About destiny

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About destiny

Postby Clouded » Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:04 pm

How come some people attract good fortune and others don't? I think my soul has learned its lesson, why do unpleasant things keep happening to me and the people I love? Can't my mind catch a break? What is it with all this bad karma? Am I destined to always suffer in mental anguish?
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: About destiny

Postby Fore » Fri Nov 29, 2013 8:27 pm

Could be worse, you could be in hell,

"Then the hell-wardens torture [the evil-doer] with what's called a five-fold imprisonment. They drive a red-hot iron stake through one hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other hand, they drive a red-hot iron stake through one foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the other foot, they drive a red-hot iron stake through the middle of his chest. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Then the hell-wardens lay him down and slice him with axes. Then they hold him feet up & head down and slice him with adzes. Then they harness him to a chariot and drive him back & forth over ground that is burning, blazing, & glowing. Then they make him climb up & down a vast mountain of embers that is burning, blazing, & glowing. Then they hold him feet up & head down and plunge him into a red-hot copper cauldron that is burning, blazing, & glowing. There he boils with bubbles foaming. And as he is boiling there with bubbles foaming, he goes now up, he goes now down, he goes now around. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted. [4]

"Then the hell-wardens throw him into the Great Hell. And as to the Great Hell, monks:

It's four-cornered & has four gates
set in the middle of each side.
It's surrounded by an iron fortress wall
and roofed with iron.
Its floor is made of red-hot iron,
heated, fully blazing.
It stands always, spreading 100 leagues all around.


"The flame that leaps from the eastern wall of the Great Hell strikes the western wall. The flame that leaps from the western wall strikes the eastern wall. The flame that leaps from the northern wall strikes the southern wall. The flame that leaps from the southern wall strikes the northern wall. The flame that leaps from the bottom strikes the top. The flame that leaps from the top strikes the bottom. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"There comes a time when, ultimately, with the passing of a long stretch of time, the eastern gate of the Great Hell opens. He runs there, rushing quickly. As he runs there, rushing quickly, his outer skin burns, his inner skin burns, his flesh burns, his tendons burn, even his bones turn to smoke. When [his foot] is lifted, he is the just same. [5] But when he finally arrives, the door slams shut. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"There comes a time when, ultimately, with the passing of a long stretch of time, the western gate of the Great Hell opens... the northern gate... the southern gate of the Great Hell opens. He runs there, rushing quickly. As he runs there, rushing quickly, his outer skin burns, his inner skin burns, his flesh burns, his tendons burn, even his bones turn to smoke. When [his foot] is lifted, he is the just same. But when he finally arrives, the door slams shut. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"There comes a time when, ultimately, with the passing of a long stretch of time, the eastern gate of the Great Hell opens. He runs there, rushing quickly. As he runs there, rushing quickly, his outer skin burns, his inner skin burns, his flesh burns, his tendons burn, even his bones turn to smoke. When [his foot] is lifted, he is the just same. He gets out through the gate. But right next to the Great Hell is a vast Excrement Hell. He falls into that. And in that Excrement Hell needle-mouth beings bore into his outer skin. Having bored into his outer skin, they bore into his inner skin... his flesh... his tendons... the bone. Having bored into the bone, they feed on the marrow. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Right next to the Excrement Hell is the vast Hot Ashes Hell. He falls into that. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Right next to the Hot Ashes Hell is the vast Simbali Forest, [with trees] reaching up a league, covered with thorns sixteen fingerbreadths long — burning, blazing, & glowing. He enters that and is made to climb up & down them. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Right next to the Simbali Forest is the vast Sword-leaf Forest. He enters that. There the leaves, stirred by the wind, cut off his hand, cut off his foot, cut off his hand & foot, cut off his ear, cut off his nose, cut off his ear & nose. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Right next to the Sword-leaf Forest is the vast Lye-water River. He falls into that. There he is swept downstream, he is swept upstream, he is swept downstream & upstream. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Then the hell-wardens pull him out with a hook and, placing him on the ground, say to him, 'Well, good man, what do you want?' He replies, 'I'm hungry, venerable sirs.' So the hell-wardens pry open his mouth with red-hot iron tongs — burning, blazing, & glowing — and throw into it a copper ball, burning, blazing, & glowing. It burns his lips, it burns his mouth, it burns his stomach and comes out the lower side, carrying along his bowels & intestines. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Then the hell-wardens say to him, 'Well, good man, what do you want?' He replies, 'I'm thirsty, venerable sirs.' So the hell-wardens pry open his mouth with red-hot iron tongs — burning, blazing, & glowing — and pour into it molten copper, burning, blazing, & glowing. It burns his lips, it burns his mouth, it burns his stomach and comes out the lower side, carrying along his bowels & intestines. There he feels painful, racking, piercing feelings, yet he does not die as long as his evil kamma is not exhausted.

