Non-judgemental awareness

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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby dijmart » Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:12 am

rachMiel wrote:Yes, we have history. Many a talk have we had, few (if any) a conclusion have we reached. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


:lol:

EN2B, I agree with what you had to say. We can not know the experience of someone whose mind doesn't operate in the manner that would be considered the "norm" for a human being. The closest one could get would be to have studied a specific abnormality intensively, while interviewing patients and families for years to get a sense of what they experience, however that is still NOT the experience itself. Like Eckhart has said, you could have done a dissertation on honey, but if you haven't tasted honey, then you still don't know honey.
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby dijmart » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:10 am

Phil is your name Jean Gatti...

You're picture is priceless.

http://www.kinfonet.org/forums/2-genera ... opics/3354

This post of yours on the other forum is VERY familiar to this one! I read down a few posts and knew for sure it was you! :lol:
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby Onceler » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:11 am

Phil2 wrote:
Onceler wrote:So what if we have our buttons pushed and we have an emotional reaction? Why is that a problem? It's just an experience in a stream of experiences. If we try to be nonreactive, then we may repress our emotions and reactions.....by trying to be spiritual and non dual. Whereas if we react, throw an insult back and move on, we are in the moment and processing the incident in real time and then forgetting the whole thing.



No, I am not talking about repressing or suppressing emotions, quite the opposite, I say : stay with the emotion, live it fully, observe it, inhabit your body, feel the pain ...

When you react emotionally and throw an insult back, you resist to attend the emotion, you resist to 'what is', you need to get rid of it quickly and 'react' ... and you miss an opportunity to grow emotionally ...

'Re-action' means 'repeated action', a repetitive (and mostly predictible) action coming from the past unresolved pains or traumas from childhood ... that you superimpose on your adult life and circumstances ...
`

Yeah, I know what you're saying Phil, and it's the standard spiritual line, but something feels like its missing.....like life, like juice, like soul. Emotions are meant to be felt, to be reacted to. That's the point. I'm not explaining myself very well, but it seems that emotions should be deeply acknowledged in the moment, deeply felt, and then moved out of the body into a non-localized space. It shouldn't take long, and we shouldn't dwell on emotions and allow cognitive structures to be built around them to keep them in a pseudo-zombie half life. Just acknowledge, feel, release. I'm using this technique, similar to what Karmarider describes, to uncover the emotional energy under chronic cognitive constructs, pain, etc. It's very simple and it works at clearing emotional energy and the attending phenomena around emotions. What I'm finding is that when you strip back a 'problem', be it pain, emotional/physical etc., to its raw emotional state, it pretty much all feels the same. It's a basic low-grade fear that runs through life like a background hum. Nancy Dennison in 'Backwards' keeps coming back to the theme of fear.....as in, it is the human condition from which our pathology springs. Rings true for me.
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby Onceler » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:15 am

dijmart wrote:Phil is your name Jean Gatti...

You're picture is priceless.

http://www.kinfonet.org/forums/2-genera ... opics/3354

This post of yours on the other forum is VERY familiar to this one! I read down a few posts and knew for sure it was you! :lol:


Whoa, Dijmart, your like a detective savant.
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby dijmart » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:34 am

Phil2 wrote: so before 'doing' anything we must first understand how it works, how an emotional reaction arises.

Let us see what happens in an example: I am walking in the street and for some reasons, a man starts to shout at me and insult me.

What happens ?

Immediately there arises in me an emotional reaction, right ? I feel hurt and maybe I will react emotionally to this 'challenge' or threat perception by shouting and insulting back.

But why ?

After all, why would I care about this unknown man shouting at me and insulting me ? Does the opinion of this man have any importance to me, why let him 'trigger' my emotional reaction, upsetting me, 'pushing my buttons' ?

So what happened exactly ?

What happened is this: I meet a situation where my self image is challenged and my memory immediately goes back to the past and superimposes a situation from my childhood when my parents disapproved me ... and of course, being a child it is of the utmost importance not to be rejected by my parents, because for a child, being rejected would mean abandonment and probably death ... so this memory from the past, which has not been fully resolved in my adult life, is still operating, still alive ... and when I meet a conflictual situation, I immediately superimpose the emotional situation of the past unto the present situation ...

Is it reasonable to do so ?

Of course not, because the opinion of this man insulting me has no importance for me as an adult ... so there is no need to react to it. I can perfectly stay with the challenge, and instead of reacting out of an emotional defense, bring an adequate response (which is not a 'reaction') like : why do you feel the need to insult me ?

So we see that we are in fact totally responsible of our own quality of experience, we are deciding (mainly unconsciously) of our own emotions.

So why let others 'push our buttons' any more ?

??


Also, I found this "EXACT" post on the other forum site!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Toooooooo funny! I needed a good laugh tonight, thanks Phil, jean or whatever the hell your name is!

RM said- (We're escapees from a Krishnamurti loony bin!)


RM, looks like you're the only one that escaped!
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby dijmart » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:47 am

Onceler wrote:
dijmart wrote:Phil is your name Jean Gatti...

You're picture is priceless.

http://www.kinfonet.org/forums/2-genera ... opics/3354

This post of yours on the other forum is VERY familiar to this one! I read down a few posts and knew for sure it was you! :lol:


Whoa, Dijmart, your like a detective savant.


It's a talent of mine. 8)
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:56 am

Onceler wrote:Yeah, I know what you're saying Phil, and it's the standard spiritual line, but something feels like its missing.....like life, like juice, like soul. Emotions are meant to be felt, to be reacted to. That's the point. I'm not explaining myself very well, but it seems that emotions should be deeply acknowledged in the moment, deeply felt, and then moved out of the body into a non-localized space. It shouldn't take long, and we shouldn't dwell on emotions and allow cognitive structures to be built around them to keep them in a pseudo-zombie half life. Just acknowledge, feel, release. I'm using this technique, similar to what Karmarider describes, to uncover the emotional energy under chronic cognitive constructs, pain, etc. It's very simple and it works at clearing emotional energy and the attending phenomena around emotions. What I'm finding is that when you strip back a 'problem', be it pain, emotional/physical etc., to its raw emotional state, it pretty much all feels the same. It's a basic low-grade fear that runs through life like a background hum. Nancy Dennison in 'Backwards' keeps coming back to the theme of fear.....as in, it is the human condition from which our pathology springs. Rings true for me.


Onceler, I agree with both of your posts in this thread. It's easy to get caught up 'robotic states' in spirituality and kind of forget the human half of the experience. It's all inclusive as I see it. You're doing the Sedona Method, it sounds like. I read something similar off of Karma's blog sometime last year. Thought it was cool, but like EFT and other techniques, I personally did not have a lot of success with it. Could be just me. I found it difficult to release emotions because even when I thought I was releasing them, they still came back. Maybe I'm confused on the premise of the technique and the definition of 'release'. Can you explain this more from your own experience/perspective on this? I've been working instead on dealing with emotions lately through meditation and now energy work. (Healing Codes which Nanci Danison also recommends).
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby karmarider » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:05 am

Enlightened2B wrote: I found it difficult to release emotions because even when I thought I was releasing them, they still came back. Maybe I'm confused on the premise of the technique and the definition of 'release'.


Emotions have not gone away. I wouldn't want them to. An emotion rises and there is the noticing of it. There is an allowing. There is the making of space for the emotion in the body. There is the intention to fully feel the emotion and the full feeling of it follows, without resistance. There is an appreciation of for the ability to experience it. There is feeling of the emotion and there is the decision to let go and it goes.

If there is reaction to the emotion, there is no resistance to that.

Sorry for the awkward language--I'm trying to convey that this now happens quickly and competently.

Check out David Friedman (http://www.thethoughtexchange.com/) who says the same thing but you might find him clearer.
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby Phil2 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:14 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Until you can actually put yourself in the shoes of a mentally retarded person (which you will in your life review) as an act of love, or an autistic person or a person with a congenital brain disorder, you will never know what they experience and what they can and cannot control, so who am I to suggest that I actually do know?


Being 'responsible' does not mean you can 'control' what happens ... it just mean that the 'response' you give to a specific situation arises from you and no other ... that no other person is 'responsible' for your 'response' ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby Phil2 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:18 am

dijmart wrote:Also, I found this "EXACT" post on the other forum site!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Toooooooo funny! I needed a good laugh tonight, thanks Phil, jean or whatever the hell your name is!


I wonder what all this gossip is about Di ... are you in a mania phase of your mental disorder ?
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby Phil2 » Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:32 am

karmarider wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote: I found it difficult to release emotions because even when I thought I was releasing them, they still came back. Maybe I'm confused on the premise of the technique and the definition of 'release'.


Emotions have not gone away. I wouldn't want them to. An emotion rises and there is the noticing of it. There is an allowing. There is the making of space for the emotion in the body. There is the intention to fully feel the emotion and the full feeling of it follows, without resistance. There is an appreciation of for the ability to experience it. There is feeling of the emotion and there is the decision to let go and it goes.

If there is reaction to the emotion, there is no resistance to that.


Yes KR, this is what is meant by 'fully embracing your feelings' ... it does NOT mean repression or suppression, but rather staying with the emotion, living and feeling it fully, without any judgement or resistance, until it dissolves ... then the emotion is nothing else than an energy motion which happens in the body ... and it passes away easily when it is not resisted or fed by thought, fears and desires ...

This is also what Eckhart means by 'inhabiting your body' ...

Unfortunately most people do not want to face their negative emotions, they look for escapes in distractions, entertainment, addictions, violence, rituals etc ... so those negative emotions come back again and again, endlessly replaying the same dramas and scenarios ... and this is called human suffering ...
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby Onceler » Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:37 pm

karmarider wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote: I found it difficult to release emotions because even when I thought I was releasing them, they still came back. Maybe I'm confused on the premise of the technique and the definition of 'release'.
Yup, Karmarider said it well.....that's what I was lamely trying to say. Don't know that I'm using any method, just a

Emotions have not gone away. I wouldn't want them to. An emotion rises and there is the noticing of it. There is an allowing. There is the making of space for the emotion in the body. There is the intention to fully feel the emotion and the full feeling of it follows, without resistance. There is an appreciation of for the ability to experience it. There is feeling of the emotion and there is the decision to let go and it goes.

If there is reaction to the emotion, there is no resistance to that.

Sorry for the awkward language--I'm trying to convey that this now happens quickly and competently.

Check out David Friedman (http://www.thethoughtexchange.com/) who says the same thing but you might find him clearer.


Yup, Karmarider said it well.....that's what I was lamely trying to say. Don't know that I'm using any method, the difficult part for me is to remember to go for the feeling, to get under the layers of cognition that build rapidly or have stratified over a longer period of time. Just feel it.

In my younger, callow years I worked a book sale for a conference by a psychologist, Eugene Gendlin. He developed a simple technique called 'focusing'. Very similar to release techniques, maybe a little more involved.

https://www.focusing.org/newcomers.htm

Had a signed copy of his book which I regretably lost.....
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby dijmart » Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:04 pm

Phil2 wrote:I wonder what all this gossip is about Di ... are you in a mania phase of your mental disorder ?


No, I've just thought you're a douchebag and I was right. :lol:
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:24 pm

Thanks Karma and Onceler. Sounds like you guys are simply talking about meditation from the way you're both describing it, especially Karma's description. That's exactly what I do during meditation. Allowing all that is, to be exactly as it is. Feeling every sensation and emotion to the fullest extent within the body. Putting the attention on the physical body and where the sensation is being felt. In all fairness to Phil, sounds like he was pretty much saying the same thing. I very much agree that the difficult part is to feel the sensation and not get caught up with the thought processes that often surround sensations. But, simply noticing where your mind is can go a long way.

When I heard you talking about 'release', I thought of the Sedona Method where you ask a few questions about 'letting go' (similar to Byron Katie). I've found that it definitely works 'in the moment'....meaning temporarily. However, seeing your nature in the long run (presence) works better for me at integrating emotions. What I mean by integrating.....energy. Everything is energy. Emotions are energy as are thoughts. Strong emotions and conditioned thought processes stem from trauma either in past lives, womb trauma, or traumas built up in childhood (Michael Brown calls it a 7 year period)....trauma to the emotional body. It's not about getting rid of those emotions at all, nor about suppressing. It's about integrating them into the vibrational body as the vibrational body comes prior to the emotional and physical body. I'm reading 'The Healing Codes' now and I'm getting a very different picture than I previously had of emotional and physical healing from the perspective of energy. I figured if everything is energy at the core, and we are vibrational beings, then addressing that, would make more sense.
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Re: Non-judgemental awareness

Postby Onceler » Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:49 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:Thanks Karma and Onceler. Sounds like you guys are simply talking about meditation from the way you're both describing it, especially Karma's description. That's exactly what I do during meditation. Allowing all that is, to be exactly as it is. Feeling every sensation and emotion to the fullest extent within the body. Putting the attention on the physical body and where the sensation is being felt. In all fairness to Phil, sounds like he was pretty much saying the same thing. I very much agree that the difficult part is to feel the sensation and not get caught up with the thought processes that often surround sensations. But, simply noticing where your mind is can go a long way.

When I heard you talking about 'release', I thought of the Sedona Method where you ask a few questions about 'letting go' (similar to Byron Katie). I've found that it definitely works 'in the moment'....meaning temporarily. However, seeing your nature in the long run (presence) works better for me at integrating emotions. What I mean by integrating.....energy. Everything is energy. Emotions are energy as are thoughts. Strong emotions and conditioned thought processes stem from trauma either in past lives, womb trauma, or traumas built up in childhood (Michael Brown calls it a 7 year period)....trauma to the emotional body. It's not about getting rid of those emotions at all, nor about suppressing. It's about integrating them into the vibrational body as the vibrational body comes prior to the emotional and physical body. I'm reading 'The Healing Codes' now and I'm getting a very different picture than I previously had of emotional and physical healing from the perspective of energy. I figured if everything is energy at the core, and we are vibrational beings, then addressing that, would make more sense.


Nice. The release part just happens. When I get down to the emotional foundation, the emotion dissolves after a mini vibrational buzz....it just dissipates. The hard part is remembering to feel the emotion deeply in the first place and not get swept up in the thinking. I don't do this as a formal meditation, just a quiet minute or two of focused concentration.

Tell me more about the 7 year period, never heard of it.
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