Astral Projection, etc.

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Sighclone » Tue Nov 04, 2014 6:06 pm

A personal note -- In another thread here: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12896 , I mentioned some personal attempts to contact my "Guides." Well, I didn't have a lot of luck there, apart from the more traditional 'nudges' from the Universe which have been arriving for the last few years, in the form of synchronicity (coincidence) and intuition. No obvious sit-down chats or clear and isolated messages from identifiable astral entities. I sometimes awake with a refined bit of intuition. And sometimes I just feel like a cup of coffee.

And it currently appears that I've got this rather mundane little life to live, so I'm hanging in there, as "Andy-the regular-earth-plane guy, breadwinner and bike-rider," for now. Astral projection doesn't appear on my radar screen right now. Should that change, I'll let you know :) . ... Loving What Is!

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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Ralph » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:11 pm

No need to contact your astral entities, just realize that in truth there is' no you'. This is what the great sages such as Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ramana Maharshi have been saying all along.

... and when you come to this realization, you can then really enjoy your cup of coffee while your living your mundane little life. :)
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:59 am

Ralph wrote:just realize that in truth there is' no you'.

Who says??? :wink:

WW
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Phil2 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:31 am

Sighclone wrote:
And it currently appears that I've got this rather mundane little life to live, so I'm hanging in there, as "Andy-the regular-earth-plane guy, breadwinner and bike-rider," for now. Astral projection doesn't appear on my radar screen right now. Should that change, I'll let you know :) . ... Loving What Is!


Hi Andy,

I think that looking for special experiences (OBE, Higher Guides etc) is a 'trap' ... yet another 'projection' out of thought ... a need to be 'special' ...

... however it is possible to make our normal regular little world a great experience ...

We are not responsible for our life conditions ... but we are 100 % responsible for the quality of our experience ... and this happens here and now ...

Someone said "There is another world but it is WITHIN this one"

:)
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Sighclone » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:24 pm

Thanks, guys. By the way, here is an interesting article clarifying what Ramana Maharshi said about the world and ego arising together:

http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.co.uk/ ... m-and.html

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby kafi » Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:53 pm

Andy,

I think this phase is a stage of the spiritual journey, and some appear to skip it.
For those who go through this phase, it can be a fun part of the journey.

I the book "Answers from Silence" by Jeffrey Chappell, he talks with his guides and gets some beautiful messages. But at the end, the inner voice tells him, that he will be thrown into the "river of silence", and that this is his enlightenment.

Then , he enters inner silence. No more question and answer sessions with his guides.

Something similar is described in a (German ) book by Nabala.
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:19 pm

Andy, I think it's awesome that you are exploring this route. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. It's just pure fear I find, when people claim this as a 'trap'. They can't understand it themselves, and therefore, whatever is outside of the realm of understanding becomes dark and scary for some as we've seen on this board.

Ultimately, as you know very well, you don't need special experiences to be what you already are and to awaken to Presence. That's where Eckhart's teachings come in. But, awakening to what you already are as Presence is only part of the picture as I see it. We come here into physicality with spirit guides. Therefore, if we are being closed off to our guides that are available to us at all times, then we are not opening up and utilizing our whole experience and still limiting ourselves ultimately. We are more than just Awareness incarnated into human bodies. We are powerful beings. Whether you get in touch with your guides, or not, I say why the heck not? Experience isn't about limiting part of it, but exploring all of it. Kudos to you for trying!

Keep us posted. I'd love to hear more.
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Nov 05, 2014 8:22 pm

Sighclone wrote:Thanks, guys. By the way, here is an interesting article clarifying what Ramana Maharshi said about the world and ego arising together:

http://happinessofbeing.blogspot.co.uk/ ... m-and.html

Andy


I read part of the blog piece. Had a difficult time understanding it, but I think I understand their viewpoint (I could be wrong) and I don't agree with it at all. It comes back to the same notion in non-duality and Vedantic teachings where the human body/mind is seen as the only vehicle for Consciousness and therefore all viewpoints are taken from the direct experience of the limited body/mind as opposed to the wider perspective that all form is alive already with the same energy as these bodies and that everything is co-experiencing together with human bodies being merely one avenue of experience for this Source energy. If the world is only thoughts as the article claims, then how could the world possibly have existed prior to humans inhabiting it? I think they get part of it right by claiming the world is just perception. But, failing to take into account anything other than human perception. It's just another limited understanding, just like materialism. Both spiritual idealism and materialism are extremes and ultimately unnecessary and missing the point as I find it. The study of NDE's has so incredibly changed my outlook on this subject matter.

