exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.
thenow
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by thenow » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:07 pm

I think I was simply not the observing self while going about trying to fulfill an outer purpose.

Like in meditation, we just observe whatever that's in front of us and are not affected by it. The same goes in life. Whatever happens, we just observe and do no get involved.

But it is hard to do. That's why I think enlightenment is not hard, the hardest part is to shift between the inner and the outer.

Maybe the fact of the difficulties of shifting says it's not a true enlightenment? Maybe there is no shifts to shift from?

But it is just easy to say and so hard to do. If we really can just totally neutral and not get involved of what we believe, would we go out and really share that with people in the first place?

Glen
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by Glen » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:07 am

Out of interest, which website is this?
Personal Development / (Diminishment) - PluginID

thenow
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by thenow » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:30 am

Glen wrote:Out of interest, which website is this?

Here are a few threads that I started over there. You don't even need to register to read them.

I welcome your comment and thoughts. My username there is trueself


http://lightworker.michaelsharp.org/*-c ... er-energy/

http://lightworker.michaelsharp.org/pin ... different/

http://lightworker.michaelsharp.org/*-c ... editation/

http://lightworker.michaelsharp.org/hea ... er-energy/
Last edited by thenow on Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:32 am, edited 3 times in total.

doug
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by doug » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:33 am

Welcome thenow...enjoy this forum.
doug

Tara
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by Tara » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:32 pm

Doesn't this go back to "helping" people only if they ask for it? Otherwise we are trying to change there minds and they are not open.

I like what Katy says:
There are 3 types of business
Yours, mine and gods...if you are in their business who is minding yours?

And what I am learning on this forum is like what someone said earlier...your "presence" of being, love whatever, will be more accepted and helpful than trying to convey exahustingly...

thenow
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by thenow » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:02 pm

Tara wrote:
Doesn't this go back to "helping" people only if they ask for it? Otherwise we are trying to change there minds and they are not open.
They do want to hear about these things, but the deeper we go into it, the stronger they oppose.

It is a good point to mind our "being and influence people that way, although, sometimes this will just end up not doing anything.

But the fact is that we really can't change anyone else.
Tara wrote: I like what Katy says:
There are 3 types of business
Yours, mine and gods...if you are in their business who is minding yours?
I love Bryon Katie. Isn't one of our business is to help others? And when we try to help others, there has to come a point where we will try to show them the cause of suffering.

And yes, the way to do it is not to make the sharing a problem or a suffering for myself.

Mesquared
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by Mesquared » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:31 pm

I clicked on some of those links, and my ego flared up! Ha! ;)

I was thinking..."Pathology? He thinks Tolle is describing something or people who are pathological?" Because, you know, that would say something about me, if it were true.

Then, I took a breath and remembered that Eckhart has always recommended embracing what you are feeling in the moment and when you embrace it, really feel it, it eventually dissolves and you transcend it.

I think others miss this sometimes. I know I forget it. It's not about completely disassociating yourself. It's about feeling it, which allows for that space to rise above it and around it, so to speak.

thenow
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by thenow » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:51 am

Mesquared wrote:
I clicked on some of those links, and my ego flared up! Ha! ;)

I was thinking..."Pathology? He thinks Tolle is describing something or people who are pathological?" Because, you know, that would say something about me, if it were true.
Ego flaring up, exactly how I felt at that time, but quickly, the only feelings are compassion and also surprise how difficult it is to convey something you thought everyone would be so touched and so much like a light ball moment.

I thought when I explain what I find in meditation, people will instantly get it and embrace it.

But they just argued with me and would hold on to a point of view and would not let go. They really have not been able to get into meditation. And they argued with me, saying that meditation can just be a form of repression.

Anyway, one of the threads that I wrote out a lot of my experience in meditation was just removed from that site.
Last edited by thenow on Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Amritam
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by Amritam » Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:49 pm

You aren't responsible for other people. You can't change their thinking. All you can do is share then let go of the outcome.
To have a mind that is open to everything and attached to nothing.~ Tilopa

HowToKnowGod
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by HowToKnowGod » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:20 am

Have you ever thought about what many spiritual teachers say - that the world is an illusion? That includes people that you think need to be introduced to "the now". If you're suffering from trying to convey it, then you're not fully in the now yourself. Any form of suffering disappears in the now.

I remember sending my mom a copy of TPON. Later when I saw her at her place she said thanks for the book, but she obviously didn't fully "get it". She ended up giving the book away. If I have a problem with her not getting it, then it's my problem, not hers.

