Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:30 am

Yeah, that's a pretty broad subject line. I've been pondering this for a bit now and I'd love to get a conversation going here, although I don't know how many people would be interested in talking about this in general.

I've healed my body of the main symptoms of Crohns Disease through diet and nutrition alone. However, I have not yet, gotten rid of the cause, as a bunch of other stress related disorders still exist including fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue (at times) that are well beyond merely diet/nutrition. I've done enough research to know that almost all chronic health conditions stem from stress (fight/flight response) and life itself, is Energy. There is no health condition that exists in and of itself, without some sort of energetic blockage as its cause. Therefore, stress related conditions are essentially forming as Energy blocks, which in turn throw the entire body out of whack, which is what's happened to me over the past 6 years or so. Everything in the human body works synergistically to create homeostasis and it all begins on an energetic level.

I've been reading 'The Healing Code' (recommended by Nanci Danison) and the book talks about how stress is stored in the body at the cellular level in the form of memories. Meaning, traumatic memories are stored there and re-activated throughout life. It can be something as benign as being looked at the wrong way as a child and in turn, having that condition you later on in life. Therefore, the book goes on to say that something such as the situation of 'being looked at the wrong way' creates an emotional response based on a 'wrong' belief (which I don't agree with) at the energetic level. When stress is then stored at the cellular level, the cell walls break down and in turn, the immune system becomes hampered and then disease begins in the body. This isn't the first time that this has been talked about. Stress and health have been interrelated as far as back as Dr. Hans Selye's work.

Yet, what I don't resonate with in the book, is the constant reference to 'healing a wrong belief'. From the Greater Perspective of Being itself, how can there possibly be a 'wrong' belief if that very belief exists as it does? It's the same way with the ego perspective, which so many continue to label as non-existent or wrong, not realizing that the very fact that EVERY one of us has experienced Ego at some point or another (and often still do), is a testament to its very existence and if something exists, then how could it possibly be wrong, other than what it is perceived to be, by the limited perspective that claims as such?

On the other hand, the way I see it, is not that Ego is 'wrong', but Ego is a very limited perspective and because of certain beliefs which do tend to be very limiting, they limit energy from flowing especially throughout the body and often manifest as stress, especially when we constantly resist, resist and resist the flow of life (energy) which in turn can (and often does) lead to many health conditions. But, the very existence of the belief itself, regardless of how limiting it might be (such as "I am worthless") is an indication that the mere potential for any belief exists, just like the belief in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus. Is the belief in Santa Claus wrong? Wrong would assume that there is a right. Instead, the higher aligned we are vibrationally with Love itself, is where 'comfortable' health comes into play and that is when we become more and more and more unlimited. The lower vibrational frequencies are associated with fear itself and as a result manifest those frequencies in the physical body in the form of stress as a huge sign/smack in the face for us to wake up and align more with BEING itself. It's BEING's own way of communicating with itself via the human vehicle that something is out of alignment vibrationally and is manifesting as a physical ailment in the body. It means, life has been resisted and resisted and resisted for so long, that stress has thrown the body completely out of alignment energetically and metabolically speaking.

Michael Brown author of 'The Presence Process" (also recommended by Nanci Danison) refrains from using the term 'healing' because it implies that something is 'wrong' which needs fixing. Instead, he uses the term integration as far as integrating emotions that have not been faced and in turn, blocking energy from flowing, which in turn create physical/mental turmoil for us. So, the integration of old emotional trauma by incorporating it into our experience (facing our fears) is a very prominent path to healing in my opinion.

I'd love to hear from others on their own perspectives/experiences of healing and how it all relates if you'd like to respond.
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 7:13 am

E2B said: Yet, what I don't resonate with in the book, is the constant reference to 'healing a wrong belief'. From the Greater Perspective of Being itself, how can there possibly be a 'wrong' belief if that very belief exists as it does?


Good question and I'm afraid it comes down the the ack of words - the intention from the sender and the interpretation in the receiver. Would mistaken belief - a mistaken interpretation that one thing meant another be more helpful?

A belief is an interpretation accepted and held onto, taken within.