Here's the cool Natalie Sudman quote which I love:

Although we arbitrarily assign consciousness to only a few things in our current definition of what is real in this physical universe, it becomes clear in the expanded consciousness perspective that all form has consciousness. And all of consciousness cooperates to co-create and maintain what we think of as our physical world reality.”
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Sighclone » Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:39 am

Thanks E2B and kafi. Have you both had direct "contact" with your guides? If so, how did it go?

While I believe in astral plane life forms, Light Beings, etc., both intuitively and cognitively, I have little obvious clear direct experience there, and so respect my own ignorance. But synchronous events keep filling my days, messages from the greater universe in themselves. Today, for example I needed to inspect a farm to appraise it. The usual farm hand who drove me around last time suddenly had a medical problem and sent his friend. Later in discussion with the alternate driver, it turned out that, as an EMT, he was the first person to arrive at the nearby accident scene where my stepson was killed about three months ago, and I got excellent information from him. Daily, sometimes hourly synchronicities... it is All Good!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Phil2 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:02 am

Ralph wrote:No need to contact your astral entities, just realize that in truth there is' no you'. This is what the great sages such as Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ramana Maharshi have been saying all along.



Right, totally agreeing on this ... moreover there is a danger in believing in those astral entities or so-called 'higher guides', many psychopaths report that they murdered other persons because they obeyed to 'a voice inside' who asked them to perpetrate their crimes ...

I think we must be careful with the product of our own imagination ... it's just thought after all ... and this is not what we are ...
"What irritates us about others is an opportunity to learn on ourselves"
(Carl Jung)
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Sighclone » Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:57 pm

If the world is only thoughts as the article claims, then how could the world possibly have existed prior to humans inhabiting it? I think they get part of it right by claiming the world is just perception. But, failing to take into account anything other than human perception.


The idea that consciousness is primary, and matter is secondary has been presented by many. In the example of Schroedinger's cat, the cat is either dead or alive (both and neither) until somebody looks in the box. The "collapse of the wave form" happens only when we watch or record and then look at the record of an electron or photon stream exiting the double-slit. The extreme form is "What cannot be observed does not exist." More moderate interpretations are more popular today (see the big Wikipedia article, which has freshly morphed, itself, by the way.) My point here is that there is experimental support that some kind of consciousness/observer (maybe even another atom??) is needed to validate the existence of anything. Ramana suggests that the universe and its human observer arise together, as a dream, and that the original state is unmanifest Stillness. I'm just suggesting a correlation, not causality, and certainly not dogma.

Here's Colin Drake reflecting on Sri Ramakrishna on this:

This article attempts to show how worship, even of images, which is so prevalent in Hinduism, leads to the same realization as correctly identifying oneself with the True Self – Pure Awareness, Consciousness at rest in which all (motion) arises, abides and subsides. The approach I have taken uses the word ‘image’ in its broadest sense to show why Hindus regard the whole of creation to be sacred, a divine manifestation; which ties in with the fact that all manifestation is composed of Cosmic Energy – Consciousness (the divine) in motion. This helps to explain the way they image/worship the divine in not only gods/goddesses but also in nature such as rivers, mountains, trees etc.

For this I shall use the great mystic, of the late 19th century, Sri Ramakrishna as my source. Here was a semi-literate man who approached the divine in many different ways through the worship of Kali the divine mother, Siva which denotes the Absolute (Brahman - Consciousness), Krishna and Rama (who are regarded as incarnations of Vishnu, the preserving aspect of Brahman), Tantra which uses the totality of human experience to approach the divine, and Advaita Vedanta which aims for divine union by negating all manifestation as Maya (illusion). In his own experience he found that all these sadhanas (spiritual practices) yielded the same experience of divine union although travelling on vastly different paths. He likened it to climbing a mountain by many different paths all of which eventually reached the summit.

This summit, or ground of being, is Brahman the Absolute, the Supreme Reality. About this he says “Nothing exists except the One. That One is the Supreme Brahman. So long as he keeps the I in us, He reveals to us that it is He who as the Primal Energy, creates, preserves and destroys the universe.” (The Gospel of Ramakrishna p 242)

Generally the name Brahman is used when the absolute is inactive (Pure Awareness – Consciousness at rest) and Sakti, or Kali is used for the Cosmic Energy- Consciousness in motion. Ramakrishna worshipped Kali as Sakti, this divine energy which creates preserves and destroys the universe. These aspects are also personified as Brahma the creator, Vishnu the preserver and Siva the destroyer. Note that Siva is also regarded as denoting the Absolute, in that once all manifestation has been destroyed only the Absolute remains. Ramakrishna states that:

Brahman and Sakti are identical. The Primordial Power is ever at play. When we think of it as inactive, that is to say not engaged in the acts of creation, preservation and destruction, the we call it Brahman. But when it engages in those activities we call it Kali or Sakti. The Reality is one and the same [Consciousness]; the difference is in name and form. (The Gospel of Ramakrishna p 134-135)

