Conscious of Consciousness

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KPO
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Conscious of Consciousness

Post by KPO » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:19 pm

Tolle states (TPON. P.81) : "------- we could say that presence means Consciousness becoming conscious of it self-------".
I have problems with that. To me, the 'conscious mind' can become aware/conscious of Consciousness; but that is not the same as Consciousness becoming conscious of itself.
For that to happen, it seems to me, Consciousness would have to have a thinking mind of its own.

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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by Ananda » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:40 am

Hello KPO,
To me, the 'conscious mind' can become aware/conscious of Consciousness; but that is not the same as Consciousness becoming conscious of itself.
What is the 'conscious mind' ? Is the mind conscious? What we call the mind, being the intellect, memory, imagination, ego, ideas, thinking etc- none of that is conscious. The mind is not conscious in and of itself. The mind is made known by a further knower, a subject- to which the mind (and all of its constituents) appear as objects of knowledge. The mind appears 'conscious' due to its proximity to consciousness itself- the mind shines by the light of the Self.

The mind is never aware of consciousness, it cannot grasp it, touch, or comprehend that which is behind it. Even the words 'consciousness', 'awareness', or 'Self' is just the mind's attempt to objectify (know) what is not an object (ie you). The mind is never aware of consciousness, never aware of awareness- as 'awareness' is not a possessive attribute of the mind, it is not an adjective in the case of awareness describing an object (ie 'conscious mind'). Awareness, consciousness, does not belong to the mind, nor does it describe the mind- the mind is dependent upon consciousness, known by consciousness and is also objectified by it.

What can become aware of consciousness, then? What can become aware of awareness? Awareness only. Consciousness only. No object can have knowledge of the subject- as knowledge is an intrinsic quality of awareness only, of the subject - not anything that you are aware of, everything else depends on it for knowledge.

Consciousness does not require a mind to know itself, as the mind is also known by consciousness. Only Consciousness has the capacity to know its own nature- it is self-existent, it shines of its own light- not by the light of another thing. If you negate all objects of knowledge, including the mind itself, then what remains and cannot be negated is the sole illuminator, the sole knower of all objects and their absence- that is consciousness, awareness, the Self - only that can know itself through its own nature.

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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by Mouse » Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:45 am

Consciousness can't be known as an object, one can only be Consciousness. As soon as there is a separation, a trying to know it or the sense of knowing something then that is not it. So the solution is to be everything.
I have been inspired by Barry Long's teaching and I write this so as to acknowledge my source of inspiration. It is a wonderful help, and it is a wonderful gift.

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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by Mouse » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:08 am

Mouse wrote: So the solution is to be everything.
How to be everything?

Negate self reflection. Self reflection is the cause of separation. And what is left is the senses and sensational reality, the inner body reality. I am one with now which is one with the body and the senses."I" in this case is pure intelligence (pure seeing), without the self reflection (of judging, speculating, commenting, thinking, wondering, trying, wanting).

This is being everything, this is being everything that is now. That state already is. It is simply the self reflective condition that creates the sense of separation and that arises as a separation in the state of Being. It is the cause of duality.
I have been inspired by Barry Long's teaching and I write this so as to acknowledge my source of inspiration. It is a wonderful help, and it is a wonderful gift.

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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by kiki » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:10 am

To me, the 'conscious mind' can become aware/conscious of Consciousness; but that is not the same as Consciousness becoming conscious of itself.
For that to happen, it seems to me, Consciousness would have to have a thinking mind of its own.
Is there an outside agent that illuminates the sun? Of course not; it illuminates itself. It's the same with consciousness - it is "self-revealing". No outside agent is necessary for consciousness to be known.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by Mouse » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:38 am

kiki wrote: Is there an outside agent that illuminates the sun? Of course not; it illuminates itself. It's the same with consciousness - it is "self-revealing". No outside agent is necessary for consciousness to be known.
I would say that the sun illuminates objects, while you are saying it illuminates itself....(correction).. It is the illumination itself, the only illumination, but there needs to be distinction for that to be known, hence there are objects.

I was looking at this kind of analogy and I was drawn to the Moon! It is a different aspect to what you are indicating, but then I am a Cancerian so that might explain my direction...

We have the Moon, a very important part of the Earth system governing the feelings in astrology and biological rhythms for the creatures. So what does this moon symbolise?

If we have the Sun as Consciousness (the illumination) and the Earth as the physical body, what does the Moon represent? There it is in the sky..... Does it represent the self reflective position? It is illuminated by the Sun and yet, to one ignorant of this, appears to have a light of it's own. Sometimes it is there in the sky, sometimes not.

Is it the symbol of the false "I" in the sky! (As the the moon represents emotion then it also indirectly represents the false "I")

I am not sure that I have come up with anything super-enlightening in this post, but I do enjoy symbolism, so if any one can brighten it up.......do burn any rubbish away!
I have been inspired by Barry Long's teaching and I write this so as to acknowledge my source of inspiration. It is a wonderful help, and it is a wonderful gift.

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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by KPO » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:03 pm

I'm afraid I'm lost. Sun, moon, subject/object. Oh dear; back to the bottom of the class. Back to Tolle; anyone else coming?

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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by Midnight » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:40 pm

KPO wrote:I'm afraid I'm lost. Sun, moon, subject/object. Oh dear; back to the bottom of the class. Back to Tolle; anyone else coming?
Haha, I know EXACTLY what you mean :)

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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by heidi » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:58 am

:lol:
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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by Mouse » Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:33 am

What's the problem? Grasping subject and object is absolutely essential.

