Your Way is Yours Alone

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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Phil2 » Tue Aug 19, 2014 2:27 pm

alex wrote:Jack, I think Phil purposefully tries to push our buttons... which I kind of love him for. Life is so amazing! Teachers everywhere.


Thanks Alex ... I love you too ...

All you need is love
la la la la la
All you need is love, love, love
That is all you need

:)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby KathleenBrugger » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:46 pm

alex wrote:Jen, sure... it's all beautiful and yummy and we're all just where we're meant to be.. but it doesn't mean we can't make movements to change the world for the better, to light the fire of truth in other's hearts. What's the point of every spiritual teacher out there? Why do they bother to teach? If one is operating from a higher consciousness (not saying I'm certain that Jack is) and sees unconsciousness in those seeking truth then ofcourse the natural progression is to guide them to where they are stuck and what they can't see. Your post sounded like a pretty way of saying 'it's all a yummy big goop of okayness, really, so let's not bother doing anything about all the suffering.'

I agree Alex. There is truth and wisdom in what jen said, absolutely, and in my personal experience I have seen wonders and miracles happen after a little push. My husband is a ferocious spiritual warrior at times. He has no patience for small talk and will always nudge the people at any gathering to go deeper. There are many examples I can give, but I'll restrain myself to two.

Many years ago my brothers, sisters, and mother all gathered at my house. This was before any of us had kids, and one evening we were talking together in the living room. As many of you have heard me say before, my parents had a messy divorce when I was 14, and my two brothers and two sisters and i had lots of unresolved issues. Arthur gently prodded and pushed us towards taking this opportunity of being together and using it to heal, and what transpired was, I'll use the word again because it fits, miraculous. We're a midwestern family with a long tradition of suppressed emotions, but that night we all shared our feelings about the divorce and talked about the impact it had had on our lives. We all cried, and at the end of the evening did a snake dance around the room in joy. I get chills right now thinking about it. My family has never been the same since; there is a closeness that nothing can take away, and I can promise you that this opening would NEVER have happened without Arthur's push. Those cocoons we were all in would still be closed.

Another time we had moved to a small town where an old friend of Arthur's lived. We had expected to have a lot of time together with this man, but he acted really stand-offish. We couldn't figure it out, and felt like maybe we'd insulted him or something. One day when we did see him, Arthur pressed him--"there's something going on here, what is it?" Turns out the friend's relationship was teetering on the edge and he just didn't have room for relationship. Arthur offered his help, and we spent many nights over the next few weeks helping the friend and his lover untangle the knots. They did eventually split up, but with a lot less acrimony. And along the way we all shared some amazing experiences; once again brought about entirely by Arthur's push.

Yes we all have our own paths, I am a firm believer in that. And the guru also whacks the student with a stick sometimes. Not that I'm saying Jack is a guru--he isn't saying that, i don't think. But there are times when we could all use a little nudge I think, when we've gotten complacent or stuck.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 1:50 am

Alex said: Jen, sure... it's all beautiful and yummy and we're all just where we're meant to be.. but it doesn't mean we can't make movements to change the world for the better, to light the fire of truth in other's hearts. What's the point of every spiritual teacher out there? Why do they bother to teach? If one is operating from a higher consciousness (not saying I'm certain that Jack is) and sees unconsciousness in those seeking truth then of course the natural progression is to guide them to where they are stuck and what they can't see. Your post sounded like a pretty way of saying 'it's all a yummy big goop of okayness, really, so let's not bother doing anything about all the suffering.'

Go Alex!! I love you girl!! :D
This ^ post for me is an example of where one, by example, creates an opening for one to encourage - not 'save', not 'rescue' but encourage - there's an energetic difference. It's a difference in acceptance of what is, enjoyment in what is and enthusiasm that feels 'yum' rather than 'yuck'.

"When you can be as happy in your sorrow as you are in your joy..."

So, for me what indeed is the point of every spiritual teacher out there? (Apart from giving us delicious little word quotes and sound bites that resonate with authenticity & wisdom that we feel harmoniously at our core and adopt with respect :wink: )

From the Coelho quote - to BE by example. As soon as any 'guru' starts using their opinions as gospel and making an enemy, obstacle, or means to an end of their awareness, or the awareness of others the energy changes. No thing 'wrong' with this, and it particularly seems to happen in the early stages of new stages of awareness until one learns to walk in the new energy.