It's (for me) not so much right or wrong, but it absolutely does bring a different experience depending on your 'belief'.

If a thing is interpreted as one thing and held onto tightly no one and no thing is giving it that meaning except us. No one is holding it to us, except us. No one is bending our insides and our brains inside out over it, except us, based on this belief, this belief based purely on a belief that our interpretation was correct and worthy of holding onto, creates the perception of the experience.

The mistake of holding onto an interpretation of being looked at the wrong way as a child >>> meaning what we interpreted it to mean, is a good example. It's really no different to realising that none of this is actually 'wrong' it just is. But by taking our interpretation personally as if it is an authority, one sets oneself up to hold onto that - for future reference really - like keeping drawers full of discarded string in 'case' we might need it later.

Whereas if one lets it go, does not take our perspective too seriously or hold our interpretations to be the be all and end all, then less 'sticks' and 'penetrates'.

The things that have already 'stuck' and 'penetrated' however don't unstick and unpenetrate themself - we rolled them up and hid or buried them somewhere 'safe' so they would not be lost. They are not going to jump out like someone not found in a game of hide and seek and say TA-DA here I am ... I was hiding really well!!!

We often forgot we even hid them, buried them, let alone where or why.

We have to go find them and bring them into the light. Or not, no choice is wrong.

Harmony / disharmony can be about environmental impact - outside in, (think here of opportunistic bugs delighting in chinks in the armour of the immune system weakened by stress) or inside out (think here of the journey of a splinter or bug being excised from the body by our natural system saying this 'bug' is not in harmony with the rest of us and working it out).

The out-to-in illnesses target weaknesses in the immune system, and about the best we can do is to be kind to our immune system and be respectfully aware that it will be under-performing when we are in stress - and being realistic about the environmental influences we subject our selves to. Toxic environments do not just mean leaking nuclear power plants :wink:

The in-to-out manifestation is more likely to be recurring 'illness' or chronic symptoms of dis-ease wherein the immune system is pushing shit out of us and we keep going no, I need that, I'll keep that .. and pushing it back in, or the immune system 'cleanses' the pollutant/poison and we keep pouring the pollutant/poison back in - reinforcing our belief if you like. The more we push in or hold onto the pollutant the more 'strength' the immune system has to apply to bring balance.

There is a third area of dis-ease one when the immune system goes off on its own spiral in panic that it's not doing it's job well enough and it over achieves, finding 'enemies' in healthy cells and organs but is absolutely convinced it's attacking an enemy. That immune system is kind of like the SAS / Navy Seals gone psycho. My idea is that all we can do with them is love them, disarm them, stop giving them reason to panic and calm them back into harmony. In so doing we limit the spread of harm it has already created and deal with the realities of that - a dead pancreas killed by our own immune system is not going to get up and start working again - it's dead, killed, stuffed.


But in some over-reactive immune system responses instead of noticing them in the early stages and limiting the fallout we let them go until they are totally chronic and then the knee jerk reaction and many modern medicines go the other way and kill them (chemo) or attack them back immune suppressors etc.

I admit this makes no sense to me although the medical field has masses of data about how 'effective' they are. I agree they may be effective in killing the immune system ---- but to what end ultimately? Bit like cutting out parts of one's brain to get rid of certain thoughts maybe - I don't even understand it enough to criticise.

Remember the word disease merely means not at ease - against ease, not in balance or harmony. For me 'fighting' disease is a bit like having a war for peace. The long term effects are self evident really, the stronger we developed antibiotics (anti life) the stronger the bugs have become, like spiralling warfare / weapons in 'trouble spots'.

With some memories /interpretations of events or experiences they are so deeply buried we've forgotten we even have them there sitting in the drawer with all the balls of string, we just hold them there in the dark in case we need them again, and we only trot them out when something that we interpret the same way occurs - but usually we don't actively recognise it as the same, nor do we hold it apart from us and go hmmm why did I interpret that that way? Is there anything else I've interpreted that way? Let me look (objectively) in that drawer.

It's more an interpretation than a 'wrong belief', and you're right that at the universal level it's all okay - the universal is not having the solely and only your interpretation of the experience and therefore solely personal experience - only you are.

