Are we 'connected' ?

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Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:08 pm

What does it mean to be 'connected' in relationships ?

What is it that is 'connected' exactly ?

When I have my own knowledge, culture, beliefs, opinions etc. ie. all my 'conditioning', and that I speak to you who have your own 'conceptual structure', what is connected ? Is there anything that can be connected ?

I will defend my opinions and resist to yours ... it will be one 'defense system' fighting or resisting another 'defense system' ... no real connection ... two separate islands living in isolation ...

But when I drop those defenses (ie. when I become 'vulnerable' and take some risks), and when I enter in 'your world' without judgement or criticism or rejection or fear of any kind, then I can feel how it is to be 'in your shoes' ... when there is 'empathy', which literally means 'feeling/suffering from inside' ...

And this is the 'connection' ... and what am I connected to exactly ?

I am connected to my own feelings in fact ... which can only appear when the noise and resistance in the head stops, when we can listen to our 'heart', when we "inhabit our body" to use Eckhart words ...

And this connection to our inner reality can only happen in silence of mind, complete attention and stillness ...
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby presenttense » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:29 pm

Hi Phil,

I know I am not able to give you an answer and actually I have a lot of questions also…
But I would like to write what I feel about “connection”
I think we are all connected, it is more than to be connected with our feelings. And I also think the more we know about it, the more we see events showing us this connection.

I realized this after some events in my journey, and then…I started to pay attention to it, and at each day, I can feel and see other connected events.

What I do not understand is the way these event are happening in my life…but everything is so connected I cannot explain to you. It is impressive, one thing leads to another, and the connection with the events and people are immense.

I can clearly see the progress of things, but again, I do not understand why they are happening like that.
This is the reason why I am asking so many things to you all.
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby rachMiel » Wed Sep 24, 2014 6:52 pm

> Are we connected?

Everything is connected ... in an all-inclusive web. Indra's net. As "we" are (part of) everything, we too are connected.

But, what we call "relationship" and "connection" is not the fact of this universal connection.

It's like any other conceptual construct: "Connection" and "relationship" are not what they (attempt to) point to.

In other words, to feel, to be the all-inclusive connectedness, you need to let go of all words, images, memories, theories of such connectedness.

My take, as always. :-)
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 7:57 am

rachMiel wrote:
In other words, to feel, to be the all-inclusive connectedness, you need to let go of all words, images, memories, theories of such connectedness.



Right, there is no connection at this 'intellectual' level ... each person lives in his own conceptual world separate from each other ... like isolated islands ...

There can be 'connection' only when we share something we have in common ... call this 'communion' if you like the word ...

So what is it that we all 'share' ? That we all have in common ?

??
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:14 am

presenttense wrote:Hi Phil,

I know I am not able to give you an answer and actually I have a lot of questions also…
But I would like to write what I feel about “connection”
I think we are all connected, it is more than to be connected with our feelings. And I also think the more we know about it, the more we see events showing us this connection.

I realized this after some events in my journey, and then…I started to pay attention to it, and at each day, I can feel and see other connected events.

What I do not understand is the way these event are happening in my life…but everything is so connected I cannot explain to you. It is impressive, one thing leads to another, and the connection with the events and people are immense.

I can clearly see the progress of things, but again, I do not understand why they are happening like that.
This is the reason why I am asking so many things to you all.


So you seem to refer here to a phenomenon identified by Carl Jung as "synchronicity":

From Wikipedia wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity

Synchronicity is the experience of two or more events as meaningfully related, where they are unlikely to be causally related. The subject sees it as a meaningful coincidence. The concept of synchronicity was first described by Carl Jung, a Swiss psychologist, in the 1920s.

...

Jung was transfixed by the idea that life was not a series of random events but rather an expression of a deeper order, which he and Pauli referred to as Unus mundus.


So my question would be: What is the exact nature of this "deeper order" ?

:?:
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby presenttense » Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:56 pm

Phil2 wrote:So my question would be: What is the exact nature of this "deeper order" ?

:?:



I do not know Phil... :?

But I would like to add one more question :)
Do you think we create these synchronicities, according to our desires, to what we think about??
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Sep 25, 2014 6:50 pm

Phil2 wrote:
rachMiel wrote:
In other words, to feel, to be the all-inclusive connectedness, you need to let go of all words, images, memories, theories of such connectedness.



Right, there is no connection at this 'intellectual' level ... each person lives in his own conceptual world separate from each other ... like isolated islands ...

There can be 'connection' only when we share something we have in common ... call this 'communion' if you like the word ...

So what is it that we all 'share' ? That we all have in common ?

