Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby beginnersmind » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:20 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
beginnersmind wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Question for Eric and Onceler, can you guys tell me what the difference between Qigong and tai chi is and how it differs from yoga as well? And which practice you would recommend?

Thanks


That's kind of a complicated in answering this. Some say that Qigong is where Tai Chi is derived from, but this would most likely pertain to Taoist Qigong. There is also Buddhist Qigong as well. The movements of Qigong IMO are simpler than Tai Chi and Tai Chi is also an actual martial art, while Qigong is often used in healing (although Tai Chi can do the same).

I am not that experienced with Tai Chi, but I do know that in Qigong there are movements, breathwork (dan tien), standing meditations, and physical knocking along the body with either the fist or side of the hand along with pressure points along the meridians. Tai Chi and Qigong are also more with Eastern Asia.

Yoga is from India (western Asia) and differs in Qigong as it has asanas or certain postures. While there are standing Qigong styles such as Zhan Zhuang, Qigong is usually a flow of movements that flow with the breath. Yoga also flows in certain ways, but also tends to hold postures while breathing through the posture. Of course there is meditation along with pranayama breathing. Prana and Chi are usually condsidered the same thing.

But that is also an over generalization as there are many many styles and techniques of Qigong, Tai Chi, and Yoga. Which one to recommend? I can't really recommend one in particular. I think Qigong is easier to learn than Tai Chi, and I also incorporate some Yoga postures into my practice. I think it is a personal preference.

I've taken classes for Qigong, but have not for Yoga or Tai Chi. A really good beginners video for Yoga IMO is Yoga Zone's "Yoga for Beginners". There is a good video on Youtube for Qigong called, "The Ten Symbols of Longetivity", but there really is no substitute for an actual teacher on learning how to due the movements or postures properly while breathing properly to get the maximum benefit.

Eric


This is fantastic Eric.

Thanks for the info.

I actually do hatha yoga already, although have been laxing a bit lately and have been considering a different practice for the most possible benefit and have seen a few people on this board recommend Qigong, so I was curious about it. The place I do yoga also offers Tai Chi and possibly Qigong.

I'm going to continue the yoga path for now and possibly look into Qigong in the near future. Thanks again


Wow, I can't believe I spelled "do" wrong, or used the incorrect spelling, LOL. I think Laxing can be a trap for any of us, especially when the benefits of the practice start to become normal, because then it can seem as if the practice is not really giving us what we want, because the benefits feel so "normal". That's great that you practice Hatha Yoga. I have tried it with a video DVD. Have you heard of Max Strom? He is a Hatha Yoga instructor and author. He has a really good book that I highly recommend called, "A Life Worth Breathing". He also has a breathing DVD that I use. I suppose whatever practice we choose, the key is sticking with it. I find myself laxing sometimes also.

Erc
beginnersmind
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:42 pm

beginnersmind wrote:
KathleenBrugger wrote:All that is true, and I said "systems." India and China both developed systematic programs of movement--yoga, qigong, tai chi--with very direct links between movements and health benefits. I don't think the West has come up with anything as systematized until modern gym exercises.

I think the west has come up with Pilates, Feldenkrais, and the Alexander Technique for self healing

I also said "native" systems, and by that I meant systems that have been part of the culture for millennia. All three of the systems you mention were developed in the last 100 years. Yoga is over 2000 years old, and qigong is probably older. In addition, the movement systems in both cultures are directly linked to spiritual practice. Can anyone think of a Western body movement system that is linked to spiritual practice that is older than 100 years? Did Christian monks have some kind of sacred movement? I've never heard of anything like it. Is there any Western equivalent to the phenomenon of large groups of Chinese citizens practicing tai chi in parks? Sure some small numbers of westerners do this kind of thing nowadays, but I don't think you can find anything in the US, even in the largest cities, that compares to what you see in China. (Just google "tai chi in China park" or something like it)
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
http://kathleenbrugger.blogspot.com/
User avatar
KathleenBrugger
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby Enlightened2B » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:57 pm

Thanks Onceler and Eric for the responses. I've heard Spring Forest be mentioned a couple of times on this forum. I might look into what it actually is.

Eric, no I have not heard of Max Strom. I will look into the book though. BTW, I've heard a LOT of good things about the Alexander technique along with Feldenkrais.

I go for regular rolfing sessions which is also very helpful I find.
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby beginnersmind » Sun Dec 21, 2014 7:59 pm

KathleenBrugger wrote:
beginnersmind wrote:
KathleenBrugger wrote:All that is true, and I said "systems." India and China both developed systematic programs of movement--yoga, qigong, tai chi--with very direct links between movements and health benefits. I don't think the West has come up with anything as systematized until modern gym exercises.