The universal is having the equilibrium of all experiences and in that there is no perception of isolated individual imbalance or disease experienced.

And because it has been misinterpreted and is seeking its own equilibrium, like energy keeps bumping up against it so you can face it again and rebalance, rather than keep shoving the same interpretation into the drawer with the rolled up balls of string.

Integration or healing - really it is just rebalancing the interpretation of experience.

I can tell you in the nde, many a wrong belief / misinterpretations were 'healed' - all the drawers were open and the contents spilled all over the floor with all lights blazing lol!! Oh look at that!!!

That's not to say that other 'wrong beliefs' haven't found their way in, they have.

There is a form of energy healing that 'recognises' imbalances, really just interpreting and translating energy, kind of someone else joining the Hide and Seek game without the blinkers that we have on. The thing is it is not owned by anyone or able to be patented or analysed or anything because it purely is of the greater universal.

I'd experienced it with my Granny, and with Indonesian and other healers and I 'accidentally' fell on another who practised it in conjunction with acupuncture. I was paying for the acupuncture and he did this as a complimentary 'extra' and that kind of made sense.

The acupuncture was warm and comforting, nice. But the cranio-sacral therapy that he didn't even really intend to do - it just 'happened' and even though he knew about it, had studied it, he hadn't used it for ages and even though I've experienced energy healing it didn't occur to me to ask for it either - it just 'happened'.

It uncovered a thing I had no idea was even there, and no idea that that was what I was really there for to have 'realigned' brought into light and harmony. Yes a memory, yes an event / experience well buried & well meant to be buried, it shocked both of us and absolutely released the tensions holding it to me and manifesting in physical ways that had brought me to him for acupuncture. They run a crystal shop too so they're up for all sorts of criticism :wink:

I offer the reverse of 'support' for it - the criticism of it as it has manifested for some in this Why Cranial Therapy Is Silly article about cranio-sacral therapy, one form of 'energy healing'. http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRel ... anial.html
Their claims are reasonable, but the release in personal experience is also unarguable.
So I'll leave you to make up your own mind.

So, the integration of old emotional trauma by incorporating it into our experience (facing our fears) is a very prominent path to healing in my opinion.

Agreed, in order to be at face with our fears though, we either have to fall or be dragged into the dark with them (illness etc), or bring them into the light in a higher energy field. No choice is wrong.... :wink:
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:10 pm

Thanks for the response SmileyJen. I can resonate with much of what you say here.

I like the term 'mis-taken' better than wrong.

Whereas if one lets it go, does not take our perspective too seriously or hold our interpretations to be the be all and end all, then less 'sticks' and 'penetrates'.


When it sticks and penetrates, kaboom happens within the body.

The in-to-out manifestation is more likely to be recurring 'illness' or chronic symptoms of dis-ease wherein the immune system is pushing shit out of us and we keep going no, I need that, I'll keep that .. and pushing it back in, or the immune system 'cleanses' the pollutant/poison and we keep pouring the pollutant/poison back in - reinforcing our belief if you like. The more we push in or hold onto the pollutant the more 'strength' the immune system has to apply to bring balance.


Your reference to modern (conventional) medicine in its 'destroy all' approach is pretty accurate from my experience. Sickness in the body is ultimately a sign that the body is essentially detoxing itself from emotional (energetic) and physical pollutants including heavy metals and other toxins and such. It's a sign that the body has been out of balance on a number of levels and it's crying out to us to communicate with us to get back into alignment. Approaching disease from the mistaken (I love this term now) perspective of merely killing off pathogenic organisms and blocking symptoms, is just so utterly missing the point, when symptoms themselves are communicating with us where our alignment is, and this perspective stems from the position of separation, in the lack of understanding of the big picture of how emotionally and physically, everything is interrelated and healing truly does begin on the energetic level. The guy who runs Quack watch is one of the more close minded, limited perspectives I have yet to see. I used to get very angry reading his articles, but have come to accept his perspective in the understanding of how he likely has been conditioned to think and react. His perspective itself stems so clearly from separation and fear, that all you can do is feel for the guy in how limited he is. And I guess, that too is all good. Even if his website is causing harm to others in creating fear where fear does not need to be (in holistic health), we can only control how we respond in relation. Oh and btw, I've had cranio-sacral work by a former massage therapist of mine. I had no problems with it at all.