You are the subject and whatever you are looking at is the object. That gets really interesting when the awareness comes back inside the body. Everything in here is an object, I never get to find out what I am! It is a wonderful exercise and I encourage everyone to distinguish between subject and object. And then just when I have identified the subject 'position', something reminds me that that can't be what I am. Obviously because it has been 'seen' from somewhere else, somewhere deeper.

I have a penchant for the abstract. I find that all experience occurs within. There is no Out There.
I have been inspired by Barry Long's teaching and I write this so as to acknowledge my source of inspiration. It is a wonderful help, and it is a wonderful gift.

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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by smiileyjen101 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:29 am

Tolle states (TPON. P.81) : "------- we could say that presence means Consciousness becoming conscious of it self-------".
I'm afraid I'm lost. Sun, moon, subject/object. Oh dear; back to the bottom of the class. Back to Tolle; anyone else coming?
lol! I went to p81 of my copy of TPON and it seems to be a totally different topic (but thank you, the reminders on my p81 were helpful for me to re-read right now lol!!)

Can you flesh out a bit - maybe what the question was he was answering with that statement so we can find the section.
I have problems with that. To me, the 'conscious mind' can become aware/conscious of Consciousness; but that is not the same as Consciousness becoming conscious of itself.
For that to happen, it seems to me, Consciousness would have to have a thinking mind of its own.

When I first read this ^^ I was reminded of how I felt in the light (nde) and also how I feel when I am acutely 'present' - aware of the oneness and the knowingness of all and everything almost as if everything is watching and aware of everything, even unawareness - but knowing you and your choices and 'presence' is exponentially aware of itself as a part of everything.

But, that's likely to have confused things even more - sorry!
Presence being consciousness becoming conscious of itself is (for me) the exponentiality of it all being one and that ultimately in time that it is conscious of itself. Which is where the past/present/future - here/everwhere - individual/all one gets a little crazy to grasp in this slower vibration

But... if we pick up our vibration (lighten) to a higher rate - where all is one - it makes perfect sense lol!!

Please let us know the area in the book by topic, then we can maybe discuss it in context a bit more.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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KPO
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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by KPO » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:22 pm

Smiileyjen
Chapter 5. "Realizing Pure Consciousness" Question "Is presence the same as being"
Mind you Tolle does say "---don't make an effort to understand this."; but thats like telling a cat not to chase mice.

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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by hanss » Wed Dec 29, 2010 10:51 pm

KPO wrote:..but thats like telling a cat not to chase mice.
If we get the cat to awaken he can see that he and the mice is really one. He would probably leave them alone then.
Sorry for that one :oops:
Seriously, why not stick with your own view that you have and write about in the first post? If that is your experience so far, why not? The more people you ask about this, the more answers you will get. And none of them will be the real truth for you.
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)

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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by smiileyjen101 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:00 am

Thanks KPO - it's P98 in my copy lol... which makes perfect sense of 'don't get attached to the words (or page numbers ; )they're just pointers lol) and don't make an effortto understand this. There is nothing you need to understand before you can become present."

'Make' and 'effort' is forcing that which already is, unnecessary.

Maybe sit consciously and just be aware that everything just is - all at once, all at one. Everything from the air around you, to everything - absolutely everything within all of your senses and beyond - is.

But even if you close off those senses the 'is' is still there whether you notice it or not, so that's why you need to do or understand no thing to be present.

While doing no thing to be present - all is as it is... Being and conscious of Being - living and conscious of living, conscious of consciousness. In those states, which is really as he says the one state, that is presence - being present.

But I agree with Hans - your experience is what matters for you.

For me Being and consciousness - and unconsciousness and all in between, like all things has a vibration - is an energy that is capable of growing and waning. So, for me, consciousness rising in vibration is an energy in itself, the more it grows the more it is... what it is... which is consciousness. But that's just my experience of it and maybe for me consciousness is not confined to a 'mind' - which is only the physical component of some awareness.

The great consciousness is the totality of all consciousness, regardless of the vibrations of individuals feeding into it - it still is - for me this is the greatest wonder of the light experience.

Sometimes this stuff is like a hall of mirrors reflecting themselves so many times its easy to forget where you are really standing in it. Whereas if you Be, there are no words, it just is.

So back to Tolle - "When you become conscious of Being, what is really happening is that Being becomes conscious of itself. When Being becomes conscious of itself - that's presence.

If you're an athlete or musician or creative in any way its sometimes referred to as 'being in the zone' or 'a buzz' ... what it is is Being - riding the surf of, the peak of, or plucking the perfect note of, or creating anything in, or even just sitting still in consciousness is the hugest thrill!!! It is who we really are (imho), but also knowing it and being one with it - mirror on mirror on mirror exponentially.

I want to say (but hesitate slightly)... it's an orgasm knowing its an orgasm and the thrill of it and the freedom and release of it from its physical binds - being an orgasm and knowing its an orgasm and all that it is a part of, but one with - and I'm pretty sure an orgasm doesn't have a 'mind' lol!!! But it does have a vibrational frequency and it does have an impact on the energy of the all. (maybe that's why orgasm means the little death). Life is one big orgasm if you are conscious of the all.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Conscious of Consciousness

Post by KPO » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:20 pm

What's an orgasm?

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