There are two schools of thought the Vedanta and the Purana. According to the Vedanta the world is illusory like a dream. But according to the Purana God himself has become the twenty four cosmic principles*. Worship God both within and without. As long as God keeps the awareness of ‘I’ in us so long do sense objects exist and we cannot very well speak of the world as a dream. (The Gospel of Ramakrishna p 243)

The implication is that as long as any sense of identification prevails (even as an instrument of Pure Awareness) one should see all things as manifestations of the divine. Once all identification has been transcended, by realizing that no separate self exists, the One (Consciousness) is revealed and every thing in manifestation can be regarded as ‘illusory’ – that is ephemeral and having no inherent existence as a separate object. All deities are aspects of the one Absolute Reality. About this Ramakrishna says: “In the same way some address the Reality as ‘Allah’ some as ‘God’ some as ‘Brahman’ some as ‘Kali’ and others by such names as Rama, Jesus, Durga, Hari.” (The Gospel of Ramakrishna p 135)

These statements are not just intellectual knowledge but were actual realizations of his many sadhanas which also include following Christianity and Islam. So the many different gods and goddesses in Hinduism represent different aspects of the absolute Brahman/Kali, Purusha/Prakriti, Rama/Sita, Krishna/Radha, call it what you will….. Generally the divine energy was considered to be feminine and the absolute masculine, in all of the previous cases the first name is that denoting the Absolute (Pure Awareness – Consciousness at rest) and the second the divine energy (motion in Consciousness or Consciousness in motion) which derives from, resides in and subsides back into the Absolute; for all motion arises from stillness, exists in a substratum of stillness and finally returns to stillness …

The point is that whichever sadhana you perform, or whichever god/goddess or natural phenomenon you worship, if you follow the practice with dedication, self-surrender, and perseverance until finally you completely lose yourself (losing all identification as a separate being) you will experience the same divine union with the Absolute. Or, more accurately, you will realise that you are, and have never been separate from, the Absolute – Consciousness.

* ‘The twenty four cosmic principles’ denotes all of creation.




Phil - Thanks for the reminder!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby kafi » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:42 pm

Andy,

you asked about my personal experience with my spirit guides.

First, I want to point you to an older post. I wrote something about guidance here, viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12728

Guidance doesn’t need to come only as contact with an entity. It can come in many forms. Dreams, recurring events, songs in the head, visions.

The first time, I tried to receive a message from my wise inner voice, I sat down with an urgent question about how to behave in a conflict situation. I wrote it down, then cleared my mind and waited for the answer. Then I wrote down whatever appeared in my mind. At that time there was a wise answer, but no entity with a face as a guide.

Several years later, I had a time where I felt a strong feeling of remorse or sadness. It manifested as a very unpleasant drawing feeling in the stomach. I asked before sleep where that sensation in the stomach came from since there was no apparent reason for it. As answer, I had a dream where some guy was standing behind me , putting both arms around my stomach from behind. He was tall, in jeans and T-shirt, with short blond curly hair. He wanted to lift me up in order to help me pass over a small abyss or gap in front of me. I turned back and looked at him. He looked kind of unhappy . I saw that he had a hard time lifting me over that abyss. So , I said politely, “Oh, I think you don’t need to help me. I can do it alone.” And then I woke up.
The same entity appeared in later dreams. Fortunately, then he had a happier look on his face.

When I read the Raj material, it said that we all have guides and that we can even ask their names. I though that was cool and asked that my guide reveal his name to me ( before falling asleep) . Then, in the phase between sleep and waking up, his name appeared spelled out, in typewritten letters.

I googled the name and found that there are several people who channel an entity with this name. But “my” guide didn’t appear to me like the ones on the internet. Neither did he talk about the same kind of stuff as the other channeled ones. Therefore, I think it is probably a different entity even though the name is the same.

Later, I had visions of my guide also during the day. For example, usually he appears dressed casually, in jeans and T-shirt. But one day, he appeared with a nice shirt with collar. I asked him, “Why are you dressed so business-like today? “ He smiled and replied, “Yeah, because I really mean business.” Oh! That was a hint that he meant that I needed to get my act together and start writing and sharing and stop procrastinating.

There were dreams, where I saw two guides, but only as shadows. I could not discern any faces.
And lately I have the impression that I shift from the former guide to a new one.

At one point during the journey, I fell into the pit of the void. I was hanging out in transcendent land for 3 months or so. It was a phase of low energy and almost DP/DR like symptoms.
Afterwards, I returned to life again. The important point I want to share is that since that phase the communication with the guides has changed. I can still get blocks of thought as messages. But I don’t see faces anymore.