in order to be at face with our fears though, we either have to fall or be dragged into the dark with them (illness etc), or bring them into the light in a higher energy field. No choice is wrong.... :wink:


Absolutely. I'm working through much of that now. Work in progress :)

Thanks for your contribution Jen, exactly the response I was looking for.
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:30 pm

E2B, I can't be the help Jen was, but I wanted to say I'm glad to hear that you've gotten on top of some of your health issues. That is inspiring for the rest of us! I have gotten more and more clear that western medicine is extremely limited in both their understanding and effectiveness. They're great if you've been in a car wreck, yeah, but for chronic illness, or even the very concept of health itself, they leave a lot to be desired.

You do Qigong don't you? I first heard about it here on this forum, from I think you and WW, and I've been doing it regularly now (most days and a class once a week) for 5 months now. Qigong is really opening up for me the mysteries of the energy flow in the body, and letting me see how our culture is so illness-oriented instead of wellness-oriented. What I mean is most people only take steps about their health when they get sick (not speaking of you E2B) and how much better would we all feel if we lived in a culture that promoted true wellness? For me that's what qigong is, promoting a healthy physicality through learning to move energy through your body.

Ken Wilber, who I mostly admire, started something called Integral Life Practice. The theory is that the optimum spiritual practice covers all aspects of life: spiritual, physical, psychological, financial, work, relationships, emotional. That is, taking care of your physical health is part of spiritual practice. Paying your bills is part of spiritual practice. Keeping your relationships conflict-free is part of spiritual practice. I like this.
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:25 am

Kathleen said: Ken Wilber, who I mostly admire, started something called Integral Life Practice. The theory is that the optimum spiritual practice covers all aspects of life: spiritual, physical, psychological, financial, work, relationships, emotional. That is, taking care of your physical health is part of spiritual practice. Paying your bills is part of spiritual practice. Keeping your relationships conflict-free is part of spiritual practice. I like this.


I like this too Kathleen, and wholeheartedly agree. We used to have a general public hospital here that had a 'holistic' well being approach / philosophy to illness. The difference in care and support of patients was tangible. I dare say that's been lost somewhat as its been kind of 'massaged' into more main stream and just patching up, sticking a band aid on, or killing stuff that is presenting on the surface.

I appreciate both forms of medicine/healing. Although it tends to be (I 'noticed') that when 'modern medicine' can do no thing with a thing, in my experiences a healer has just 'turned up'. Which is kind of wonderful.

Even in Qigong / Tai Chi for me, we can overbalance though - the other way I mean. I don't demonise or limit my exposure to modern medicine any more than I would energy healing. I tend to evaluate either as honestly and fairly as I can. It's kind of a hint to me that if either 'practitioner' demonises the other - I'm outta there!!

Balance in all things.

Even in the notion of keeping your relationships conflict-free. I'd suggest, conflict - fair & honest.

Conflicts - differences of opinions, perspectives, preferences, interpretations, and relative levels of awareness, capacity and willingness occur - it just is. The overbalancing I would speak to would lead to, I guess, malignant relating for the sake of peace or for the sake of war. They are both subtle forms of deception and intrusions on balanced - fair, honest - harmony, and include the sorts of things we would bury in those drawers with the string. I would tend to say keep your relating (even in 'conflict') honest - honesty being the highest form of love. Some of the ill-effects of not embracing conflict as a natural occurrence come out as things like passive-aggressive, stonewalling, contempt, avoidance etc

Just as out to in 'invasions' 'upsets' occur physically, so to do they practically, emotionally, intellectually, financially etc the 'conflict' occurs, just hopefully within our awareness, capacity and willingness to meet them in a balanced manner.