"Then the hell-wardens throw him back into the Great Hell once more. [6]
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Re: About destiny

Postby dijmart » Fri Nov 29, 2013 9:35 pm

Geesh fore..lol. don't really know what to say to that. :shock:
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Re: About destiny

Postby far_eastofwest » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:01 pm

dijmart wrote:Geesh fore..lol. don't really know what to say to that. :shock:


Well I know.... um.... was gonaa say 'off his ####ing head'.... but in actual fact, that is being too sweet and 'thinking the best of others', which i've just given up as of this morning, so.... just a nasty person to post such stuff as a response to a simple post.
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Especially when there is no cat....
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Re: About destiny

Postby Clouded » Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:38 am

Don't be silly, I am already in hell. :P

I'm just wondering why some people are more blessed than others. Is it already predetermined for us, like written in the stars or something. Does everything really happen for a reason? Do these things really need to happen to me, and why these things out of all things? In all honesty, I'd trade all my life's knowledge with someone whose living a superficial, ignorant but HAPPY life. I'd rather be that girl whose obsessed with parties, being popular, looking good and owning material stuff than Socrates here.

Also, I don't get it, is experiencing negative feelings part of human nature or not? I've read a couple of books and some say that the drive to compete, jealousy, anger and sadness are what makes us human. Aren't most (all) of them caused by illusions? So illusions are part of human nature? But then I'm told that I'm pure love, or does that just apply to my soul and not my human form?

Thanks, and please serious answers this time or ignore me.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: About destiny

Postby karmarider » Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:58 pm

Clouded wrote:I'm just wondering why some people are more blessed than others. Is it already predetermined for us, like written in the stars or something. Does everything really happen for a reason? Do these things really need to happen to me, and why these things out of all things? In all honesty, I'd trade all my life's knowledge with someone whose living a superficial, ignorant but HAPPY life. I'd rather be that girl whose obsessed with parties, being popular, looking good and owning material stuff than Socrates here.


The feeling that others are more blessed than us seems to be prevalent. I'm not sure that people are differently blessed; it doesn't seem that way to me. In any case, the more relevant question, at least the way I see it, is, am I feeling blessed? Do I feel blessed, human, sane, easy?

If I feel a negative emotion, these days I see that as a indication that there is something I am not quite clear about just yet.

On the larger question, does everything really happen for a reason, yes I believe it does. I believe in our depths we call for and choose certain experiences and our reactions to these experiences determines how we flow through them.
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Re: About destiny

Postby Fore » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:08 pm

Hi clouded,

Hell is only one plane of existence that one may be reborn into, there are 31 planes of existence from hell(the lowest grossest plane) to the highest subtlest plane in the immaterial world. You have done very good past actions in your past lives and as a result have been awarded this precious human birth.

A human birth is extremely rare, it is said that if a blind tortoise was at the bank of the ocean and at the other end of the ocean someone threw in a life ring, and this life ring was floating with the currents and could go anywhere the currents carried it, and this blind tortoise entered the water and submerged, and this tortoise submerged for 100 years at a time, and during this 100 years he would also float with the currents, the rarity of human birth is the same as if when this blind tortoise surfaced his head would surface inside of this life ring.

A human birth is a delicate balance of pleasure and pain, we have this rare ability to experience all the planes of existence, from the most unpleasant to the most pleasant. Hells fire may arise at a time in our life, and this will afford us the opportunity to let it burn away those defilements of aversion. This is the same for pleasant sensations they also arise and afford us the opportunity to break the habit of clinging and craving these sensations.

When the unpleasantness arises we have the habit of pushing it away, we refuse to look at it. Also when the pleasant arises we crave and cling to these feelings, we hoard them and refuse to share them. This becomes apparent when we look at life, how many times have we walked past a homeless person begging for help and just can't allow ourselves to see them and help them. Also look at the wealthy, why don't they share their wealth instead of clinging to it like a form of security. It's a sickness that we all are afflicted with to some degree or another.

You should never wish to go back to sleep clouded, you have awoken, you may be fighting it lying in bed and hitting the snooze button, but you will eventually awaken. You have evolved past those who still crave sense pleasures blindly, and although it may feel like a curse it is evolution.