I think the west has come up with Pilates, Feldenkrais, and the Alexander Technique for self healing

I also said "native" systems, and by that I meant systems that have been part of the culture for millennia. All three of the systems you mention were developed in the last 100 years. Yoga is over 2000 years old, and qigong is probably older. In addition, the movement systems in both cultures are directly linked to spiritual practice. Can anyone think of a Western body movement system that is linked to spiritual practice that is older than 100 years? Did Christian monks have some kind of sacred movement? I've never heard of anything like it. Is there any Western equivalent to the phenomenon of large groups of Chinese citizens practicing tai chi in parks? Sure some small numbers of westerners do this kind of thing nowadays, but I don't think you can find anything in the US, even in the largest cities, that compares to what you see in China. (Just google "tai chi in China park" or something like it)



Don't need to Google, I am well aware of China's practices of Tai Chi, just as I am well aware of Japan's general practice of Rajio Taiso before work (wife is originally from Japan). I am also well aware of how old the practices are in both the east and west as I have quite a few books on all that has been discussed. I only mentioned the three of the west that I am aware of, because these are self healing modalities (though not particularly spiritual). I ain't trying to argue with ya
beginnersmind
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby beginnersmind » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:03 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:Thanks Onceler and Eric for the responses. I've heard Spring Forest be mentioned a couple of times on this forum. I might look into what it actually is.

Eric, no I have not heard of Max Strom. I will look into the book though. BTW, I've heard a LOT of good things about the Alexander technique along with Feldenkrais.

I go for regular rolfing sessions which is also very helpful I find.


I've never done rolfing, but I do go to a Shiatsu which is awesome! I've tried both the Alexander technique and Feldenkrais and I've gotten better results with Feldenkrais, so I tend to lean more towards that.
beginnersmind
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby beginnersmind » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:05 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:Thanks Onceler and Eric for the responses. I've heard Spring Forest be mentioned a couple of times on this forum. I might look into what it actually is.

Eric, no I have not heard of Max Strom. I will look into the book though. BTW, I've heard a LOT of good things about the Alexander technique along with Feldenkrais.

I go for regular rolfing sessions which is also very helpful I find.


You can also check out the movements of "The Ten Symbols of Longevity" Qigong on Youtube
beginnersmind
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:21 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:Thanks Onceler and Eric for the responses. I've heard Spring Forest be mentioned a couple of times on this forum. I might look into what it actually is.

Eric, no I have not heard of Max Strom. I will look into the book though. BTW, I've heard a LOT of good things about the Alexander technique along with Feldenkrais.

I go for regular rolfing sessions which is also very helpful I find.

My QiGong teacher is from the Spring Forest tradition. I'd checked out a couple of other teachers from different traditions before her, and I really like Spring Forest. It's slow, meditative, and all about the flow of energy. I've been doing hatha yoga every morning for 25 years, but I love the emphasis on energy flow in qigong.
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
http://kathleenbrugger.blogspot.com/
User avatar
KathleenBrugger
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:23 pm

beginnersmind wrote:Don't need to Google, I am well aware of China's practices of Tai Chi, just as I am well aware of Japan's general practice of Rajio Taiso before work (wife is originally from Japan). I am also well aware of how old the practices are in both the east and west as I have quite a few books on all that has been discussed. I only mentioned the three of the west that I am aware of, because these are self healing modalities (though not particularly spiritual). I ain't trying to argue with ya

:D I'm not trying to argue either, I just think its an interesting difference between western and eastern culture. I'd never asked that question before--did Christian monks have a sacred movement? It's made me ask some interesting questions (to myself!) about Christian attitudes towards the body.
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
http://kathleenbrugger.blogspot.com/
User avatar
KathleenBrugger
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:47 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
smiileyjen101 wrote:To excuse the 'superiority' & unfounded 'rights' of a person energising arrogance, as if it is ignorance (or pity not empathy, or bigotry not ignorant discrimination, or fear over a fright)- keeps them in the dark as to the difference. For me it would be like if say KB everyone pandered to you as 'shy', excused you and did not leave room for you to grow into who you really are - you would not have grown in awareness and in outer expression to be the more honest and wise and loving to self and others person that you are now.

I don't see it so much as 'excusing it' Jen, as much as simply understanding that many of us (myself for sure) have been there before (as the arrogant/ignorant) and sometimes, I still do, and it merely comes from a limited perspective of who you believe you are. Not that there is a 'wrong belief' (as whatever we believe ourselves to be, is ultimately who we are), but the more limited your perspective, the more limited your reality that you create and the less love you approach life with. That's what I call ignorance. Hence, the way I see it " "forgive them for they know not what they do" is not an implication that it's ok to abuse or be a bigot because you don't know any better. No, not at all. In my opinion, this does not at all mean we must condone abuse or bigotry, but it does mean that limited perspectives (which is really what bigotry is) stem from the ego, which we all have at one point or another and we can recognize this behavior merely as a form of ignorance stemming from the belief in separation.

