The Work of Byron Katie

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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby alex » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:11 am

Wow a 500 page essay on someone's victim story. The truth ain't easy, those who are shown their flaws and who aren't true seekers will generally go into denial and project their 'fucked upness' onto the person doing the showing. That's what that story sounds like to me.
I wouldn't by-pass The Work because of one (slightly emotionally damaged sounding) person's opinion.
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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby Phil2 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:48 am

alex wrote:Wow a 500 page essay on someone's victim story. The truth ain't easy, those who are shown their flaws and who aren't true seekers will generally go into denial and project their 'fucked upness' onto the person doing the showing. That's what that story sounds like to me.
I wouldn't by-pass The Work because of one (slightly emotionally damaged sounding) person's opinion.


Yes seeing this too ... a victim blaming others for their own failure and wrong expectations ...

Well, 'business a usual' I would say ... maybe she did not receive this advice given by Queen Victoria to her son, future King Edward VII:

"Never explain, never complain"
...

:lol:
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby Onceler » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:25 pm

I would say the theme of the story is self reliance, either way you look at it.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby randomguy » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:41 pm

Onceler wrote:I would say the theme of the story is self reliance, either way you look at it.


Quite right. This is where the story has some beauty to it. On who's authority does one wake up to? What help is it if one person let's say a super-guru says "you are now awake to your true nature" and then believing it? It is recognized on one's own authority isn't it? But it's also entertaining the workings of the mind described in the story. You are my infallible guru, when I ask you for a bite of your pizza and you say no, there is something wrong with you. Hey, stories are tasty and the habit can be hard to shake.
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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby alex » Wed Aug 13, 2014 2:09 pm

Self reliance for sure, you're the only one who can really get you there! Also, openness to having a look at yourself honestly.. openness to testing another's view and wisdom to see if there is truth in it.
I was blessed to sit with a very direct and very awake teacher. It's not all love and space and peace. A true teacher will point out what you can't and don't want to see. A true teacher is all about truth. Truth only. Bringing the light of truth to all that is unconscious in you. That sure can be uncomfortable but if you are also into truth then you're going to want to hear it. You'll have to be brave enough to look for yourself.
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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby Phil2 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:16 am

DavidB wrote:Before we become too enamored with "the work", we might want to inform ourselves a little more.

http://m.friendfeed-media.com/277ac5ef9 ... ca9127db9e

Janaki's experience with Byron Katie was quite enlightening, but not in the ways you might expect. Byron isn't quite the person we all get the impression she is.


There is however at least one point I agree with Janaki, it is about the similarities between Byron Katie's method and what is known as 'Cognitive Therapy'.

Janaki wrote:Katie emphasizes very strongly that The Work is not therapy. She has always done this. On
the Release of Liability form for The School it says, It is not therapeutic in design. I was
always completely in line with this, and whenever anyone would compare The Work with
therapy, I would argue against it quite strongly. The comparison that I heard most of all was
with Cognitive Therapy.


Here are some extracts from Wikipedia about Cognitive therapy and Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_ ... al_therapy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_therapy

Wikipedia wrote:Cognitive therapy is based on the cognitive model, which states that thoughts, feelings and behavior are all connected, and that individuals can move toward overcoming difficulties and meeting their goals by identifying and changing unhelpful or inaccurate thinking, problematic behavior, and distressing emotional responses. This involves the individual working collaboratively with the therapist to develop skills for testing and modifying beliefs, identifying distorted thinking, relating to others in different ways, and changing behaviors. Therapy may consist of testing the assumptions which one makes and looking for new information that could help shift the assumptions in a way that leads to different emotional or behavioral reactions. People who are working with a cognitive therapist often practice the use of more flexible ways to think and respond, learning to ask themselves whether their thoughts are completely true, and whether those thoughts are helping them to meet their goals.


According to Beck's theory of the etiology of depression, depressed people acquire a negative schema of the world in childhood and adolescence.
Beck also identified a number of other cognitive distortions, which can contribute to depression, including the following: arbitrary inference, selective abstraction, overgeneralization, magnification and minimization.

Therapists or computer-based programs use CBT techniques to help individuals challenge their patterns and beliefs and replace "errors in thinking such as overgeneralizing, magnifying negatives, minimizing positives and catastrophizing" with "more realistic and effective thoughts, thus decreasing emotional distress and self-defeating behavior."


So yes, clearly Byron Katie's work is very similar to CBT ... now was there an intentional 'plagiarism' from BK is another question ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby Phil2 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:31 am

Phil2 wrote:
So yes, clearly Byron Katie's work is very similar to CBT ... now was there an intentional 'plagiarism' from BK is another question ...


I would even add here another personal reflection. It is not uncommon to hear that the content of a teaching is not 'original', that the teacher copied or 'vulgarized' what others said before him.

It has been said that Eckhart Tolle has plagiarized Buddhism, that Eric Berne had 'vulgarized' Freud's theories on the 'Ego-superego and Id' and translated it into a more comprehensible "Parent- Adult - Child" model in his 'Transactional Analysis' theory etc.

So I would say here that there clearly is a demand for simplification of complex theories in order to make it simple and understandable by non-specialists ... and this simplification has its own merit per se ... this is also why those teachers are successful, there clearly is a 'market' for clear theories and simple practices ...

As some humorist said "All things have been said already but as nobody listens, they must always be repeated"

:lol:
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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby randomguy » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:03 am

alex wrote: It's not all love and space and peace. A true teacher will point out what you can't and don't want to see. A true teacher is all about truth. Truth only. Bringing the light of truth to all that is unconscious in you. That sure can be uncomfortable but if you are also into truth then you're going to want to hear it. You'll have to be brave enough to look for yourself.

Well said. A focus on truth exposes the false for what it is. The false exists only in the perception of reality while assuming an identity that is other than reality itself. It is all self reflection.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby Phil2 » Fri Aug 15, 2014 11:16 am

Here's an interesting interview from Byron Katie where she explains her 'enlightenment' experience and some other interesting considerations ...

http://realization.org/p/byron-katie/ma ... iew.1.html

BK: I am devoted to total world peace. I am the world. Of course I would have all the parts of me showing in that place within me for the party. I supply a way, a path home and they follow it or not. As it should be.


"I am the world" was also one of the favorite statements from J. Krishnamurti ... it seems the nature of their inner experience was very similar ... "the observer is the observed" ... no more division between the world and 'me' ... 'non-dual' experience ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby DavidB » Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:10 am

I thought you were a guru, then I saw you pooping.


Of course, we are all human, and as humans, we adhere to the forces of nature. Nature dictates that we "poop". And that's fine.

But by "poop" you might be meaning mistakes, and as humans, we make mistakes. And that's fine as well.

I was simply pointing out a perspective given by one of Katie's nearest and dearest followers. She witnessed and experienced Katie in a way that we did not. This however does not entirely mean that Katie's message is invalid, it simply means we have another perspective to contemplate.

Turning it around and questioning our beliefs from every angle until those questions are exhausted, is a very good way to get closer to the truth. Good scientists do that every day. The danger however, is in expanding beyond our level of maturity, in a way that moves beyond intelligence and then enters a realm of blind intensity.

This blind intensity can gain a mind of it's own, and become destructive.

This is why stillness/peace, is far more important than intelligence.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: The Work of Byron Katie

Postby jongibirdi1974 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:33 am

This isnt an attack on byron katie as ive never met her..ive seen interviews where she says she felt too unworthy to sleep on a bed before she saw the light..i dunno what she says just doesnt move me at all.
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