Presence and Resumes

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.
HowToKnowGod
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:46 am

Presence and Resumes

Post by HowToKnowGod » Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:05 pm

I'm applying for jobs these days. I find it strange that in order for someone to hire me, my past becomes so important. I almost want to tell people that the past is unimportant, only the presence is. I'm quite sure that will get my resume thrown in the garbage at best.

I've got lots of good grades from past education. I've got some fairly good work experience. I don't want to cheat myself by disregarding that, yet at the same time, the more attention I give those things, the more I get identified with something that is not me. It could get dangerous.

Just an observation.

User avatar
Ananda
Posts: 949
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:35 am
Location: Manchester, England
Contact:

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by Ananda » Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:02 pm

Well, play the game, or don't play the game, it's completely up to you!

the more I get identified with something that is not me. It could get dangerous
Give no heed to this at all, this is just an idea. It's impossible.

Peaceman
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 4:38 am

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by Peaceman » Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:38 pm

I think when it comes to interviews etc if you are fully Present in the moment the Past will dissolve into the moment and you will do just fine!!

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6387
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by Sighclone » Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:57 am

Great thread. Presence can be a bit unnerving to unconscious people, especially some interviewers. Of course, the Source that they are will sense it, but egos will be threatened. Wear it gently until you sense that you are comfortable. Stay on topics which demonstrate how you can help them...ask questions about their specific work-related tasks, and talk about your skills...presence will sneak around the edges.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

HowToKnowGod
Posts: 148
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 1:46 am

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by HowToKnowGod » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:46 am

I fear that the people with the power to hire or not hire will be repelled by my presence and that I will never get a decent job. As E.T. has said, sometimes people separate like oil and water. A lot of people just can't stand the presence. My field is full of machismo.

hypnagog
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:57 am

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by hypnagog » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:39 am

While trying to experience life in the present moment is an admirable pursuit, it doesn't mean that one's past history is utterly meaningless with respect to employment. Your skills - which you ideally practice while living in the moment - are based on past experience and learning. Try hiring someone without determining that they have at least some experience and skill for the job. After wasting enough time and money hiring unqualified people, even Ramana Maharshi would be looking at resumes and calling references.

Also, I disagree with the idea that the unawakened masses become uncomfortable when dealing with a person who is present. I suppose if you just sit there staring at someone with a beatific smile on your face, you'll creep them out. But generally people are drawn to someone who is there with them fully.

That's the secret behind charisma. People often remark how certain famous individuals (Bill Clinton for example) make you feel like your the only person in the room with them when you have a conversation with them. How do they do that? They know how to be fully in the moment when they talk to people. Research has shown that animals (e.g. dolphins) are drawn to people who are in the present and spend more time hanging around them as opposed to people who are not focusing on being in the moment.

Write up an honest resume that makes you look attractive to an employer and do your best to stay present during the interview process. There's nothing more to do. Don't worry about whether the interviewer is awakened. Like the vast majority of the people you will deal with for the rest of your life, he/she probably won't be. This has nothing to do with how you choose to experience your own life. Best of luck to you.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6387
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by Sighclone » Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:51 pm

Welcome back, hypnagog! I've interviewed a few folks in my years, and been interviewed. You say:
Also, I disagree with the idea that the unawakened masses become uncomfortable when dealing with a person who is present.
The "power of NOW" can be felt in conversations. Some interviewers need to totally dominate the meeting. Presence is threatening to them -- appealing on one level, but threatening on another. I did not refer to the unawakened masses...but rather the immediate interview environment. Candidates need to assess the interviewer, cognitively and intuitively. Some jobs are worth getting by simply accepting the fact that one or two of several interviewers in a series might need some ego-stroking. An impulse from Presence might be to gently suggest an alternative thought to a sensitive subject (Eckhart's PON is full of that) which would be a spiritual pointer to the interviewer. For the unusual and uncomfortable environment of a job interview, some volatile subjects might be best left unapproached.

Of course being sensitive, aware and fully conscious is vital. If "being yourself" means having a little ego appear, too, because that is where you are at that point in your life, accepting, "what is" has integrity. And, of course, in the "real world" (95% unconscious), "ego drive" is often seen as a strength in job candidates. HTKG is worried about just being present, not honoring his past accomplishments, possibly not honoring his workplace credentials.

Getting a job can be a "karma fulcrum" point -- a major life event. Eckhart spent two years on a park bench after his initial shift. The challenge of "disorientation" (Adya) after an initial awakening can enter the work-world we occupy. It did for me -- I spent about five months basically doing nothing but read about awakening and playing golf. Fortunately my financial situation allowed that at that time. I believe there are no easy answers to this dilemma, and that each "person" will need to navigate it by themselves. Of course, Pure Awareness and our home there will emerge untouched. We might not get the first job we apply for, however.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

hypnagog
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:57 am

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by hypnagog » Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:16 am

Thanks for the warm welcome back, Andy.