Embrace this and come to experience the true peace that is free from sense phenomenon.
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Re: About destiny

Postby Clouded » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:14 am

When opportunities arise in my life that may lead to so called 'success' or 'happiness', I always react to them in fear and push them away. Am I afraid of success and happiness? I don't want to allow myself to experience pleasant feelings because I believe that I don't deserve them because I am me and I hate myself and I only want the worst for myself?
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: About destiny

Postby dijmart » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:33 pm

Clouded, you may want to think about getting some counseling. People on this board want to help, but they are not trained in dealing with someone with clinical depression or severe self hate. One wrong word or piece of advice can send some over the edge. I hope you get the professional help you need.

Diana
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Re: About destiny

Postby tod » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:57 pm

Bentinho Massaro on endless bliss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgbRE3KMswI
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Re: About destiny

Postby Fore » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:21 am

dijmart wrote:Clouded, you may want to think about getting some counseling. People on this board want to help, but they are not trained in dealing with someone with clinical depression or severe self hate. One wrong word or piece of advice can send some over the edge. I hope you get the professional help you need.

Diana


Well said Diana.

I certainly hope that posting about hell was taken in good spirits clouded, I had no idea you felt so depressed. I think Diana makes a lot of sense, and you should seek some professional counselling. I don't think anyone here would want to hurt you intentionally but you seem in a very fragile state and that may occur.

Be well,
Fore
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Re: About destiny

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:09 am

Clouded - I don't worry about you asking the 'hard' questions.
I believe that if you find yourself overwhelmingly floundering, rather than authentically sharing the confusion arising, you will find help and I agree that would be a prudent course of action, but I also understand how the 'harder questions' and experiences scare folks.
Balancing logic and intuition, you didn't react badly to the 'hell' stuff, you stuck your tongue out at it as it deserved in your assessment and you buried deeper into your questioning.

Karmarider said: The feeling that others are more blessed than us seems to be prevalent. I'm not sure that people are differently blessed; it doesn't seem that way to me. In any case, the more relevant question, at least the way I see it, is, am I feeling blessed? Do I feel blessed, human, sane, easy?

If I feel a negative emotion, these days I see that as a indication that there is something I am not quite clear about just yet.

Love this calm man - holding space for things to either dissipate or become clearer in unfolding experience is wise indeed :)

Clouded said: When opportunities arise in my life that may lead to so called 'success' or 'happiness', I always react to them in fear and push them away. Am I afraid of success and happiness? I don't want to allow myself to experience pleasant feelings because I believe that I don't deserve them because I am me and I hate myself and I only want the worst for myself?


My answer to this question is maybe, maybe not - only you can answer it, but obviously you have conflicting 'evidence' being presented to you and you are trying to weigh them up for validity.

Only you choose your response to a thing, but you are not alone in the unfolding of your and others' experiencing.

Look again at how you are 'framing' the question/s - let alone inhibiting the experience as something you don't invite - there are two aspects here - the opportunity arising - it may be in your destiny for it to arise, but that does not dictate what you do with it.

I love Neale Donald Walsch's notion on this "I do not presume to choose for you.'
No thing or one but you does the asking or the answering.

In free and unfettered love that is the equilibrium of gratitude and generosity, when one seeks the answer to a question the many aspects of the answer will arise for noticing - what you do with them is absolutely your choice.

So you are free to choose what you do or do not do with any 'opportunity arising'.
Whether you choose to interact with/in it, reject it, learn from it, experience, evaluate, review and/or add into your wisdom born of experience.

It may or may not have anything to do with any other participant within the experience.

There s a third aspect as well. Sometimes it's not about us - we are instruments of others' learning, participating in their questioning and answering. So in this example, for all one knows the 'lesson', the experience of holding something precious and dangling it in front of another who rejects it may not have any thing to do with you - it may be that you are an instrument of an other's learning. Say if you reject a notion and they have a veneer about it unveiled and they choose whatever they choose.

I'm going to pull this apart a little, but only you know your own answers, and I would not presume to answer for you
When opportunities arise in my life that may lead to so called 'success' or 'happiness', I always react to them in fear and push them away. Am I afraid of success and happiness?

Maybe you simply have a 'different' measure of what success and happiness is to those being offered to you. You don't have to fall into other people's dreams and values.

While it may feel that you 'always' respond to opportunities in the same way, it's more likely that you notice the resistance when you push them away, and don't notice when you don't because there is no resistance creating agitation.

I don't want to allow myself to experience pleasant feelings because I believe that I don't deserve them because I am me and I hate myself and I only want the worst for myself?