Have you ever been in the company of a newly 'Born Again' anything .... :shock: They for all the world know who is going to hell and how they're getting there - in the zealousness of their new opinions. There's a difference between spiritual zealousness, and spiritual enthusiasm. One embraces, is in acceptance, enjoyment &or enthusiasm; the other separates - making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of a thing, person or situation. These differences are resonantly distinct - even when cloaked in the 'name of God'.

So I felt saying that unconsciousness is not okay --- was tipping into zealousness, and for me it was the same resonance / frequency of resistance to what is and the awareness, capacity & willingness of others, as Slow ride's opinions as to the cause of Zen's channelling awareness.


The straddling that I mentioned as seeing evidence that E2B is doing - in this quote is just yet another layer of awareness, building on capacity, and energising willingness.
I want to say E2B you are nailing the balancing act in awareness, capacity & willingness in self and others' perspectives and personal responsibilities. :D


Arthur's 'nudging' told by Katie above absolutely would have been helpful & respectful encouragement - hey guys, I know this is a shit situation, here's a possible way forward ..... (Katie you can correct me if I'm wrong). Not you guys are idiots for carrying on this way, can't you see you're creating your own suffering... and by the way that snake dance ... are you sure you lot aren't genetically insane?? :wink:

Your post sounded like a pretty way of saying 'it's all a yummy big goop of okayness, really, so let's not bother doing anything about all the suffering.

I can appreciate that's how you interpreted it Alex, but if you read it again you will realise that no where in there did I actually say that - you - in your awareness, capacity & willingness interpreted, translated & responded to what it 'said to you', which is different to 'what I said'. Not rightly or wrongly, I appreciate you sharing your perspective.

It gives me an opportunity to express encouragement, because actually doing anything about suffering - rather than just having and supporting and expressing opinions about it - takes a great deal more awareness, capacity & willingness about the straddling in many directions and the impact that any action on our part will naturally have on others.

Look around the world for a moment and truly see how much suffering is being caused by making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of suffering in the name of 'helping' - all the wars, all the famines, all the domestic violence, all the preventable diseases, all the prisons are full.

However, if we were willing to put our awareness & capacity towards solutions in acceptance of 'what is', only then can we seek to act wisely and respectfully. It takes more conscious energy to consult to increase our awareness on and of issues in order to really understand them - rather than already have an opinion about them that we will fight over to maintain; to resource in healing and growing capacity rather than just shoot, bomb, destroy or incarcerate our 'enemies'; and act continuously in harmony with awareness and respect for all the perspectives in awareness, capacity & willingness, rather than siding with one or two of them and then ordering people to do as we would like.

We cannot do this if at the outset we use our opinions as if they are gospel. As soon as we narrow the focus we lose touch with others, and that's how we win the battles, but lose the war, create winners and losers, even in good intention.

By example, not by opinion, we change the world.

The mention of the butterfly is not just a flowery nicey nicey thing either. It is true we would damage the next stage if we circumvent (or seek to hurry along) any of the steps in the unfolding process - and it is a wonderful example in nature of the incredible cycle of life, precious in all our stages of it. One might think of our unaware stage as the caterpillar - there is no thing wrong with being a caterpillar - it's wonderful. Then one might think of our awakening as the metamorphic stage.

If we were to animate the creature in this timelapse video - imagine it at the stage where it unfolds its tiny wings before its fully grown wings emerge - it would be as excited as Zen :D but it would be unwise of it to say "Hey all you caterpillars down there --- look --- do this --- I've got wings!!! How cool is this!! Climb up here, it's wrong for you all to stay down there on the ground eating leaves, quick, climb up here!!!