If one leans too far in Qi Gong when energy is moving with intensity in one direction, one will still fall over :wink:

Imbalance is also in over-enthusiastic (zealous) spirituality where things are taken to extremes, so I like the notion the optimum spiritual practice covers all aspects of life: spiritual, physical, psychological, financial, work, relationships, emotional. The optimum physical, the optimum psychological, the optimum financial, the optimum work, the optimum relationships, and the optimum emotional experiences all integrate and feed into each other.

Stuff happens, and our responses to it dictate the experience of it. It's helpful to look at it holistically rather than just in the 'stream' that is its primary site of impact. Whether it's an illness, a divorce, being out of work, or winning the lottery - it affects all of the areas. If we just concentrate on one or another, the other areas are going to come to our attention by whatever 'force' is necessary to get us to notice them.

It leads me to a notion my Granny had, and was expressed in a different way by ET, but interpreted the same by me.

My Granny said: What's for you, won't go by you.

ET said to the question, How can I know that what I'm experiencing is good for my growth? With - Because it is what you are experiencing.

Resistance to what we are experiencing, or denial of what we're experiencing, or excising elements of what we're experiencing, rather than honest evaluation of it; blaming only others for it rather than accepting our own part in interpreting it; excusing or blaming self and/or others dishonestly or unfairly in an other than it is what it is sense; or taking our identity from it - all have the effect of holding it to us until such time as we reconcile the parts of it. So even a mis-take is not 'wrong', it just is.

In the ancient Chinese wisdom of Tzu Wei - there are 'heavenly stem' things that WILL be, cannot not be, experienced for our greater growth; and then there are 'earthly branch' things that MAY be, experienced depending on the choices we apply to the heavenly stem - the 'what is' stuff.

It's all just an adventure :D


KB said: I can't be the help Jen was

Who says? :P

I pinched this gem from your Game of God topic -

KB Said:
When you are asleep, or unconscious, and believe you are your ego-identity, it is hard to hear that all experience is equally valid. As you wake up, what you discover is that even the worst experiences are part of the whole, life couldn't exist without them. Then, and only then, can you laugh at it all. Enlightenment doesn't just mean light-as-opposed-to-dark, it also means light-as-opposed-to-heavy. We become light-hearted, see the perfection in everything, and can thus take pleasure in everything, can laugh at everything.
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:03 am

Good responses folks.

KB, I think you're thinking of Onceler with the Qi Gong/Tai Chi. I do yoga. Although, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to start doing some Qi Gong. I'm starting on reiki now as well.

KB, I very much agree with what you've said and while I agree with Jen about the balance in healing, I have no problem condemning modern conventional medicine (at least in the US) for its role in not treating chronic diseases. Conventional Medicine is a spectacular tool in emergency and acute care. The Boston Bombings that happened a couple of years ago....every single person who went into the hospital with disgusting, severe injuries, came out alive. That is a testament to the incredible power of Conventional Medicine in treating emergency and acute cases.

However, when it comes to dealing with chronic diseases, it's a whole other story, because of the control that big Pharma has here in this country, they essentially run the medical establishment, along with the insurance companies and it's merely become a money making machine focused merely on treating symptoms. I work in the field reading medical charts everyday for a living, so I see first hand what goes on. I of course accept it, because it is WHAT IS. :) Ultimately, it's an industry built on ego/separation. Any industry built on making money, is often built from the perspective of separation and not Love itself. So, it's easy to empathize with the industry as we've all felt the strong pull of separation at some point or another.

What happens is, people in this country because of stress and diet, allow themselves to get so unhealthy, that conventional medicine is then called in to throw cholesterol lowering meds, bloods pressure meds, diabetes meds, heart disease meds at people, instead of focusing on whole-istic healing before people reach this level of unhealthiness, where inevitably drugs become the only solution (even though, they are not a solution, but merely a symptom stopper).

However, I don't believe holistic health has the answers either. Any paradigm focused on merely treating symptoms whether it's via drugs or herbs, without taking into account the energetic expressions that we are, which in turn trickle down into the physical (cellular) is missing the point in treating chronic disease.

I believe kundalini awakening is real thing. Of course, getting caught up in the concept of it, is missing point as well. But, Energy itself is the culprit for all of our health and it's all vibratory in nature.