??


Love. There's really nothing happening at all here, other than love, love, love which gets clouded by concepts upon concepts.

Presence is love. That's all we are at our core. Unconditional love.

Life's purpose as I see it is uncovering that love at our core and living from there. Living Love in human bodies. Isn't that cool?

But, it's not just saying that or thinking it. It's actually living it. Living love from our conscious perspectives. Living through those tightly held beliefs we all have. This is why emotional work is something I've decided to delve into and I think can do a world of wonder for many.

I love what Runstrails posted the other day in her game thread. She talked about the diversity that this board brings of differing viewpoints/opinions (perspectives) is wondrous, yet it's all embraced by the same love that you and I exist upon.

I think you have a good grasp of it Phil, by indication of the opening post in this thread from you.
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby rachMiel » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:51 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:That's all we are at our core. Unconditional love.

E2B, I've heard this a bunch, sometimes to mean quite different things.

Could you share with us what you mean by it?
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:33 pm

rachMiel wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:That's all we are at our core. Unconditional love.

E2B, I've heard this a bunch, sometimes to mean quite different things.

Could you share with us what you mean by it?


Sure. I'll do my best. I can write a novel on this, but I'll spare you with the shortest possible explanation of my interpretation.

If you look at a tree outside. It's plain to see that a tree has no requirements or wanting/needing of anything, other than to merely exist as is. A rock would be a better example because a rock doesn't even require water or sunlight to exist. It merely exists unconditionally. Where else can this existence happen, other than in pure love? Love itself, beyond concept, beyond thought, without conditions or wants or needs is merely the 'what is' of everyday experience. Existence only exists in love because love is the only thing (non thing) actually present to allow anything to merely be exactly as it is. Even the perceived evil in the world can only exist unconditionally (as it is as another form of experience), within the unconditional love that allows to be as it is without judging it. There's no judgement at the core of existence. Everything merely just is as love. The only judgement exists in our own minds. The disagreements we all might have, the clinging to our tiny limited perspectives can only exist as they do within the unconditional love that allows the ego perspective to so beautifully exist and be expressed as it is.

Existence itself is our nature. Presence if you will. I don't use the term consciousness anymore because of its ambiguous connotations. But, I know that you and I both (from reading your posts), have experientially seen our true nature as that which is beyond concept/thought. The Isness of this moment. I am that I am and nothing more. It's only Pure Unconditional accepting love at the core of every experience being expressed as billions and billions and billions....and billions of unique perspectives in form.

When we cling ever so tightly to that limited perspective/beliefs we have developed over time, and as a result, project those beliefs onto our everyday experience, we are ultimately separating reality into pieces based on conceptual thought....which is often projected as fear. Because love is the essence of what we are (Source), each perspective is of the same source at its core. Each perspective also has a unique set of genetics and life experiences...ultimately again, with the same one Source of love at the core.

Therefore, we have the power to expand upon our individual perspectives and loosen up our grip on the limited perspective we previously had to include a far more inclusive perspective on reality which means, we start to embrace in love that which we previously feared. It could mean stepping of my shoes, to understand where you are coming from as well within your own perspective. The more we expand and raise our individual vibrational frequencies, the more in line with love, we become, which is the more in line with our nature. That love which is our nature, is merely the 'what is' of any experience, when not clouded by our limiting perspectives on life.

This is just my own take on unconditional love. You or anyone else has every right to disagree with me....or yell at me 8)
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby rachMiel » Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:33 am

Enlightened2B wrote:That love which is our nature, is merely the 'what is' of any experience, when not clouded by our limiting perspectives on life.

I get what you're pointing to: "what is" without the intrusion of conditioned mind.

Calling this "love" doesn't resonate so much for me, probably because love is such a loaded term.

Actually, calling it anything diminishes it for me. It's sooooooooo easy to mistake the word for the thing, which is not of the realm of words.

But, when communicating with others in a forum like this, words need to be used. I've been calling what you call love: actuality. (Reality is way too loaded a term.)

It's interesting that a bunch of us have (what appears to be) such a similar understanding of stuff. And I don't feel that this understanding is either a rote "belief" in Advaita, Tolle, Buddhism, or anything else. It's more like a hodgepodge that we've group-minded together into a Tolle forum worldview stew. :-)
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Enlightened2B » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:19 am

rachMiel wrote:
Calling this "love" doesn't resonate so much for me, probably because love is such a loaded term.

Actually, calling it anything diminishes it for me. It's sooooooooo easy to mistake the word for the thing, which is not of the realm of words.

