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Hard Work?

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 10:56 pm
by Viv
Does anyone else find it hard work?


BEING the watcher?

Being vigilant?

How do you know that you are watching.. or 'what' is watching?

If one is watching the thinking and there is an awareness of that ... then aren't there 3?

Isn't this just a multiple personality?

I'm not dissing, I just find it exhausting... and so I know that I'm not getting it. Just resistance..... but why?

Too many questions, I know.

Any feedback is good.

Viv xx

Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 11:26 pm
by heidi
Sometimes I need to remind myself, but it gets easy and the payoff is huge joy.

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:11 am
by mccpcorn
Being that alert can be a drain, especially as you can be easily distracted.

Sometimes I feel like I'm just filling myself with white noise, trying to block or jam the mind. Other times I feel like I'm in sensory overload and that perhaps the mind is just a useful way to screen out irrelivancies.

I'm gradually getting the hang of it. Instead of looking around, or listening, or feeling, trying to use all those portals at once, I try to just concentrate on whichever feels right. (I used to try all because none of them would really leap out at me.)

As I've mentioned elsewhere I also feel that the few times I closed my mind down through 'watching the thinker' were more accident by design.

The best way to describe it I feel is not look at things in terms of multiple or split personalities. We are richly complex entities and our brains, our consciousness, has many facets, the mind being only one of them. To believe there is only the mind and nothing else, or that only the mind is sound and everything else suspect, just doesn't sound plausible to me.

Most people only live through the aspect of the mind, at best peripherally aware that something is beyond those narrow confines. All we are doing is exploring something that is already there. The fact that it is largely unknown does not necessarily make it suspect. The mind surpresses it and teaches us it is not normal to either have or explore these aspects, but really only through exploration comes true understanding.

We have not created these aspects so they are not a sign of illness. It is in fact the mind that is the construct; created, structured, and organised to get us through our daily life situation.

Have you ever heard the expression that we all wear masks? We alter our behaviour subtley when dealing with different people, acting out different roles etc. Based on that and what ET says I believe that we've simply gotten so used to wearing masks, swapping one to the other, that we've forgotten what our FACE looks like. Now we see the MASKS as our true selves, because we've been wearing them so long we don't know how to take them off.

ET is simply offering an idea, a way that we can learn to remove the mask so that we can see ourselves. We can still wear masks in our everyday dealings, but we will be aware of the face underneath and we will remember how to take the masks off when we're done. ^^

Look on it as finding yourself again. :)

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:42 am
by Larryfroot
How do we know when we are watching the mind Viv? By the arising of deep inner peace.

The awareness is simply who you are, and that is what is watching the mind.

Hope it helps. Larryfroot

What a lovely analogy mccpcorn! thanks:
Have you ever heard the expression that we all wear masks? We alter our behaviour subtley when dealing with different people, acting out different roles etc. Based on that and what ET says I believe that we've simply gotten so used to wearing masks, swapping one to the other, that we've forgotten what our FACE looks like. Now we see the MASKS as our true selves, because we've been wearing them so long we don't know how to take them off.

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 4:24 pm
by JedEye
hard work is not that, I think :)

making it easier:
Find 10 minutes, with eyes closed forget about doing anything special, don`t observe. You see mind anyway, what you see is mind, can`t miss it. Thought comes, resistance or needing to do something or trying to remember what I was supposed to do comes or anything else. Observing happens always, you are not able to not to see.
Or being where you are already, not starting to do anything. Being happens. :D
I read omega retreat some time ago and as I remeber it was helpful with not making adding effort to what is. It is here ... mon_am.htm

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:19 pm
by Viv
So... does this mean you've all got your bliss, then? :wink:

See, whilst I BELIEVE IN joy and deep peace. I ain't ever really FELT it. Or been it. (and I've 'done' meditation, tai chi, yoga, manifesting, intention etc., etc, etc., etc.)

But it's the RESISTANCE. innit? Or isn't it?

V xx :D

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:38 pm
by Chelsy
Any feedback is good.
You're not ready.

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 10:42 pm
by Viv
Are you judging me, Chelsy?

Or is that an observation?

and on what is it based?

V xx

Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:57 pm
by JedEye
Viv resistance to what?

Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 1:17 am
by heidi
I think it's letting go of the resistance. It's that simple. Acceptance! :)

Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 4:50 am
by Egoicmidget
Part of surrender to what is includes the dropping of "trying" to understand with the mind.
The "efforter" pushes the mind to get it.
While the mind is important it isn't who you are, what is witnessed cannot be your true self.
You are awareness because as you may notice nothing else is permanent.
Thoughts, feelings insights,concepts all are viewed from the witness which is silent and observes everything we all experience.
The confusion comes when we attempt to use the mind to figure this out.
Stillness and awareness cannot be defined by the mind, the result fear arises because to surrender means not having the fictional solid base of idenity to stand on.
Awareness and the witness are reallly one and the same and infinite love and compassion flows from the silent vast inner space, being can be felt inside the body. Spirit is a term used to define this beyond thought occurence.
The mind can offer some help but below the neck is the sensations that spirit teaches us all. The body feels energized when you pay attention to it in the ways Tolle mentions.
The mind and awareness are mutaully inclusive, there are those who wish to exclude thought and ego, but being and identity can merge, you really give up nothing and gain everytthing as the realization happens that opinions thoughts feelings are all intact but are held together by awareness your true one self.


Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 12:10 am
by Moonlight
Viv I spent ages believing in this joy & deep peace too & then at some point I stopped believing in it & started to recognize it within me where it had always been.

Now I'm not always recognizing this peace that is here in every moment & quite often still get lost in my thinking. However I am starting to become more & more aware of what is standing in the way of this peace & preventing me from being aware of it.

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 2:19 am
by Webwanderer
Viv, If you honestly want to know Truth then you are ready. Where we start from is less relevant than what we start with, and that is a genuine desire to know. If you have that and you are willing to make major sacrifices then Truth can be realized. It can be Lived.

Now what is it, you may ask, must we be willing to sacrafice? We must be willing to sacrafice our very own self. In Truth, it is only imaginary anyway, but it sure doesn't seem that way at first. The arguments that can be made for the selfs' existance, the "me", are long, detailed and varied. And the logic behind the arguments seem quite sound. But that is the point of the search, to see if there is any Truth to the belief in a me.

However, there is no point in searching for the Truth of Being unless we are willing to accept the catostophic possibility that the "me" is a figment of our imagination, of the mind believing itself to be independant and real.

The point in watching our thoughts is to observe the mind in action from a place outside of it, a place where the mind cannot go. Once we
Re-Cognize from outside the mind then we may use the mind as was intended, as a tool to function actively in this material world. Although watching the mind is one portal, as Eckhart puts it, it is not the only method of regaining real-I-zation. There are others. Look around, you may find a method, a portal that more suited to your needs at this time.

Posted: Sun May 14, 2006 8:23 pm
by Chelsy
I am in agreement with Webwanderer's post and posts.

Eckhart has said that there is one thing that has to be in order
to awaken, in order to realize who one is beyond form,
and that is the desire to end suffering.

If this is true, then one is "ready."

If it is not true, then one is not.

And as the collective consciousness is addicted to the
suffering self, one has to have had enough of this addiction.
This then becomes the willingness to sacrifice
our very own self.

Surrender and peace is what we now want.
Instead of conflict and suffering and resistance,
which feeds this false self.

Posted: Sun May 28, 2006 6:06 am
by lakeswimr
Haven't read the other replies. trying to be the watcher is hard work. Being the watcher is natural and easy. :)