That's my take
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:34 am

E2B said: However, I don't believe holistic health has the answers either. Any paradigm focused on merely treating symptoms whether it's via drugs or herbs, without taking into account the energetic expressions that we are, which in turn trickle down into the physical (cellular) is missing the point in treating chronic disease.


Ah, there's a slight difference in our interpretation/translation of what is 'holistic health' E2B - you're referring to the 'industry' the commercial application that in reality if shallow, has the same 'profit by illness' overlaying. It's tricky to find balance, even in the practice / practising.

Yes we have to in this commercial world 'trade' for goods and services, but if this is the 'primary' motivation of course it will have the same outcome as commercial modern medicine drug pushing etc balance, balance, balance.

Truly holistic medicine is open to all streams and potentials affecting balance.

It's actually quite ridiculous for me that once you've tried everything else that you think it 'might be' or 'might help' the 'healer' turns up - be that through an experience or through another person/entity (be that energy in the form of herb or drug - they're both compounds of elements, prayer, forgiveness, connection, cleansing, reiki, physical or energetic manipulation or surgery).

We only by agreement trade one thing for another - if the 'price' is the goal, then anything is operating on a false value. Value is either in balance, or out of balance too, with resultant consequences.

Maybe it's why energy healing cannot be quantified or qualified or even accepted within the 'value' system of modern medicine / or even if pushed to commercialism of herbs etc for commercialism's sake, those modalities.

A person who does not charge any money for that healing service but allows insight, intuition and rebalancing to flow through them freely and spread onto/into us, is the sort of healer /healing that I'm speaking of.

It might be purposeful in awareness, capacity and willingness allowing insight to be clear, and/or energy to flow through and mingle with the energies of another - absolutely with respect and absolutely with no unintended or unknown consequences.

Or it might be not recognised as purposeful - even be through an interaction with a child or another 'innocent' even those who are 'innocent enemies', that are vibrating at a higher frequency which can do no thing but illuminate where the blockage is and its direct consequential and symptomatic effects. With continued 'connection' either melts it with acceptance or shifts it with the application of love energy out to in. No thing is more powerful than love, no energy is more powerful than unrestricted love energy, no harm can ever come of or from love in its pure state. It's freaking so powerful it scares the crap out of us though!!

None of which can be done without our acceptance/permission I might add.


Should I describe the sorts of interactions E2B? I'm not talking about going to a 'health food shop' - although it can be.
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:10 am

E2B said: The Boston Bombings that happened a couple of years ago....every single person who went into the hospital with disgusting, severe injuries, came out alive. That is a testament to the incredible power of Conventional Medicine in treating emergency and acute cases.


^^ made me wonder - how are they financially, emotionally, psychically, relationally as well as physically - we do much better with increased awareness that we have now, but these things are part of the 'score card' of our society's response to 'stuff' too. Returned war veterans as a case in point, they may be alive, they may even be on the 'winning side', but are they able to fully live in harmony with their experiences?
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:00 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
Ah, there's a slight difference in our interpretation/translation of what is 'holistic health' E2B - you're referring to the 'industry' the commercial application that in reality if shallow, has the same 'profit by illness' overlaying. It's tricky to find balance, even in the practice / practising.


Actually, no, that's my fault for being vague, because yes, when I wrote that about holistic health, I was merely thinking about the commercial application as you said and I probably should have clarified that. I totally agree with everything you've written here.

Should I describe the sorts of interactions E2B? I'm not talking about going to a 'health food shop' - although it can be.


Sure, I'd love to hear about it. :)
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:09 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:
E2B said: The Boston Bombings that happened a couple of years ago....every single person who went into the hospital with disgusting, severe injuries, came out alive. That is a testament to the incredible power of Conventional Medicine in treating emergency and acute cases.


^^ made me wonder - how are they financially, emotionally, psychically, relationally as well as physically - we do much better with increased awareness that we have now, but these things are part of the 'score card' of our society's response to 'stuff' too. Returned war veterans as a case in point, they may be alive, they may even be on the 'winning side', but are they able to fully live in harmony with their experiences?