Tolle and other teachers also say that "it's always about you". It's not about other people, no matter WHAT is bothering you. "What" is the circumstance, right? The power of now is free of circumstances.

It's like the mother complaining about her screaming child. The screaming child isn't the problem. The mother's reaction is the problem. When the mother realizes that all the suffering is caused by her own mind, she becomes free. Not only that, but ironically, the child will probably stop screaming so much.

Actually, I found it quite comical reading your words from your original post:
People on that site totally dismiss the idea that the perception of suffering is in the responsibility of the individuals. They think victims are never responsible.
So, if you're the victim of these people who just don't get it, then by your own logic, you are responsible. You are responsible for your perception of suffering. Why should we care that you're exhausted? That's your own fault, by your own logic.

You sort of sound like an evangelical Christian. It's like you're mad that people aren't getting your message. You just swapped messages, that's all. Instead of "You must accept that Jesus died on the cross for your sins and through him is the only way to get to heaven", you're using "You must accept that this moment is the only moment. 'Being present" is the only answer." At least you're getting tired though. That says more than what a lot of fundamentalist Christians are like.

thenow
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by thenow » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:18 am

HowToKnowGod wrote:
It's like the mother complaining about her screaming child. The screaming child isn't the problem. The mother's reaction is the problem. When the mother realizes that all the suffering is caused by her own mind, she becomes free. Not only that, but ironically, the child will probably stop screaming so much.

Actually, I found it quite comical reading your words from your original post:
People on that site totally dismiss the idea that the perception of suffering is in the responsibility of the individuals. They think victims are never responsible.
So, if you're the victim of these people who just don't get it, then by your own logic, you are responsible. You are responsible for your perception of suffering. Why should we care that you're exhausted? That's your own fault, by your own logic.
I definitely knew all about these while doing it. The attemp did bring a bit of surprise on the path. I went in there trying to see how many minds I can change. Although in the end I didn't seemingly did what I set out to do, in the process, I did learn a lot about myself and about the nature of ego and our outer purpose in general. I noticed some people there provide their support and understanding on what I tried to convey.

I don't think I am responsible for anything. It is just an attempt. And if it was not successful over there, then I can always leave to share my experiences somewhere else.

I do just see the whole thing in a compassionate light, even though I might sound a bit of disappointed out of trying too hard. But I am totally fine with it.

HowToKnowGod
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by HowToKnowGod » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:21 pm

I am totally fine with it.
Are you sure?

piercej
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by piercej » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:48 pm

humble 2 cents...

... please excuse me if someone has said this earlier because i didnt read the entire thread.

i used to do this too. try to expose people to this knowledge. its very natural because what causes happiness obviously causes the desire to share it with others, especially loved ones.

my experience has proven that this does not work. attempting to talk someone into a belief is rarely effective, it only seems to work with those who are 1. searching for answers 2. already trust you.

my attempts were met with disappointment, frustration, and little if any success. once i gave up this attempt a funny thing happened...

i simply decided to just live my life as it is with this knowledge, and if my example created curiosity in others, so be it. only then did 3 people come to me with things like, "why are you so happy?" and "i knew you when you were struggling, what has been the difference?"

i dont know if this is the best way, or if what im saying is remotely correct, but my little experience has been to shut up and just be an example. let the "chips" fall where they may.

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Onceler
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by Onceler » Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:49 am

I just skimmed through this thread. I help people by profession, but have come to realize people who don't want to change or don't want help, can't be helped. Time and circumstance have to move them into a a more open place. Maybe you are there at that moment, maybe not.

What strikes me, thenow, is that you must have cut your non-duality chops having to explain, define, counter, etc. I imagine the experience refined your understanding to a certain extent or helped you see your own borders or edges which you have to now move past.

Help them, only if it helps you. If it helps you, it helps them and all of us.
Be present, be pleasant.

thenow
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Re: exhausted from trying to convey "the now"

Post by thenow » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:26 am

Onceler wrote:
Help them, only if it helps you. If it helps you, it helps them and all of us.
Thank you Onceler:

Yes, the process did help me in seeing other people's view on something I have experienced deeply. Although I have gone through that, when explaining and describing to others, I am surprised to find people really have their mind set on certain things. Even with my first hand experiences being described to them, they still argue with all their guessed and beliefs.

But it's all good now. I have spoken my truth and learned from the process that sometimes truth really is in the eyes of beholders.

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