Question about a Tolle-quote (rebirth)

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Re: Question about a Tolle-quote (rebirth)

Postby smiileyjen101 » Thu May 29, 2014 6:40 am

I'm simply demonstrating that whether talking about what happens after the body "dies" or talking about what it is like to walk on the surface of Mars is speculation, because it doesn't come from actual factual experience.



Are you then negating the experiences of others as if your perspective of their experience/s, is the fact, or are you willing to accept that your perspective is a belief? One can accept facts without it being a spiritual / religious belief.
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Re: Question about a Tolle-quote (rebirth)

Postby Webwanderer » Thu May 29, 2014 6:46 am

beginnersmind wrote:I'm simply demonstrating that whether talking about what happens after the body "dies" or talking about what it is like to walk on the surface of Mars is speculation,

Be that as it may, just because one is engaging in speculation or imagination does not mean the perspective through that speculation is inaccurate. While I may not know from direct experience what it may be like to walk on Mars, and I have no direct experience with the 'facts' on the ground there, the anecdotal evidence I've studied strongly suggest that the conditions there offer good reason not to go walking about in shorts and a t-shirt. I know it's still just speculation but is useful just the same.

On the other hand just because someone is citing what they believe to be 'facts' does not mean their interpretation of those facts is accurate. There has been many a false conclusion made on misunderstood, misrepresented, or insufficient facts.

In either case there are beliefs at its core, and beliefs are regarded as truth to the one who believes. Furthermore, our beliefs may be accurate, or may not. As individuals, beliefs are the filters through which we live our lives.

WW
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Re: Question about a Tolle-quote (rebirth)

Postby beginnersmind » Thu May 29, 2014 1:59 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:
I'm simply demonstrating that whether talking about what happens after the body "dies" or talking about what it is like to walk on the surface of Mars is speculation, because it doesn't come from actual factual experience.





Are you then negating the experiences of others as if your perspective of their experience/s, is the fact, or are you willing to accept that your perspective is a belief? One can accept facts without it being a spiritual / religious belief.


I'm not negating anyone's "experience" Jen. Read what I said. Not what you want me to say. If one is talking about something without actual factual experience of what they are talking about, then they are speculating on the subject. Or to put it on Tolle´s analogy, you can study honey, talk about honey, and even write a Ph.D on honey, but until you actually taste it, you don't know it.

So Jen, if you want, please share your actual experience of life after death and walking on Mars.
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Re: Question about a Tolle-quote (rebirth)

Postby beginnersmind » Thu May 29, 2014 2:11 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
beginnersmind wrote:I'm simply demonstrating that whether talking about what happens after the body "dies" or talking about what it is like to walk on the surface of Mars is speculation,

Be that as it may, just because one is engaging in speculation or imagination does not mean the perspective through that speculation is inaccurate. While I may not know from direct experience what it may be like to walk on Mars, and I have no direct experience with the 'facts' on the ground there, the anecdotal evidence I've studied strongly suggest that the conditions there offer good reason not to go walking about in shorts and a t-shirt. I know it's still just speculation but is useful just the same.

On the other hand just because someone is citing what they believe to be 'facts' does not mean their interpretation of those facts is accurate. There has been many a false conclusion made on misunderstood, misrepresented, or insufficient facts.

In either case there are beliefs at its core, and beliefs are regarded as truth to the one who believes. Furthermore, our beliefs may be accurate, or may not. As individuals, beliefs are the filters through which we live our lives.

WW


It doesn't mean the speculation is accurate either. As far as conclusions, from this conversation you'll notice I haven't made a conclusion about the "facts" of the "afterlife" or what it is or what it is not. Only that without actual experience it is speculation. That's all I'm saying.
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Re: Question about a Tolle-quote (rebirth)

Postby Webwanderer » Thu May 29, 2014 4:24 pm

beginnersmind wrote:It doesn't mean the speculation is accurate either. As far as conclusions, from this conversation you'll notice I haven't made a conclusion about the "facts" of the "afterlife" or what it is or what it is not. Only that without actual experience it is speculation.

So you would agree then that speculation can be a valuable asset in the consideration of matters that we have no direct experience in? That speculation, combined with the study of available information and evidence, can be a useful approach in developing an understanding of what might happen at death, or what conditions exist on the surface of Mars? Could we say then that this is the process of reasoning out what is most likely given the available evidence?

WW
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Re: Question about a Tolle-quote (rebirth)

Postby beginnersmind » Thu May 29, 2014 6:33 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
beginnersmind wrote:It doesn't mean the speculation is accurate either. As far as conclusions, from this conversation you'll notice I haven't made a conclusion about the "facts" of the "afterlife" or what it is or what it is not. Only that without actual experience it is speculation.



So you would agree then that speculation can be a valuable asset in the consideration of matters that we have no direct experience in? That speculation, combined with the study of available information and evidence, can be a useful approach in developing an understanding of what might happen at death, or what conditions exist on the surface of Mars? Could we say then that this is the process of reasoning out what is most likely given the available evidence?

WW


WW, I never said speculation was necessarily a bad thing, only that what IS occurring IS speculation.
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Re: Question about a Tolle-quote (rebirth)

Postby Webwanderer » Thu May 29, 2014 7:44 pm

beginnersmind wrote:WW, I never said speculation was necessarily a bad thing, only that what IS occurring IS speculation.

Fair enough. Your posts however, seemed to be emphasizing the limitations in speculation to the exclusion of its benefits. Apologies if I misread them. Maybe I was 'speculating' overly much on your intent. :wink: I'm glad however, that we have cleared up the misunderstanding. Where would we be after all, without imagination and hypothesis to explore possibilities?

WW
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Re: Question about a Tolle-quote (rebirth)

Postby Testigo » Thu May 25, 2017 8:19 am

Our experiences are the ways Being is manifesting through our boddies.
We were sent here to witness and experience this dance of form. In our realm, that of form, subject to the appearance of time, we play a general roll with particular characteristics that respond to our culture, family, education and genetic heritage, those that many call "karma".
We should no expect "stairs" on which in our incarnations, one after the other, a particular spirit climbs up one after the other incarnations with a short pause of rest after each life towards the top where lies de promise of liberation.
Every form, independently of in which period of time our conventions want to put it, is, has been, and will be a manifestation of Being but always in the Now, and being ONE with everything.
Putting my doubts in one sentence: If reincarnation exists, who or what then would reincarnate?
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