CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

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CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby ashley72 » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:56 am

Image

I was inspired by ET to create this diagram which depicts the relationship "Clock Time" has with "Psychological Time".

At the bottom of page 206. of "A New Earth". ET says "Time is the horizontal dimension of life, the surface layer of reality. Then there is the vertical dimension of depth, accessible to you only through the portal of the present moment"

In the Diagram above: Psychological Time is the horizontal dimension of life, and clock time is the vertical dimension which is also aligned with the portal of present moment awareness. Visually you can see in the diagram how negative judgement (form) takes you out of reality (present moment awareness) and creates a surface layer of reality. It interferes and pulls you further into an unconscious state of being. By bringing inner body awareness into action one can become more conscious... and become the watcher.... rather than completely identifying with the mind state (ego state).

I'd be interested to know if others relate well to this interpretation.
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby Blenderhead » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:18 pm

Hehe :)
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby Blenderhead » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:21 pm

Clocktime is just the use of time without a heavy story attached to it, but it is still horizontal IMO. Since you use past and future for practical purposes. So I would not place clocktime as vertical and I don't see that in Eckharts desciption.
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby snowheight » Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:33 pm

Ashley,

Yes this caused me to contemplate about my state when I catch my mind wandering. When I collapse the thread of runaway thought, focus my eyes and quiet the mind. During such an episode clock time rolls on, ironically, unnoticed by the occupied mind.

Your diagram might suggest to some that clock/psychological time are independent, as the axes are orthogonal. Might I suggest borrowing the idea of a "thread" from computer science?

.........^...^
.........|...|
.........|...|
.........|...| Psychological Time
.........|...|
.........|==>
.........|
Clock Time

And those collapses referred to above would look like:

.........^
.........|
.........|<== The Watcher
.........^...^
.........|...|
.........|...|
.........|...| Psychological Time
.........|...|
.........|==>
.........|
Clock Time
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby Blenderhead » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:17 pm

The first diagram makes more sense to me :shock:
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby Blenderhead » Mon Feb 28, 2011 10:27 pm

Hmm maybe clock time and psychological time are more separated than i thought.

Psychological time depends on thought. Clock time runs even when we stop thinking.

I dom't get time :?
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby ashley72 » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:47 am

Thanks Snowheight... I really like your representation as well, particular how it deals with the dependacies issue. One way I could address this in the first diagram, is to make square boxes (mind-moments) so the time interval is equal for x and y axis. At a later stage I was going to see if I could further develop this representation... And see if it was possible to show the mechanism for avoidance or phobias.... And also show how techiniques such as inner body awareness help to break the cycle or the anxiety trick.

Blenderhead: I agree it doesn't matter which axis is used, I chose those axis based on Eckharts words more than any other reason.
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby snowheight » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:43 am

Ash, I am sure there are many who would find such representations of these ideas useful.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby ashley72 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:41 am

Image

I've refined the graph again, this time I was inspired by Leonard Jacobson's Youtube Video called "Coming Into The Center".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl4veyKZwWs

In the graph above - present moment awareness, is the centre point (THE NOW)... it is like a zone of stillness (no mind moments exist). The pink squares are thoughts, memories, concepts, opinions, beliefs, grief, anger.... these moments operate in psychological time (either PAST OR FUTURE). Clock time is always in the background it exists in both realms of present moment awareness & past & future mind-states. The watcher (awareness) can observe all mind-moments because it acts from the center of your existence.

How can we live in the present moment? By first practising ego awareness; to become the observer of our thoughts and how we're spending our time. This will alert us to when we're not in the present moment (THE NOW). By catching our self dwelling on the past or the future, we immediately return to the present moment. The ego shrinks and our inner being is able to function more freely.

The second practice involves becoming more aware of the world around us. By using our five senses we can go slowly through each moment of life with the curiosity of a child, noticing things around us as we are seeing them for the first time.
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby enigma » Wed Mar 09, 2011 6:28 am

You seem to have a plot of various mental/emotional states according to the psychic time frame they occupy.
It doesn't seem to have much to do with clock time or present moment vertical depth.
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby ashley72 » Wed Mar 09, 2011 1:30 pm

Enigma,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm still trying to figure out a more complete way of expressing present moment awareness
as a function of time and space. For me each representation is a stepping stone in personal discovery.
I recently posted another thread called "Flip-book universe" which looks it from a different angle again.

If you have another way of representing present moment awareness... Please post.

I think many in this forum would benefit from a good visual pointer.
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby strali » Thu Mar 10, 2011 12:12 am

I like your idea of creating a visual pointer!

The way I understood it, he was just trying to differentiate the dimension of Thought from the dimension of Being by talking about going vertically into the now. I think both clock time and psychological time should be on the horizontal continuum because they have to do with our mind's use of time and not the way time actually is. Whether the mind is using it practically (like clock time) or whether it's using it to think about memories or creating anxiety about the future (psychological time) doesn't really make a difference. They're both imaginary, neither of them actually exist. That's why I think they should go on the shallow horizontal continuum.

The deeper vertical dimension is supposed to represent (at least how I understood it) the Now because it is the only time that we can actually perceive what is there and be in the present. This is the only place we can see the truth. Reality becomes unclouded here because we are not perceiving in psychological time. I guess we could also use clock time while we are in this state, but we could also use it while we are not in that state. So I don't think it's a necessary part of the vertical dimension and it seems to take away from his point to put it there.

I'm also not sure why you are attaching things like concepts and grief and memory to present moment awareness? Isn't the idea that that all exists on the horizontal dimension and the Now surpasses all that by going into the vertical?

I am probably misunderstanding something, just thought I would try to help you flush it out :)
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby ashley72 » Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:53 am

Strali,

Thanks for your input. I agree with your sentiments. The current representation has problems. Its a very hard thing to represent, which is why I thought it may be good to start a thread on it. I'm currently looking at it now from a Flip-Book Universe.

Image

Where each page, would be in the present moment at some stage in clock time. Mind-moments take us out of the present moment, distorting our reality. Thus, creating a gap in the continuous stream of NOW. This could be represented like this below.

Image


Being or present moment awareness.... would be aware of the Book and both time - space concepts, and mind-moments.

I want others to challenge this representation so I can see if it adds any value as a visual pointer.
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby enigma » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:52 am

For most, the 'access portal' to the present moment involves ceasing the mental focus on past and future, but really, thoughts of past and future are occurring in the present moment and can't actually take one out of the present moment. As such, presence actually transcends past and future rather than dispensing with it as if to go off in a different direction.

If I were doing a visual, I would use concentric spheres to represent this transcendent function. The movement from presence to 'not present', then, would be a constriction of focus into and out of mind's temporal framework; expansion and contraction of the focus of attention rather than a vertical vs horizontal movement.
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Re: CLOCK TIME Vs. PSYCHOLOGICAL TIME

Postby ashley72 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 10:30 am

Imaginary time as termed by Stephen Hawkins. Has a horizontal and vertical axis.

Imaginery time is difficult to visualize. If we imagine "regular time" as a horizontal line running between "past" in one direction and "future" in the other, then imaginary time would run perpendicular to this line as the imaginary numbers run perpendicular to the real numbers in the complex plane. However, imaginary time is not imaginary in the sense that it is unreal or made-up — it simply runs in a direction different from the type of time we experience. In essence, imaginary time is a way of looking at the time dimension as if it were a dimension of space: you can move forward and backward along imaginary time, just like you can move right and left in space. Stephen Hawkins


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_time

This YouTube video covers extra time dimensions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDajcGcKiAM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
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