Good points Jen and I can't disagree with what you are pointing here. I don't know much about the survivors except for one. Jeff, whose story moved me so incredibly much (he lost both of his legs and there were some god awful gruesome photos at the time) has been recovering wonderfully with his wife and just had a baby and one of the more moving things I read about him was that he wanted to talk to the surviving bomber in prison as he forgave him and I was so touched after reading that. However, how is he emotionally/relationally/ physically/financially? No idea. Perhaps PTSD. Who knows? Yet, isn't this one of those opportunities where we can possibly say that a soul group (including the bombers) incarnated together to experience such things as this? Maybe. Maybe not.

I was just showing how acute emergency care does have a place in our system as biased as I might be towards whole-istic health. Granted, I don't really see it as a bias. I see whole-istic health as the only true form of healing when the connection is understood.
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby Onceler » Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:34 pm

Yeah, I've been doing Qi gong for about 4 years on a daily basis. Some of this time I've believe it to be very powerful, life changing, can't function without it. Other times I'm, meh.

What Qi gong is for me ultimately is way to meditate while moving and pay attention to how my mind moves through my body. It has allowed a platform from which to observe how I think about my body in great detail and the effects of those thoughts or beliefs on my body. I have come to believe that the interference of our thinking and beliefs is fundamental to healing or not healing. First and foremost, healing takes time. In that time interval our minds go crazy. We are not good at being patient and neutral. We mentally focus on the pain or illness repeatedly, like picking a scab with our attention. In this process we form ideas about the status of our healing, "I'll never heal", "this is taking to long", etc.

I have learned, as my mind moves thru my body while doing Qi gong, to observe all the negative thinking that arises. It's as if these thoughts and beliefs are tied into physical locations in our body and they form calloused, calcified structures of thought/pain/emotional entities over time. Just like with any other meditative practice, this relies on self observation and awareness of thoughts beliefs and emotions.

Sometimes, when my thoughts 'stick' in certain parts of my body, I just observe, let be and move on. Other times I will focus on the pure emotional sensation associated with that construct and feel it intensely and then move on. This can be very therapeutic, as if the emotions were trying to come through, but couldn't with all the damn thinking going on. Other times I breathe into that spot. Usually, if the negative thought constructs persist and run their loops, I'll simply say, 'my knee is healing' and move on.

I think the key is to pay attention, but not too much attention to the negative, and finish with a positive emotion and thought....kinda like raising children. If a positive thought is not possible in the moment, then a neutral thought or shifting away from the negative is preferable....shifting to counting breaths or something else benign. Also, we need to remind ourselves that healing takes time. We watch what comes up in this interval, and gauge whether it promotes healing or not, and we attend to it or not. Our attention, where we put it, is ultimately the key.

As Jen says, find a balance.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:28 pm

So now's a good time to say--thanks Onceler for turning me on to QiGong! (and WW). Yes I agree with the concept of balance. I think I said western medicine has its part to play. They are great for putting bodies back together. In terms of being illness-oriented, what I was really talking about was the larger culture, not just medicine. I'll just talk about the US, since that's where I live.

1. You can't watch TV or read a magazine without having pharmaceutical ads in your face, promising a simple solution to any physical problem: pop a pill. Don't worry about why you're ill, just take our pill and relax. 2. Our food industry is industrialized, pumping out pesticide-laden produce and the meat of mistreated animals that do not promote health. Our government subsidizes the industrial farms pumping out toxic food instead of organic and small farms producing vegetables and fruit for local markets. 3. Our manufacturing, energy, and technology sector poisons our air and water, which poisons our people. 4. When you get to medicine…it's not just the doctor's fault that people don't want to take responsibility for their health. Once I was seeing my family doc for a checkup. She asked me what had been going on since the last time I'd seen her. I told her my back had been hurting some and I added some new yoga positions that focused on the back, which cleared it up and she said, "You're the only one of my patients that does that kind of thing. Everyone else just asks for the pill." So its the ingrained conditioning in our culture too, that we can take our health for granted and then have a doctor fix it when something goes wrong. 5, QiGong has made me realize that our European culture has no native systems for movement-for-health. We have gyms of course, where you can pump iron and build up your muscles and get your heart pumping. But not this gentle way of learning to feel your body. I'm not saying QiGong is some miracle panacea, btw, just pointing to it as something that is helping me. Like Onceler said, it's like a moving meditation. I have trouble meditating sitting still and I find that combining it with slow simple movement is very effective.
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:50 pm

Nice posts KB and Onceler.