When I read the account of Pam Kribbe ( she channels Jeshua) , I found it impressive that she can feel it when he is near:
http://themagicofbeing.squarespace.com/ ... ribbe.html
I asked, “I would like to feel it physically if my guide is there.”
As an answer I get a tingling sensation down one leg .

So, if you want to experiment with communcation, the important steps are: Ask. Become still. Listen. Expect an answer.
Last edited by kafi on Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:18 pm

Hey Andy,

In response to your question, no I have not had any luck yet either with personal guides, although I am making an effort to open up to life in order to contact them. No luck though yet. But I (like kafi) have started to see how things in my life are manifested by my own doing in a number of ways. Manifestation is always happening. Therefore, I feel that the Universe communicates with itself in a number of different ways. Whether you contact your spirit guides or not, like you said, it's all good. However, I was trying to make a statement for the people who were deterring you from this path.

Sighclone wrote:The idea that consciousness is primary, and matter is secondary has been presented by many. In the example of Schroedinger's cat, the cat is either dead or alive (both and neither) until somebody looks in the box. The "collapse of the wave form" happens only when we watch or record and then look at the record of an electron or photon stream exiting the double-slit. The extreme form is "What cannot be observed does not exist." More moderate interpretations are more popular today (see the big Wikipedia article, which has freshly morphed, itself, by the way.) My point here is that there is experimental support that some kind of consciousness/observer (maybe even another atom??) is needed to validate the existence of anything. Ramana suggests that the universe and its human observer arise together, as a dream, and that the original state is unmanifest Stillness. I'm just suggesting a correlation, not causality, and certainly not dogma.


Andy, thanks for clarifying your position. I'm not suggesting that Consciousness is not primary. If anything, I think the evidence is there that Aware Energy is the primary "stuff" of existence or basically IS existence itself, and there is really nothing else happening here at all other than Energy in motion, basically, a massive Cosmic dream of sorts for Source Awareness. I can't tell you that I know this for a fact, but I feel that this seems quite likely.

However, in my last post, I was just pointing out that the article you posted seems a bit solipsitic and is not really in alignment with traditional Vedantic texts. Traditional Vedanta acknowledges a world independent from the human mind. The article seems to be claiming that the ego doesn't even really exist and is more aligned with Direct Path teachings seemingly, which I don't resonate with because it is a form of solipsism which also suggests that there is no world outside of our human perception. Rupert Spira actually has an interesting video on why solipsism is a form of delusion which I will post below.

On the other extreme, there does not need to be an actual objective universe in existence apart from our perception, but instead, a co-creation of a Universe based on every form's perception or existence. Experience is creation. Creation is experience. There is no world apart from our experiential perception of it, but it's the experience of every particle in existence and not just our human minds, which is exactly what the article seems to be implying. The article claims all objects as merely 'sensory' and 'ideas and thoughts' which really doesn't make any sense. Because that would imply that a tree outside of my window is merely comprised of the sensory of this human body and completely invalidates the experience of that tree outside of a sensory perception in my own mind, not taking into account that the tree is very much a form of experience just like my body is. Source Awareness is experiencing through every form and non form in existence. Human experience is merely one potential avenue for experience. That's just how I see it.

Here's the spira link:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2anz9QKD7Y
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:12 am

We fear that which we do not understand.


I'd suggest that for those who are aware of being 'sensitive' to energies outside of their own experiencing (kind of second person 'stuff'), that they do open themselves to learning about it and - for me - that was joining a spiritual development circle and learning how to not have it overwhelm, and to qualify any information that might be offered.

More and more as science is discovering the effects of genetics and new 'species' of humans that have passed down their genes into modern humans, I think these capacities are as most things are, a combination of genetics and environment.

I don't think it is a coincidence that Indigenous societies treat these things differently. I do think there are likely genetic differences in some of our ancestors.

I don't think it's a coincidence that some countries / cultures accept it, and others demonise it. It seems to be that the same countries/cultures do the same with most things in their experiences and environment, either harmonise/reconcile, or fight/destroy.

It comes back again, for me, to either making enemy, obstacle or means to an end of a thing, or being in acceptance, enjoyment, enthusiasm in aware states.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
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Re: Astral Projection, etc.

Postby runstrails » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:06 am

Andy wrote: But synchronous events keep filling my days, messages from the greater universe in themselves. Today, for example I needed to inspect a farm to appraise it. The usual farm hand who drove me around last time suddenly had a medical problem and sent his friend. Later in discussion with the alternate driver, it turned out that, as an EMT, he was the first person to arrive at the nearby accident scene where my stepson was killed about three months ago, and I got excellent information from him. Daily, sometimes hourly synchronicities... it is All Good!


Pretty cool synchronicity. I'm glad you got to talk with him about the accident. Your practical, optimistic view of life is such an inspiration.
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