But, when communicating with others in a forum like this, words need to be used. I've been calling what you call love: actuality. (Reality is way too loaded a term.)


Love for me resonates the most. Granted, I understand love can have a variety of meanings to different people. It's not just a term as I see it. It's what unconditional love actually is when fear is not running the show.

The fact that you and I can perhaps disagree on whether to use a certain term or not, or disagree on something else, yet I can still feel the love for your perspective knowing full well, that your perspective stems from your living experiences, while mine is just the same and in that, there's nothing else to feel, but love....that is...as long as I am not trying to defend something or utilize this discussion as a means to end....to prove a point...which I've been known to do in the past even on this forum.

What we are as our nature, I call 'Source'. It's just aware energy. I say, call it whatever you'd like. Call it poop if you want :lol: A term is just a term, but I like giving it a name. I think Source fits it right, for at least the time being in my body. But, that's just me.

But, love itself is the nature of Source as I see it. The fact that each perspective exists so perfectly as a piece of Source, without any judgement of that perspective, is an indication to me, that unconditional love is really all there is in this universe. But, again, that's just how I see it.

It's interesting that a bunch of us have (what appears to be) such a similar understanding of stuff. And I don't feel that this understanding is either a rote "belief" in Advaita, Tolle, Buddhism, or anything else. It's more like a hodgepodge that we've group-minded together into a Tolle forum worldview stew. :-)


While I resonate with some posters more than others, I think ultimately, we've all awakened (or most of us) on some level at least to the deeper presence of our existence. I think it's merely the interpretation of that presence which is where our perspectives go haywire in different directions. 8)

But, I love that diversity on this forum. Maybe not so much in the past, but I'm coming to appreciate it a lot more now.
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Onceler » Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:41 am

rachMiel wrote:[

It's interesting that a bunch of us have (what appears to be) such a similar understanding of stuff. And I don't feel that this understanding is either a rote "belief" in Advaita, Tolle, Buddhism, or anything else. It's more like a hodgepodge that we've group-minded together into a Tolle forum worldview stew. :-)


Brilliant, and perhaps scarily true.
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby rachMiel » Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:48 am

Onceler wrote:
rachMiel wrote:[

It's interesting that a bunch of us have (what appears to be) such a similar understanding of stuff. And I don't feel that this understanding is either a rote "belief" in Advaita, Tolle, Buddhism, or anything else. It's more like a hodgepodge that we've group-minded together into a Tolle forum worldview stew. :-)


Brilliant, and perhaps scarily true.

Scary horror movie or scary amazing ... ? ;-)
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:23 am

presenttense wrote:
Phil2 wrote:So my question would be: What is the exact nature of this "deeper order" ?

:?:



I do not know Phil... :?

But I would like to add one more question :)
Do you think we create these synchronicities, according to our desires, to what we think about??


Well probably even more according to our fears than to our desires ... I think that fears are more powerful than desires in this perspective ...

But fundamentally, the ultimate correlation seems to be with our 'beliefs' ... we live in the world of our own beliefs, and those beliefs shape our reality ... this is an undeniable fact ... each person creates his own 'conceptual' world, and this 'virtual' world becomes his reality ... and all the 'fears' and 'desires' arise from this virtual reality ...

But this conceptual world is only a 'map', ie. an abstract 'representation' of reality, but not the real 'territory' ...

Have you heard about the 'Law of Attraction' ?
Last edited by Phil2 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Are we 'connected' ?

Postby Phil2 » Fri Sep 26, 2014 9:39 am

rachMiel wrote:
Calling this "love" doesn't resonate so much for me, probably because love is such a loaded term.



Well I would agree. The word 'love' is so much loaded and has been so much misused and misunderstood ...

Moreover the word 'love' implicitly contains some fragrance of 'duality', because when I love something, implicitly it means that I can also hate it ... so love has an opposite ... also in love, there is some kind of 'doing', love is an 'action' ... and we can 'do' it or not ... it 'depends', it is 'conditional' ...

It is difficult to find a word without opposite, even 'life' has an opposite which is 'death' ...

Personally I prefer to use the word 'awareness' or even 'presence' (Eckhart often refers to 'being'), which are not too much loaded, though I agree that they also have their opposites as 'unawareness' and 'absence' (or 'distraction') ... while I admit that 'being' does not have any obvious opposite ...

So to come back to our initial discussion, what we share is awareness and presence and 'beingness' ... this is common to all ... and we know that when self operates (as compulsive thought, with all its defenses and divisions), there is no presence, no awareness ... hence no connection, no real relationship, nothing 'shared' in fact ...
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