It's not excusing someone for being ignorant or limited, (Meaning, we don't sit by and allow abusers and bigots to abuse and discriminate against us as we can absolutely put our foot down at our abusers as an act of love to them or put our foot down to bigotry or discrimination of course. We're not robots. We have that free will of course.) However, we can't run around saving the entire world from its limited views. The Universe and its expressions need to awaken on their own when they are ready. We can only do so much from our part of it.

I appreciate the passion that inspired your post, jen, and yet I'm still here with E2B, that ignorance is the fundamental issue. Perhaps it's that I (and I think E2B) are talking about ignorance on a different level--not people's ignorance of facts but ignorance of who they are and the fundamental unity of all things. It's this ignorance that causes someone to become a bigot, or exploit the Earth. I hear your argument that bigotry should be called out as the hateful attitude that it is, and I'll let Martin Luther King speak to that. This is a passage from my book, from the Mechanics of Compassion chapter:

Martin Luther King, Jr. embodied the principles of compassion outlined above. In his account of the Montgomery bus boycott, Striding Towards Freedom, he wrote about his thoughts the night his house was bombed. He had compassion for the white people involved because he realized that they had been taught to think that black people were inferior, and thus they were innocent by reason of insanity:

MLK, Jr, wrote:
I tried to put myself in the place of the police commissioners. I said to myself these are not bad men. They are misguided. They have fine reputations in the community. In their dealings with white people they are respectful and gentlemanly. They probably think they are right in their methods of dealing with Negroes. They say the things they say about us and treat us as they do because they have been taught these things. From the cradle to the grave, it is instilled in them that the Negro is inferior. Their parents probably taught them that; the schools they attended taught them that; the books they read, even their churches and ministers, often taught them that; and above all the very concept of segregation teaches them that. The whole cultural tradition under which they have grown—a tradition blighted with more than 250 years of slavery and more than 90 years of segregation—teaches them that Negroes do not deserve certain things. So these men are merely the children of their culture. When they seek to preserve segregation they are seeking to preserve only what their local folkways have taught them was right.


Dr. King was a powerful leader because of his compassion—he motivated millions of people to confront our country’s legacy of hatred and bigotry with peaceful, non-violent action, and as a result brought about significant progress in civil rights.

I would add in this context Dr. King's success is directly related to this recognition that it was ignorance, not arrogance, that was at the root of the problem.
We are ALL Innocent by Reason of Insanity
http://kathleenbrugger.blogspot.com/
User avatar
KathleenBrugger
 
Posts: 604
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:18 pm

Re: Healing/Spirituality and the flow of Being

Postby smiileyjen101 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:59 am

Can anyone think of a Western body movement system that is linked to spiritual practice that is older than 100 years?

Bowing in submission to what is and praying?

I think the difference is maybe folks are looking for what is culturally 'okay' and 'approved/formalised', in the linking of the physical and the spiritual, rather than what is authentically okay when one is in the fullness of authenticity. My point about dancing is that across all cultures people dance, children dance authentically. It does have immense holistic physical, mental, emotional and spiritual benefits to be authentic, to move in harmony with what is, be that in work, in play, in dance, in life in general.

That video I posted earlier of the Ni Vanuatu dancing as the music took them - that's authentically okay, more 'polished' 'polite' 'reserved' cultures might find it naive, unsophisticated - but it is without doubt authentically being freely with what is in this moment. It just hasn't been 'formalised' do it this way, at this time, in this company, or any other conditioning. It often happens spontaneously many times a day, whether one is in harmony with another person, nature, the sea, the food being gathered, prepared, cooked and eaten.

The Scottish Ceilidh and many other, what is quaintly known as 'folk' customs / dancing / authenticity in gratitude & generosity, sharing and rejoicing, was also physically energetic sharing - and banned by those who sought to dominate those cultures and 'formalise' when and where and how one could dance, sing, share, rejoice and give homage to the elements and all upon the earth. So, yes 'pagan' and indigenous cultures did have it. We have it in our hearts still.

How many of us dance with abandon in the privacy of empty lounge rooms?

I dance and I do tai chi - the energy awareness, the benefits to mind, body, spirit are the same.

Dancing just usually has additional beat, melody & harmony lines added.

I think it's kind of silly that if a group of us go to a park and do Tai Chi, those looking on think we're being more 'spiritual' than if we all go to the same park and dance with gay abandon. :wink:
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
User avatar
smiileyjen101
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:44 am

Previous

Return to Pain and Suffering

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron