'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby Clouded » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:05 pm

Phil, is it that hard for you to stop analyzing Di? Yeah she was disrespectful and called you names, but just let it go and move on. She's ignoring you and yet you keep replying to her messages when those messages weren't intended for you. Nobody wants your snarky remarks (especially Di!) and it looks like many people who regularly post on the forum has had "issues" with you and I can see why. Remember to be "impeccable with your word" because clearly you aren't since there's always "misunderstandings" with you.
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby Phil2 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:10 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:It is what it is. I don't want this thread to be locked down, so I'm gonna shut up about it because I think the thread itself is a good thread.


I welcome your decision.

As J. Krishnamurti wisely said:

"Now the negation of disorder is silence. Any movement of thought will only breed further disorder. "
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby Phil2 » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:20 pm

Clouded wrote:Phil, is it that hard for you to stop analyzing Di? Yeah she was disrespectful and called you names, but just let it go and move on. She's ignoring you and yet you keep replying to her messages when those messages weren't intended for you. Nobody wants your snarky remarks (especially Di!) and it looks like many people who regularly post on the forum has had "issues" with you and I can see why. Remember to be "impeccable with your word" because clearly you aren't since there's always "misunderstandings" with you.


Dearest Clouded,

Remember that I am not responsible for others emotional reactions ... each one is fully responsible for his own emotions ...

Once again what irritates us is an opportunity to learn on ourselves, no ?

Are we here to tell each other what we want to hear ... and feed our egos with self satisfaction ... or are we ready to accept some discomfort of being somewhat 'challenged' by others ? and from there investigate inside what exactly has been 'threatened' ?

??

Pleasant words are not true and true words are not pleasant ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby Clouded » Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:37 pm

Phil2 wrote:
Clouded wrote:Phil, is it that hard for you to stop analyzing Di? Yeah she was disrespectful and called you names, but just let it go and move on. She's ignoring you and yet you keep replying to her messages when those messages weren't intended for you. Nobody wants your snarky remarks (especially Di!) and it looks like many people who regularly post on the forum has had "issues" with you and I can see why. Remember to be "impeccable with your word" because clearly you aren't since there's always "misunderstandings" with you.


Dearest Clouded,

Remember that I am not responsible for others emotional reactions ... each one is fully responsible for his own emotions ...

Once again what irritates us is an opportunity to learn on ourselves, no ?

Are we here to tell each other what we want to hear ... and feed our egos with self satisfaction ... or are we ready to accept some discomfort of being somewhat 'challenged' by others ? and from there investigate inside what exactly has been 'threatened' ?

??

Pleasant words are not true and true words are not pleasant ...

All I know is that when there's drama, you're usually involved in it. I have been lurking on this forum before you registered and I have never witnessed so much drama here. And I have to admit, some of your posts are irritating to me and adding a smiley face at the very end doesn't help. Maybe other people feel the same way. You just come across as self-righteous instead of being open to other perspectives. And you should never joke about mental illnesses like what you did to Di, questioning if her negative reaction to your posts where a result of her bipolar disorder. That was not cool to me. These are my "true" words, sorry if it's not what you want to hear, I'm just stating facts, haha!! :D
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby far_eastofwest » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:23 am

That is a great line, used so often by all and sundry self help/teachers etc etc.... sounds fantastic:

"Remember that I am not responsible for others emotional reactions ... each one is fully responsible for his own emotions ..."

Fact that is is actually illogical and doesn't work in 'real life' doesn't make it sound any less like a great quote.

In fact, I like it so much I'm going to write a blog post on this very quote, will post a link when i'm done.

And Phil, you sound like someone gave you a very hard time in your life, maybe you are lonely or sad or both? Just my interpretation. Negative attention is a valuable if gaining positive attention seems beyond a persons reach.
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby Clouded » Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:55 am

Yeah Phil, you rarely if never talk about your past experiences/your life. You do seem to attract drama more than anyone else on this forum and you're not even trolling (I hope?). You also seem to take these teachings to heart, you have all of these quotes memorized and are a VERY frequent poster, it's like you live and breath this. What made you seek spirituality? Do you have any other hobbies besides this? Btw, I'm sorry if my previous posts seemed harsh and unfriendly to you, I do want to get a reaction out of you. Sometimes when I read your replies to me, it's like you are attacking my views and sometimes I choose not to reply to you like that one time when I offered my advice to that single parent who was desperate to be in a relationship and you questioned my advice and suggested the total opposite to it rather than just let it be. I don't know why you needed to do that. I was just trying to be helpful and share my perspective and you are not to judge whether my perspective is good enough or not for you because it wasn't you who I was trying to help. I don't get why you have to butt in and contradict others when people are trying to be helpful and share their insights. You don't know what's best or what's true, nobody knows!! I don't know if people want to be challenged by you, if that is your purpose for posting on this forum. Sure doesn't look like it at times with the amount of negative reactions you got. :?
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby dijmart » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:39 am

Where is the love (The love)...
Where is the love (The love)....
Where is the love, the love, the love.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpYeekQkAdc

:D
Last edited by dijmart on Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby Onceler » Tue Nov 04, 2014 2:46 am

dijmart wrote:So, I have something else to add, as I see it, when in pain and suffering some need to hang out in transcendent land for awhile, removing themselves somewhat from the nitty gritty of life by dismissing it's reality, before taking the second part of the spiritual journey which would be the return movement back to there humanness and embracing form and formless as one in the same. It doesn't always happen this way, however I think it's fairly common, imo.


Actually, Di, I thought this post was just as insightful. Covering some new territory here, made me think. Thanks.
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby dijmart » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:15 am

Take what you like and leave the rest.
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby Clouded » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:42 am

dijmart wrote:
Where is the love (The love)...
Where is the love (The love)....
Where is the love, the love, the love.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpYeekQkAdc

:D

You should have asked yourself that before you decided to call Phil names. But I'll try to follow my own advice and let go and move on even if this wasn't my fight to begin with, I just like to end them.
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby dijmart » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:16 am

Onceler wrote:
dijmart wrote:So, I have something else to add, as I see it, when in pain and suffering some need to hang out in transcendent land for awhile, removing themselves somewhat from the nitty gritty of life by dismissing it's reality, before taking the second part of the spiritual journey which would be the return movement back to there humanness and embracing form and formless as one in the same. It doesn't always happen this way, however I think it's fairly common, imo.


Actually, Di, I thought this post was just as insightful. Covering some new territory here, made me think. Thanks.


Thanks Onceler, and too the above I want to add, it's during the return movement when things get really hairy...in the negation phase and hanging in transcendent land, well if something bothers you, you just deny it's existence and problem solved. :lol: Or if you bother someone else, well, oh-well they don't exist anyways. But, in the return movement phase, you're not denying the reality any longer of your or "others" emotions, feelings, world, ect., ect. You know it's reality, in the sense that I will not always have this body/mind, but for now, this body/mind certainly does exist..in the now experience that I'm having.

I can deny it for the rest of my life, if I choose, but, there's something you're missing if you do that and awakening stalls. I think sometimes people try to hold on to the transcendent land experience (or non experience), but they are progressing on the spiritual journey and insights happen. These insights can be ignored if solid beliefs have been made that distort what is trying to come through. This can lead to confusion and sadness...like- "wait, damn it, I was sorta happy there, no I don't want to know form and formless are one, I can't handle that, I don't understand that, I don't know what to do with that! What, I have no choice...arrggg!!!"

Integrating insight can be a long painful process, as it seems, unless your awakening is complete from the start (which I don't think it ever is), then each thing that arises needs to be looked at and integrated at some point and if it's ignored will tend to re-emerge for another look or another. I'm in this longggg process and questions arises, ugliness arises, all that entails being a human-being.. arises. I may get caught up in it, but once it settles down. I tend to come to my senses and see the insanity that was present. Action certainly is part of returning to sanity, as sometimes a change in action is needed for peace. I'm a work in progress, aren't we all.
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby runstrails » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:19 am

Kafi wrote:

Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby kafi » Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:06 am
Phil,
I agree - doing vs being.

For me, doing is about old fashioned project management. Goal setting, milestones, planning.
Striving hard to make things work.

Whereas the being mode is more about wishing and then allowing things to unfold.
For me, the being mode is about inner peace – regardless of outer circumstances.
No striving and struggling.
BUT there can be a desire . An arising of a wish.

I want to share some examples about the magic of the being mode which I enjoy every day.

Getting help at work
At work, I had to solve an error ticket a couple of months ago. This particular task required me to talk to two colleagues.
In the doing mode, I would have had to find a meeting spot in their calendar and then arrange a meeting with each of them. However, in the being mode, I was just peaceful inside and thinking with curiosity, “ I wonder how this issue will be resolved.”

It turned out that at the same morning when I got the error ticket, both colleagues came into my office because they wanted to talk to someone else who sits in my office. So I had the chance to contact each of them the very same morning . No cumbersome scheduling of meetings required.

Meeting a person
I wanted to meet a colleague from another department in order to talk to him. But instead of sending him an email, I just rested with the desire to meet him. Then one day, our team went to lunch. Everyone got through the turnstile, except for me. The turnstile just refused to let me in. Bummer! I had to wait 2 minutes outside before I could try again. Shit, I would miss lunch with my team.
Howeverm , when I was at the salad bar, I met the colleague from the other department whom I had wanted to meet since quite some time. I saw him and knew, “THAT is why the turnstile refused to let me in, so I could meet him.” We had lunch together and had an interesting talk.
I have experienced this many times. Whenever I send out the wish that I want to talk to someone, I can be sure that the universe will fold itself in such ways that I will be able to meet this person.

Making the weather
I’ve found that it is possible for me to influence the weather. (No kidding. And no, I am not going crazy. There are quite a few accounts in the literature where people have described their weather making skills. For example Carrie Triffet and Chris Griscom). This comes in handy frequently, especially during vacation.

Once, I was on vacation with the kids. I had wished for warm weather. We were at the playground , the sky was blue all over and it was warm. My son came to me , complaining, “Mommy, look what you have done! You have wished for sun, but the metal of the jungle gym is too hot . I can’t touch it anymore. You need to wish for clouds now.”

Oh shit. Is this gonna work?
Aloud I said, “Ok, honey. We’ll try. But you need to help me. “
We sat down and wished for clouds . Within two minutes an single tiny cloud appeared in front of the sun. My son was delighted. “It works, it works!”. But I thought, “Yeah, nice try. This cloud will probably disappear very soon.” But,no. There was a stream of tiny clouds just in front of the sun. And it lasted 3-4 hours. The playground jungle gyms cooled off and the children were happy.

For dealing with the weather, the traditional approach would have been to carry with me clothing for all kinds of bad weather. Way too heavy. I went by train and had to carry the backpack all by myself.

I have come to the conclusion that the key ingredients for this new navigation mode are
a) a Copernican change in wordview ( i.e. consciousness is prior to everything and does exist even without a brain )
b) Inner peace which is independent of the outer circumstances. The peace which surpasses all understanding.
If these key ingredients are there, then all I need to do is : let the wish arise and then wait with curiosity , “ I wonder how God is going to fulfill this wish.”

The universe appears to me like a single organism , like guided by a single invisible hand.

I'd really love to hear other people's examples of “life in the being mode”, if anyone is willing to share.


What a lovely post, Kafi! I've enjoyed this and so many of your other contributions on the forum :D. Keep 'em coming.

I've also become more aware of the synchronicity and surreptitiousness of life flowing as being. I don't know if they are more in number (compared with before awakening) but I am certainly more aware of them. As you say, it's all about allowing and freely flowing life. A great way to live.
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby dijmart » Tue Nov 04, 2014 4:23 am

Clouded wrote:
dijmart wrote:
Where is the love (The love)...
Where is the love (The love)....
Where is the love, the love, the love.....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpYeekQkAdc

:D

You should have asked yourself that before you decided to call Phil names. But I'll try to follow my own advice and let go and move on even if this wasn't my fight to begin with, I just like to end them.


I didn't post this for one person. I felt compelled to post it, "now", not then, so I did. If you can't appreciate that, that's fine. All you're doing Clouded is stirring the pot.
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby Phil2 » Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:58 am

Clouded wrote:Yeah Phil, you rarely if never talk about your past experiences/your life. You do seem to attract drama more than anyone else on this forum and you're not even trolling (I hope?). You also seem to take these teachings to heart, you have all of these quotes memorized and are a VERY frequent poster, it's like you live and breath this. What made you seek spirituality? Do you have any other hobbies besides this? Btw, I'm sorry if my previous posts seemed harsh and unfriendly to you, I do want to get a reaction out of you. Sometimes when I read your replies to me, it's like you are attacking my views and sometimes I choose not to reply to you like that one time when I offered my advice to that single parent who was desperate to be in a relationship and you questioned my advice and suggested the total opposite to it rather than just let it be. I don't know why you needed to do that. I was just trying to be helpful and share my perspective and you are not to judge whether my perspective is good enough or not for you because it wasn't you who I was trying to help. I don't get why you have to butt in and contradict others when people are trying to be helpful and share their insights. You don't know what's best or what's true, nobody knows!! I don't know if people want to be challenged by you, if that is your purpose for posting on this forum. Sure doesn't look like it at times with the amount of negative reactions you got. :?


Hi Clouded,

You see Clouded, we all come here to 'communicate', to share our understandings, our beliefs, opinions etc ... but all this remains very 'intellectual', we remain in our 'comfort zone', we still project a self image which is not authentic, a 'mask', a 'façade' ... only when we are contradicted and challenged, then our defenses are triggered, we react emotionally and we become 'real' ...

This is why anything that irritates us is an opportunity to learn on ourselves ... but of course ego won't like that ... ego does not like to be 'upset' and 'unmasked' ... to be immersed in its own self-created drama ...

There is a price to pay for freedom. This price is the abandonment of all the pretence of ego (which is in the 'doing') ... in order to reach the presence of being ... this thread is a nice living illustration of 'doing' vs 'being' finally ...

:)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: 'Doing' vs 'Being' ?

Postby Onceler » Tue Nov 04, 2014 12:37 pm

dijmart wrote:
Onceler wrote:
dijmart wrote:So, I have something else to add, as I see it, when in pain and suffering some need to hang out in transcendent land for awhile, removing themselves somewhat from the nitty gritty of life by dismissing it's reality, before taking the second part of the spiritual journey which would be the return movement back to there humanness and embracing form and formless as one in the same. It doesn't always happen this way, however I think it's fairly common, imo.


Actually, Di, I thought this post was just as insightful. Covering some new territory here, made me think. Thanks.


Thanks Onceler, and too the above I want to add, it's during the return movement when things get really hairy...in the negation phase and hanging in transcendent land, well if something bothers you, you just deny it's existence and problem solved. :lol: Or if you bother someone else, well, oh-well they don't exist anyways. But, in the return movement phase, you're not denying the reality any longer of your or "others" emotions, feelings, world, ect., ect. You know it's reality, in the sense that I will not always have this body/mind, but for now, this body/mind certainly does exist..in the now experience that I'm having.

I can deny it for the rest of my life, if I choose, but, there's something you're missing if you do that and awakening stalls. I think sometimes people try to hold on to the transcendent land experience (or non experience), but they are progressing on the spiritual journey and insights happen. These insights can be ignored if solid beliefs have been made that distort what is trying to come through. This can lead to confusion and sadness...like- "wait, damn it, I was sorta happy there, no I don't want to know form and formless are one, I can't handle that, I don't understand that, I don't know what to do with that! What, I have no choice...arrggg!!!"

Integrating insight can be a long painful process, as it seems, unless your awakening is complete from the start (which I don't think it ever is), then each thing that arises needs to be looked at and integrated at some point and if it's ignored will tend to re-emerge for another look or another. I'm in this longggg process and questions arises, ugliness arises, all that entails being a human-being.. arises. I may get caught up in it, but once it settles down. I tend to come to my senses and see the insanity that was present. Action certainly is part of returning to sanity, as sometimes a change in action is needed for peace. I'm a work in progress, aren't we all.


Spot on. I really hear what you're saying. Integration is a good word for it. I was never in the space that was happy and comfortable, so it was never a temptation for mr to stay away from life. But as I integrate, I am finding habits that shielded me from life's intensity and reality (truth?). As I drop 'bad' habits, life gets more intense and real.....unavoidable. I'm talking about pretty minor stuff; a little too much caffeine, food, alcohol, Internet and suddenly you've cocooned youself into a space and it ain't necessarily a chrysalis. So your post speaks to me in this sense as I try to divest these habits.....actually there isn't much trying, I just see the behavior for what it is and it comes to an end over time, or greatly reduces, allowing the intensity in, bit by bit.
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