All before it's even fully grown its own wings able to take flight :wink: Another character might be a concerned and careful caterpillar on the ground saying, "Don't listen to him, that will never happen to us, it would mean we've totally lost our minds. We just need to keep eating these leaves and we'll find our way home another way, there's a bullfrog over there who knows all about it, so don't listen to him". :wink:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AUeM8MbaIk

Yes action is part of it, but all in its own time, respectful of differences in awareness, capacity & indeed, willingness. If a caterpillar says, 'No way, I'm not climbing up on a tree'... they're telling you they are not ready.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby smiileyjen101 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:31 am

Zen said: Someone else I admire had told me something similar. But I wanted to do this for myself. To stand alone and learn my own way. To disregard the advice of someone I love and trust so that I can stand on my own two feet as an exploration of my independence. I had a feeling I'd end up moving to where they advised (where you advise) but I felt it was important to do it myself and this was enforced by energetic constrictions, openings and other guidance.


:D I love all that you are sharing Zen, and encourage you to keep on doing it for yourself, learning from the 'mis-takes' and absolutely go against every piece of advice you get knowing that it will only bring a 'different' experience.

What you are saying above is absolutely the freedom that we all have - to make our own way, in our own time, and explore the main road, the cross roads, the side roads and the unmarked paths in the wilderness. It's all an incredible journey.

No Alex, it won't always be pretty or easy, but it will all be okay underneath. Runstrails mentioned in another thread about a 'different' presence / awareness, one where the okayness of all crap is felt, experienced and accepted. When one sees another in this place, it's helpful to ask them first 'are they okay with it, is there anything you would like within my capacity to share?' rather than assume they need rescuing or make platitudes that things 'should' be different.


Phil2 said: Excellent post Jen .. for once I understood what you said (joking) :lol:

I like your expression "CEO of the universe" here ...

:lol: I cut it into tiny paragraphs with you in mind Phil :P

And I cannot take original credit for the CEO idea either - it's something that fell so deeply resonantly into me from reading the 'Conversations with God' books that I don't even know if it was said, or just felt, but it works a treat in many situations. Both in understanding my own reactions, and the reactions of others and bringing them into clarity.

Phil2 said: Yes, each person is the Artist of his own life, and he takes responsibility for it ... we can perceive here the influence of Don Miguel Ruiz ... and btw don't take this personally ...

I had that sense before I heard or read any of DMR's stuff, he just shares it so beautifully.

It's relevant that it's a nuance of my own 'Way' being my own - in co-creation with others.

I cannot even begin to tell you how deeply I fell into the gratitude & generosity of DMR though. In his presence - by his example, and by the utterance of that tiny statement ''Love, is the equilibrium of gratitude and generosity" that just melted me back into the light. It wasn't just the words that were each one perfect, building on his willingness to share his awareness & capacity to share. It was also that his energy was perfect equilibrium, his smile like a gazillion kisses, his voice like every note known precious and loved. He is IT, he is the personification of love in example - in the moments that I was in his presence, and I'm sure like all of us there are times when he's not. (and that's okay too!) That it was a completely serendipitous surprise, I had no idea who he was on the program list, it just felt like an incredible gift. But I have to say, I've felt that with many who I have serendipitously crossed paths with and been open to spending time with.

I'm reading the Fifth Agreement --- feels like I have been for ages --- it keeps losing me. That's probably that it's a blending of the 'voices' of him and his son. I keep falling off the frequency - which is all that happens sometimes with all of us in communication.

So, no, I don't take it personally, but love anyway :D
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby alex » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:42 am

It gives me an opportunity to express encouragement, because actually doing anything about suffering - rather than just having and supporting and expressing opinions about it - takes a great deal more awareness, capacity & willingness about the straddling in many directions and the impact that any action on our part will naturally have on others.


I like this. To truly help, a prerequisite is rather well functioning empathic abilities and being able to 'put yourself in the others shoes' along with a true want to serve and help. I totally get that and have been guilty of blindly throwing my truth out there without much thought for what the other really needs. It's not the right direction. One who is abiding as truth serves truth only, the truth that they are and the truth in others. It is a marriage and commitment and fidelity. It is not selfish.

As soon as any 'guru' starts using their opinions as gospel and making an enemy, obstacle, or means to an end of their awareness, or the awareness of others the energy changes.