I agree with you guys. I think yoga accomplishes the same purpose as practices such as tai chi and Qi Gong. But, maybe I'll consider taking up Qi Gong after the good recommendations here. I know my yoga studio offers classes.

KB, your point about the medical industry is well taken and it's pretty keen to the open eye as long as the eye is open :wink:

But, I've also come to understand that the way of thinking of separation in the world that carries over into the medical community (by treating the body separately) is not something that necessarily needs to be fixed. Relatively speaking, yes, it does need to be fixed. However, we all come here into incarnation with a purpose. But, I'd say many of us live our lives without ever fulfilling that purpose. It's the experience we gain in humanness which is for the overall growth of our soul aspect of Being.

Not to sound nihilistic, but the world does not need changing as much as we need to see how we, ourselves react to the many seeming dysfunctions of the world. I mean, ultimately, the medical industry in the US is a disaster in its approach to chronic illness, and often times, I get very angry talking about it, but it is what IS. Much of the world is lost in the belief of separation and that's just how it is. It's what we gain ourselves out of this experience which is likely ever so valuable in the long run, more so than actually changing the experience itself. When we awaken ourselves, we change the energy universally on a very small scale, but it adds up.

Perhaps the world will never wake up, and medicine in the US will continue to be practiced from the perspective of having multiple specialists for every single body system and we will get sicker and sicker as a culture, until we decide to take our own health into our own hands. Or perhaps in a futuristic awakened world, the understanding of who and what we are will finally be taken into consideration when treating patients.

I think we are far away from that though. Luckily, there is an awareness today about the importance of healing as a whole-sitic approach and the understanding of how processed foods do indeed make us/keep us sick.
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby Onceler » Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:01 am

The answer is fairly simple and reiterated in one research study after another. Move more, way more. Eat more fruits and vegetables. Pay attention to what you're doing in the moment (mindfullness).
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Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby KathleenBrugger » Tue Dec 16, 2014 12:40 am

Enlightened2B wrote:But, I've also come to understand that the way of thinking of separation in the world that carries over into the medical community (by treating the body separately) is not something that necessarily needs to be fixed. Relatively speaking, yes, it does need to be fixed. However, we all come here into incarnation with a purpose. But, I'd say many of us live our lives without ever fulfilling that purpose. It's the experience we gain in humanness which is for the overall growth of our soul aspect of Being.

Not to sound nihilistic, but the world does not need changing as much as we need to see how we, ourselves react to the many seeming dysfunctions of the world. I mean, ultimately, the medical industry in the US is a disaster in its approach to chronic illness, and often times, I get very angry talking about it, but it is what IS. Much of the world is lost in the belief of separation and that's just how it is. It's what we gain ourselves out of this experience which is likely ever so valuable in the long run, more so than actually changing the experience itself. When we awaken ourselves, we change the energy universally on a very small scale, but it adds up.

Perhaps the world will never wake up, and medicine in the US will continue to be practiced from the perspective of having multiple specialists for every single body system and we will get sicker and sicker as a culture, until we decide to take our own health into our own hands. Or perhaps in a futuristic awakened world, the understanding of who and what we are will finally be taken into consideration when treating patients.

I think we are far away from that though. Luckily, there is an awareness today about the importance of healing as a whole-sitic approach and the understanding of how processed foods do indeed make us/keep us sick.

Yes I agree with you that there's a chance the world will never wake up. I didn't list all that stuff to say how wrong our culture is, but just to help me understand how many different interconnected factors there are in creating an illness-oriented culture. Certainly getting mad about it is the wrong approach--just another way to make yourself sick. But, our individual conditioning is largely based on our culture's belief-systems, and we can learn a lot about our own programming if we have a clearer-eyed view of our culture. And see better how to extricate ourselves from the culture-based belief systems.
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