I suspect that people are threatened more by certain effects of presence than the mere fact that someone is present. One effect of presence may be not reacting to something in a typical conditioned manner. For example, a prospective employer may try to display dominance by saying something that is intended to evoke a feeling of fear in the job applicant. If the applicant's genuine response out of presence is to simply smile and show zero fear (because he feels little or none), this very well may be threatening to the attempted manipulator. On the other hand, some employers will be impressed by the applicant's poise.

The integration of spiritual practice and work can be difficult at times. But HowToKnowGod has nothing to gain by perpetuating his fear that he won't be able to get a job because people will be "repelled" by his presence. Even if the fear is justified (which I don't believe is the case), I would suggest that he stop resisting it in order to be more fully present. Accept that you have the fear and forge ahead.

If you believe that your spiritual practice is incompatible with working in the world alongside people who are lost in their minds, you are simply setting yourself up for a negative experience. Instead, I suggest looking at presence as a plus in the work world. Forget about trying to explain to interviewers, bosses or co-workers your interest in Tolle, ontology, etc. Just be the guy who pays attention to people, has a clear mind and focuses on what he's doing. They may not know what to call it, but most people respond well to people who listen carefully to what they say and have a cool head.

Will you be out of sync with some of the egos at work because of presence? Probably, but you may be pleasantly surprised by the people who are drawn to your vibration. Also, remember that work sucks more for people who are lost in their minds than for those who have even a little bit of presence (and thus awareness of their role in creating their own unhappiness.)

Like you, Andy, I've had the luxury of taking extended sabbaticals from work to focus on spirituality. In both cases, I eventually felt an internal push to get back in the world as well as resistance to doing so. I was probably worried that I would lose what I thought I had gained. But when I look back on it, I believe I was transformed much more by dealing with challenging work environments and people than when I meditated three hours a day, read whatever I was interested in and got plenty of sleep every night.

This is why I am encouraging HowToKnowGod to look forward to working on his practice of presence in his job search and the work place as opposed to dreading it. On the other hand, if HTKG suddenly comes into a fortune, I certainly wouldn't blame him if he decided to move to the Caribbean and sit on the beach all day. :)

Cheers.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6387
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by Sighclone » Wed Aug 12, 2009 3:37 am

If you could read my post as encouraging the opposite of presence, then I need to moderate on a UFC website or someplace less evolved!! And, hypnagog, your example of showing no fear was excellent...if the applicant is interviewing for a job where fear is the currency to command respect, then his/her failure at that test-point in the interview is a subtle direction from Life: flunk the interview, find a better place to work.

Having seen Eckhart in an "interview" environment (Oprah webinars and open mikes), I'm reminded of how his answers seemed just suited for the level of his questioners -- and he had nothing to lose. I guess I'd say to HTKG: "Be present and trust that your responses will self-adjust to the questioner. If they don't, then there is probably some good reason, like the job was wrong for you." That sounds like wavering from my original stance, but I too want to encourage presence...just maybe not Advaita-zombie-guru-avatar lecturing...was HTKG worrying he might do that?

I am an interviewer for applicants to Harvard College. I asked a fundamentalist Christian if she felt it would be necessary to witness her faith to her professors. This question caused great struggle for her.

Most people who are unfamiliar with even the concept of awakening are likely to lump nonduality into the religion bucket. I would hope that HTKG might sidestep a long attempt at explanation, despite his/her enthusiasm. Sure didn't work with my sister after my first kensho! I've learned to be very quiet about all of this unless there is genuine interest and an open relatively unconditioned mind.

I'd like to recommend my latest favorite modern nondual book:"Wake Up Now," by Stephen Bodian...he discusses integration of the experience of awakening into all of life, including work...he mentions "spiritual bypassing," first coined by John Welwood, and full embodiment of the experience of waking up -- both Adya and Eckhart took a few years. So did Ramana. So will I.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

borris83
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:16 am

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by borris83 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:52 am

I think I have some answers to this interview question but right now I have a little time for a long post.. I am in office..