I get what you are saying here, I think, but did you know that Gangaji actually hits people in their stomach and chest to blast them with energy and try and snap them out of their dreaming? She did this to my teacher Vishrant who was a student in her inner circle.
There are many stories of awake teachers throughout history being absolutely ruthless and not exactly pleasant.
I sat with Vishrant for three months and I found him absolutely terrifying. He told me that it's a normal and common part of being around awakened awareness. That which does not want you to awaken senses the danger.
His job was to point out selfishness, self obsession, arrogance, anger, victim stories and unconsciousness. It wasn't pleasant but I wouldn't change it for all the money in the world. What a blessing to have those things shown to me more clearly so that I could investigate them. I spent almost the entire day today as unknowingness, mystery perfumed with the sweet essense of truth. I was actually in a university classroom nearly blasting the roof off with love at one stage. There's no way I would have gotten this clear so fast without being shown where I was stuck.
I'm sure that at his deepest level and at Gangaji's deepest level they accept fully where those that are unconscious are at, but when they point out this unconsciousness it doesn't come across as nicey picey!
Perhaps you buy into the mainstream idea of spirituality and spiritual teachers being all love and nice stuff? I'm not sure. I think you'd be quite surprised if you sat in the presence of pure truth as a student to it.

Love you Jen. Just my two cents.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby alex » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:59 am

But really, I guess this is a discussion forum and there are no teachers and students here. It's been a great discussion. I did sense truth in Jack's words and applaud him for being ruthless in his integrity to that truth. We're all entitled to our opinion here huh.
Peace!!
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Phil2 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:38 am

alex wrote:His job was to point out selfishness, self obsession, arrogance, anger, victim stories and unconsciousness. It wasn't pleasant but I wouldn't change it for all the money in the world. What a blessing to have those things shown to me more clearly so that I could investigate them.


Excellent Alex. Of course a good teacher is not there to tell you what you want to hear, because what you want is to inflate and grow your ego and hear pleasant things ... a good teacher is there to get you out of ego ... and that's very unpleasant ... ego won't like it, that's sure ...

It is said in the Tao Te King:

"True words are not pleasant, pleasant words are not true."

... and we can also see in forums like this one how most posters don't like to be contradicted, it makes their ego suffer ... so it could be said that contradiction is not good for your ego ... but it's good for YOU ...

:lol:
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:31 am

Alex said: Perhaps you buy into the mainstream idea of spirituality and spiritual teachers being all love and nice stuff? I'm not sure. I think you'd be quite surprised if you sat in the presence of pure truth as a student to it.

Love you Jen. Just my two cents.

I love you too Alex. How we find our truth is also different for each of us. Some may feel the need to schedule it in as an activity, for me, life is my teacher. I only need look around, or be with others or what is, in presence and it just is.

The School of Life itself punches us in the guts and then says, 'So, deal with this with love and compassion. Show us who you really are'. (winded arrgghghghghgh! f*&^%!!!.... :wink: )

I may not always have been successful at staying in awareness, and I am aware that it's not all pretty; love is not all pretty and neither are the circumstances where we are most called to be who we really are. For me that has been in the noisy, bustling, heartbreaking, ego cracking, classrooms in the school of life, experiences showing growth or withdrawal in and of them self.

In terms of 'teachers', it's a label like anything else, in accuracy one may learn from others, (a mentor is merely one who allows their hindsight to be used by others as their foresight); but one still has to implement their own awareness, capacity & willingness to BE love. The 'not pretty' examples, the failings and the times of being a teacher for others, more by example than by design or any desire; absolutely in the moment with what is, have all been bitter-sweet, and that's okay too.

"Okay' for me is benign. It's there, but it is benign, it just is. Neither liked nor disliked. It just 'is' and to argue with it is fruitless and wasteful of our precious energies. So, don't think because I say something is 'okay', that I like it. It just is.

Phil said: Of course a good teacher is not there to tell you what you want to hear, because what you want is to inflate and grow your ego and hear pleasant things ... a good teacher is there to get you out of ego ... and that's very unpleasant ... ego won't like it, that's sure ...


Then life, if one is willing to live it fully, is an excellent teacher :D

alex wrote:
His (Its) job was (is) to point out selfishness, self obsession, arrogance, anger, victim stories and unconsciousness. It wasn't pleasant but I wouldn't change it for all the money in the world. What a blessing to have those things shown to me more clearly so that I could investigate them.


Yep, bitter-sweet blessings.

