

Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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