Anyway,
full embodiment of the experience of waking up -- both Adya and Eckhart took a few years. So did Ramana. So will I.
I heard Adya saying that it took him years for embodiment to happen.. But I was thinking that for Ramana and ET, both awakening and embodiment happened at the same time (As Adya says, it is rare but possible) Where did you read that it took years for Eckhart and Ramana :D I don't think so but may be you are right.. But I would love to know from where you came to know that

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6387
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by Sighclone » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:28 pm

I don't know what Ramana did for ten years in the cave...actually in the lower chamber of the ashram, then the cave. Maybe he was just refining his experience. We do know he did not teach, and later he did. Was he more awake then? Did he express more love later in his life? Was that deeper embodiment? Frankly, I think so. I do know for sure that to elevate Ramana to the level of worship would not align with his message.

Eckhart sat on a bench for two years, actually went back to study at Cambridge for a while. He also studied nonduality from several teachers. How can we consider that anything but the process of deeper embodiment?

Just my opinion...

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

borris83
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:16 am

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by borris83 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:01 pm

First of all, I have to definitely say this... This forum prevents a lot of people from going crazy.. Because when a person is wondering 'Am I the only one who is going through this?', someone says 'You're not alone'...It definitely gives a relief...

And, I always like to post answers when someone goes through things which were also part of my experience...This is one of them 8)

Hi HowToKnowGod! How many interviews have you attended after the first glimpse of awakening? If you have attended a few, then may be the problem is something else and what I am saying can't help you much; But you haven't attended any and just worrying about it, then I think I can help you...

When I finished my education, my ego center was dissolving and gradually I began to lose motivation to do anything for myself..And it has always been so till now! I have never been motivated to do anything for myself and never ever bothered about future.. But surprisingly that did not affect my life situation at all.. When I look back I see that the journey of life has just happened for the past 9 years without a driver in the driver seat...

And when it came to interviews, that was an advantage for me.. In the beginning I was flunking at some interviews not because I was present but there were so many crowd and the companies had to filter a handful of people out of them..

But later on, I always got through in all the interviews I attended.. Since my first job, I have changed 7 jobs and I haven't failed even a single interview.. But the reason was very simple.. I wasn't so desperate to get the job and I didn't worry even a bit about what's going to happen during the interview.. I didn't even do much of mental rehearsal..And when the interviews happened, I was completely present.. In fact, all my interview experiences were very blissful because already an hour of waiting before the interview starts would have made my thoughts to settle down..

And during those moments of present, I was able to answer questions very convincingly than I normally would..You get more presence of mind only when you are completely present..
I almost want to tell people that the past is unimportant, only the presence is.
Why would you want to tell them that? In fact, I would think that it is a bad idea to even say that to oneself..Because it just creates a thought against yourself and creates a conflict..And it is not that past is unimportant.. Past is important, but not necessary Now! The same is with future.. Do you notice that in order to defend your thought about the past, the mind is actually imagining a situation in the future?
he more attention I give those things, the more I get identified with something that is not me. It could get dangerous.
It seems to be so but it might not be true.. Even if it is true, you can't go on denying the past because of the fear of identification...And, the fear of identification may actually stop you from getting involved in life..

I went through this fear of identification a lot in the past, and because of this fear I was actually denying life itself..That is very common for a lot of people who have had some glimpses of awakening.. But it is important for you to realize that, right now, the past is not causing the problem; But the fear of identification with the past is actually causing the problem..

Also remember that identification is bound to happen again and you can't simply avoid it sometimes... You have been living with identification for a long period of time and it is unfair to expect that it would go away very soon.. Just get rid of this fear, because once you have got a glimpse of truth you can't go backwards...

borris83
Posts: 245
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:16 am

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by borris83 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:25 pm

I don't know what Ramana did for ten years in the cave...actually in the lower chamber of the ashram, then the cave.

Regarding Ramana, it is a little different.. Fortunately, for many people awakening and embodiment doesn't happen at the same time and during this interval the body prepares itself to face the embodiment... But when they do happen at the same time, the body experiences tremendous shock.. In fact, most people die during the moment of sudden enlightenment, others get a lot of bodily disorders..

You remember my thread regarding Nirvikalpa Samadhi? Ramana was in samadhi there, and his body was covered by termites and other insects which had eaten a small part of flesh from his leg..There have been other people who were in Samadhi and food had to be fed to them forcefully in order to keep their body alive..

But for people who have an awakening and gradual embodiment, this doesn't happen..Also, this doesn't happen for the people who have trained their body to face the sudden enlightenment, for eg, Yoga...

karmarider
Posts: 2141
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:00 pm
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by karmarider » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:08 pm

I don't know what embodiment really means but it is my experience that with awakening, the inner demons surface. There can be much confusion about how to handle daily living. That's another subject though...

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6387
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Presence and Resumes

Post by Sighclone » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:10 pm

Thanks, borris -- I will correct my understanding of Ramana's experience. I have been asking others about Nirvikalpa Samadhi - I think your question here is interesting and valid.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Post Reply