I don't see that my 'idea' of spirituality is anything other than how others may choose to describe my responses or sharing at times. In reality - in mere practicality - being love and compassion creates less suffering for self and others than egoic reactions, it's just an aware choice. Aware that I have a choice, aware that even in deep shit I still have that choice, and aware that no choice is wrong - it truly will just bring a different experience.

One does not know their true capacity until it has been tested by life, and just as you 'master' one aspect you get 'promoted' a grade or two as your awareness widens the scope of experience. Then you can, if you choose, if you are willing (and if you don't cave in to the pee your pants feeling :wink: ) start all over again like a whole new subject.

Have you ever studied formally - seen the class outline and thought crap, I'll never be able to learn all this, no way I'm going to be able to do a 5000 word paper on a topic I know nothing about --- then full on stress in the middle of the semester or term, then eek, eegads, oh crap have I studied enough for the exams.... no matter how much attention one has paid, no matter how much dedication one has had, the exam results will only show a 'mark' of that - while a 'low mark' may mean 'fail' and 'repeat' and a higher mark may mean 'satisfactory' or 'above average'... we all are always learning, and the only reason for learning is to apply the new information / knowledge in our lives. We learn from our errors and we learn from our attention to details and we learn from complex computations and we learn from others sharing their hindsight as our foresight. But none of it is worth a cracker if we don't apply it.

I love Jim Rohn for this - "It is easy to. It is also easy not to."

Anything we learn is easy to (apply) and easy not to (apply).

The choice always remains with us.

"Pretty'" Alex, is a perception, a label imposed from within your awareness.

What has become 'acceptable' for me in my life experiences that have been my greatest teachers, what I've been able to not make enemy, obstacle or means to an end; never was, is not and likely never will be 'pretty', but yes, it is truth. And there are elements, moments, snapshots within them that are enjoyable, are seriously-funny and adorably heart-breaking - it's these moments that possibly have others question my sanity more than the acceptance of the realities in love and compassion. But they are no less true than the gawd-awful facts of life either.

It is what it is, in this moment by our experience - whatever that experience might be.

A masochist would love your teacher for a whooooollllleeee other set of reasons :wink:
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby alex » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:03 am

I love your writing Jen, it is so honest, heartfelt and unpretentious. Thank you :)
Yes, a masochist would love him. I'm sure not one of those, it took deep surrender and radical honesty to get through that lol.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby Phil2 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:12 am

alex wrote:I love your writing Jen, it is so honest, heartfelt and unpretentious.


Personally I find Jen's posts too verbose and lacking structure and also difficult to understand (probably due to my poor understanding of English language, but not only as I don't have this problem with other posts) ... but this is just my opinion of course ...

... the consequence is that I generally skip her posts because they give me headache

:lol:
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby dijmart » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:53 pm

Phil2 wrote:Personally I find Jen's posts too verbose and lacking structure and also difficult to understand (probably due to my poor understanding of English language, but not only as I don't have this problem with other posts) ... but this is just my opinion of course ...

... the consequence is that I generally skip her posts because they give me headache

:lol:


Your understanding isn't too bad, I had to look up what "verbose" means and I only speak English and I went to College... :lol: (laughing at myself here, of course)
Take what you like and leave the rest.
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Re: Your Way is Yours Alone

Postby helloiamhere » Sat May 27, 2017 10:54 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:Talking about this opened my throat chakra. I've been feeling a blockage there for a while, a horrible constriction, and getting throat and mouth infections. After writing this I was in a sort of calm rage for a couple of hours. An assertive anger. As I felt my throat opening, like a ball of light (which is how it feels right now - F*&king great! About time you stupid neck!). There had been a huge storm raging at the same time as my own rage (good ole Sky - we're good mates these days) and as it cleared there was a beautiful Sky a can barely describe. I was looking at it in Awe and noticed a shape in the cloud with my Third Eye. A white circle of energy. As I looked at it the whole cluster of clouds it was in went blue. Then the blueness moved into the circle and it became this incredible, circle of swirling blue energy. I was wondering what it was and it hit me - blue --> throat, circle --> chakra. Ah, my throat chakra's opened. It seems that assertiveness (to the point of near-anger) against bullsh*t (especially spiritual bullsh*t!!!) is necessary for me to experience this wonderful lightness and openness in my throat.


This has been really helpful for me. I feel like I am going through a similar thing. Thanks for your description
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