Help for a Beginner?

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Help for a Beginner?

Postby streetparade2000 » Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:58 am

Hi All

I'm pretty new to Eckhart's work I read The Power of Now a while back and have just read Practising the Power of Now. Can anyone help me with a fundemental problem I'm struggling with? I've tried to be as clear as possible. Hope it makes sense.

When i am trying to stay present I can see and am aware of 'the thinker' and its constant stream of chatter, and I can also feel my greater presence, which I guess is good. However, part of me is encouraging this process by saying things like: 'There's the thinker, just ignore it - don't judge.' 'Stay present.' 'There's the silent watcher.' Along with other encouraging responses. These thoughts are not constant - just enabling.

I'm confused though - are these thoughts coming from 'my thinker' or is it something greater? I'm pretty sure it's 'the thinker' and if so are these thoughts acceptable, as they really are or appear to be facilitating the process of my practising of prescence.

thanks
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Postby heidi » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:17 am

I think they're coming from your consciousness :wink:
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Non-judgmental stance

Postby BillyPLed » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:38 am

I would encourage you to not judge your thoughts as "good or bad." You ask if they are "acceptable." I would think that the thoughts can be accepted as thoughts. Part of my problem is that I often get resistant or frustrated when I think I am not "practicing right." Eckhart seems to be encouraging us to take a non-judgmental, accepting, non-resistant stance. He has even written in The Power of Now that we can accept our non-acceptance. It could be that as you continue you will find that the inner voice that is encouraging you gets quieter.
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Postby kiki » Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:58 am

Look for the one who thinks she/he is practicing anything, including trying to "be present". All you will find are ideas about who that one is, and you can't be an idea. Notice what all ideas arise within and 'home' will reveal itself.

You, the real you, must always be here - you cannot be something that changes. Thoughts, feelings, sensations, objects continually change. Discover That in which all of these arise - That is what you are in reality, for That is always here and never changes.
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Postby kiki » Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:34 am

streetparade asked,

"I'm confused though - are these thoughts coming from 'my thinker' or is it something greater? I'm pretty sure it's 'the thinker' and if so are these thoughts acceptable, as they really are or appear to be facilitating the process of my practising of prescence."

I ask you, what is 'my thinker?' Try to locate it. In other words, ask yourself 'Who am I?' Or better yet, 'What am I?' Actually look for it. If you try this you won't be able to find 'the thinker'. You will see thoughts arise but they belong to nobody. Thoughts may APPEAR to be facilitating the practicing of presence, but who is doing this practice? Again, 'What am I?'

Tolle's pointers are a way of diverting attention away from a 'me' who seems to be separate and who seems to be suffering. They are a sort of practical kinesthetic application of the question, 'Who am I?' When attention is diverted from the egoic entity and into the energy field within, or with one's surroundings there will be the discovery that you are not that which thinks, you are not that which feels, and you are not that which believes itself to be separate from everything else. You will discover that you are that in which all else unfolds, the background upon which all else is projected.

This background is silent, unchanging, eternal awareness - it is beyond time and beyond space. Because it is silent it usually goes unnoticed. Because it doesn't change the mind doesn't notice it - the mind is very good at noticing that which changes and is always jumping around looking for something new, helpful, exciting or whatever. It is not satisfied with what is here right now. That's why mind dominated attempts to find happiness fail.

So instead, notice that in which mind arises. And what is it that does any noticing? Awareness! That's what you are. There is no 'me' that is practicing presence. There is only awareness which sometimes manifests as a 'me' who seems to be practicing presence. Sometimes awareness manifests as an 'other' who seems to be suffering. This latter case is the predominat appearance in the manifested world.

For those who are awakening to their natural state, the 'me' entity only seems to be practicing presence; but in reality, it is awareness that is doing everything. For a time it may seem helpful to believe that it's 'you' but at some point the realization will arise that awareness is choosing to awaken through the appearance of 'you'. Awakened awareness is what you are and it is permutating in various ways until it reveals ItSelf to ItSelf.
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Postby summer » Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:14 pm

Beautiful. Kiki,
your words are very clear.
thank you :)
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Postby ambhuruham » Sat Mar 12, 2005 7:19 pm

When you sit down and pay attention, you'll find that there are different parts of your mind.

Manas = sensory, processing mind
Chitta = storage of impressions
Ahamkara = "I-maker" or Ego
Buddhi = knows, decides, judges, and discriminates

You'll see that there are thinking patterns that are easy to seperate yourself from. These come from the chitta, which is like your memory bank or place where thoughts are stored, and manas, which involves your senses.

We use the wisdom of Buddhi... which produce the kinds of thoughts you are talking about... in order to quiet our manas and chitta thoughts. So buddhi is very useful. It is very useful to practice paying attention to buddhi instead of stuff from chitta and manas.

Buddhi is a tool that later becomes an obstacle. Because, eventually, to reach enlightenment, you will have to quiet buddhi also. How to go about doing that will become apparant to you later. For now, use buddhi so that you can quiet the manas and chitta thought patterns. Buddhi is more useful than these because it is the most logical and wise.

Hope that helps and doesn't confuse you even more.

Love,
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silent watcher

Postby Sally Bates » Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:44 pm

Hi,
I'm only new to all this but I think the way to go is to not think about it too much. Eckhart talks about being the silent watcher and to listen to the thoughts without judgement or opinions. So it doesn't matter where these thoughts are coming from; the egoic mind or consciousness, just listen to them with awareness and without labeling. Just see them for what they are in the now and be present. It's that simple, no extra data required.

Sally Bates :)
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Postby MatthewCromer » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:12 am

Thank you Kiki, that was very clear.
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Postby Wings » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:57 pm

Hi Kiki,

One can sense that clarity has risen from clearer consciousness. Well said, and yes, very helpful.

Thank you. :)
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Postby Egoicmidget » Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:43 pm

Kiki your words ring with the clarity that befits your "enlightened" state of consciousness, I too thanks you for your teachings.


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Postby phil » Mon Apr 10, 2006 9:06 pm

kiki wrote:For those who are awakening to their natural state, the 'me' entity only seems to be practicing presence; but in reality, it is awareness that is doing everything. For a time it may seem helpful to believe that it's 'you' but at some point the realization will arise that awareness is choosing to awaken through the appearance of 'you'. Awakened awareness is what you are and it is permutating in various ways until it reveals ItSelf to ItSelf.


Awareness is doing everything. Awareness is choosing. Awareness is revealing itself to itself.

We, as a seperate entity, don't exist. Everything is God.

Thus, there is nothing we need to do, and no where we need to go?
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