Who or what says this is true?
Is it true - for you?
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: About destiny

Postby dijmart » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:34 am

Um, I'm not put off by harder questions or experiences? I simply notice "red flags" in Clouded's last post which have escalated from her prior posts on other threads. They usually seemed depressed in nature, but this time, more so, with a hopeless/helpless twist- stating she is hating herself and only wanting the worst for herself. People think the person suffering with a mental issue will always give signs at all times to warn their situation has worsened, this is not always the case. Many will go to irreversible, extreme measures without telling a soul. So, when communicating on an internet forum and someone says some of the things Clouded has, then I think some professional help should be recommended, unless you ARE a licensed therapist?
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Re: About destiny

Postby Clouded » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:53 am

I don't know what my subconscious is thinking, I cannot give you an answer, I just have ideas, one piece of the puzzle and it may be from the wrong puzzle. Every night, I fall asleep to the Four Agreements audio book in hopes that it will register in my subconscious and that I will apply them in my everyday thinking. First time I read Fore's reply, I took it personally and I assumed that I was being shoo-ed away from the forum because I was always playing victim and people don't want me to spam the boards with all my unnecessary whining and attention seeking. I also assumed that because I admitted of being abusive to my mother, people now viewed me differently with less empathy and now I'm being identified as the girl who disrespected her mother. I'm still the same person, does it matter that I do terrible things from time to time? So my image has changed? But I don't really have an image to begin with so I'm off the hook I guess. I'm trying here, I am making some sort of progress by not acting on those negative thoughts and bring them one step closer to manifestation. If you have a problem with me, than that's your problem and your problem only.

Meh, I don't know what I am. I'm not sad enough to consider myself depressed. I still eat sometimes and sleep an appropriate number of hours. I don't know if I hate myself, but it certainly feels that I don't love myself. I am using all this free time to learn to not seek other people's approval for my self worth. For instance, I recently went to see the movie Frozen by myself and I braided my hair like the main character because screw what society deems as age appropriate hairstyles and I don't know why people rarely go to the cinema alone, they usually invite their partner or friends, this is a movie after all, so no conversations involved or required. Needless to say, I felt like an idiot because of my childish hairstyle but I kept it because I wouldn't let my fears of other people's opinions affect my decision to wear my hair like this and I felt inferior because I went there alone and I don't have any friends anymore let alone a boyfriend, as if I'm not worthy of people's company. It turns out that I have a hard time thinking of my worth as equal, I can only think in polar extremes, I'm either superior or inferior to other people. I guess that I can't believe something if I've never experienced it. If I feel like shit, positive self talk doesn't help me because these are not my true beliefs at the moment. I can keep telling myself that I am just as worthy as anyone else but my feelings and state of mind does not reciprocate which tells me that I need to change some unconscious mental processes and this is why I've opted for self hypnosis.

I'd like to believe that I am worthy, that my life is important, that I am at One with everything and that I will eternally love and be loved in return, but it's not that easy. Somewhere it sounds like utter bullshit.
"If you want to know what your were like in the past, look at your body today. If you want to know what your body will be like in the future, look at your thoughts today." -Deepak
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Re: About destiny

Postby Fore » Tue Dec 03, 2013 3:47 pm

dijmart wrote:Um, I'm not put off by harder questions or experiences? I simply notice "red flags" in Clouded's last post which have escalated from her prior posts on other threads. They usually seemed depressed in nature, but this time, more so, with a hopeless/helpless twist- stating she is hating herself and only wanting the worst for herself.


Again Diana, this was my assessment of the situation as well.

There are many types of professional help, it does not have to come in the form of a Phd. but it should be face to face, so there is a level of intimacy and so the teacher can observe your behaviours and condition. I am not a teacher and what I practice can not be learned on the internet. The healing insights cannot come from thinking or theoretical knowledge, they can only come from first hand experience. All any of us can do is walk the path to the truth, and if we see some lost in the clouds we pull them down so they can continue their journey. Also if we see someone stuck in a hole we try our best to pull them out, again so they can continue walking their path.

No one here can take a step for anyone else, we each have to do our own walking.

clouded wrote:First time I read Fore's reply, I took it personally and I assumed that I was being shoo-ed away from the forum because I was always playing victim and people don't want me to spam the boards with all my unnecessary whining and attention seeking.


That was not my intention, I have been away from this forum for some time and had no current impression of you or your current state of mind. I just wanted to give you some perspective on how bad things can really get, and that in all probability things are not that bad in comparison.

Whine away all you want, but what you said was not whining, it was a cry for help, get off the computer and go find a real person to talk to.
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