Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby dijmart » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:56 am

I agree Onceler. I actually don't enjoy posting here any longer, because of this and I have been gone for a month not posting, until yesterday when I got a PM. Don't know what I'll do from here on out? Not sure really.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Manyana » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:17 am

Eckhart writes in A New Earth p.126-7:
As the new consciousness emerges, some people will feel called upon to form groups that reflect the enlightened consciousness..........Even if the members that make up those groups are not totally free of ego yet, there will be enough awareness in them to recognize the ego in themselves or in others as soon as it appears. However, constant alertness is required since the ego will try to take over and reassert itself in any way it can. Dissolving the human ego by bringing it into the light of awareness ----this will be one of the main purposes of these groups


I think the forum can be seen as one of these groups. So how do we help each other dissolve our egos in a way that is effective and doesn't cause endless further egoic reactions?
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Onceler » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:31 am

dijmart wrote:I agree Onceler. I actually don't enjoy posting here any longer, because of this and I have been gone for a month not posting, until yesterday when I got a PM. Don't know what I'll do from here on out? Not sure really.


I know what you mean. I just can't get excited about discussing spirituality the way I once did. Don't seem to have the stamina for it. I hope you stick around. You add life to the forum....at least visit frequently.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Onceler » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:33 am

Manyana wrote:Eckhart writes in A New Earth p.126-7:
As the new consciousness emerges, some people will feel called upon to form groups that reflect the enlightened consciousness..........Even if the members that make up those groups are not totally free of ego yet, there will be enough awareness in them to recognize the ego in themselves or in others as soon as it appears. However, constant alertness is required since the ego will try to take over and reassert itself in any way it can. Dissolving the human ego by bringing it into the light of awareness ----this will be one of the main purposes of these groups


I think the forum can be seen as one of these groups. So how do we help each other dissolve our egos in a way that is effective and doesn't cause endless further egoic reactions?



Good point, Manyana, I think it is one of these groups.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:59 am

Manyana wrote:Eckhart writes in A New Earth p.126-7:
As the new consciousness emerges, some people will feel called upon to form groups that reflect the enlightened consciousness..........Even if the members that make up those groups are not totally free of ego yet, there will be enough awareness in them to recognize the ego in themselves or in others as soon as it appears. However, constant alertness is required since the ego will try to take over and reassert itself in any way it can. Dissolving the human ego by bringing it into the light of awareness ----this will be one of the main purposes of these groups


I think the forum can be seen as one of these groups. So how do we help each other dissolve our egos in a way that is effective and doesn't cause endless further egoic reactions?


A good example of why I no longer resonate with everything Eckhart says, at least in the way I used to.

You don't need to dissolve your ego completely. It's actually impossible I'd say to do so while still operating through a human body/mind. The ego is not something that is wrong or something to be made an enemy of nor is it an actual entity separate from what you already are. Instead, the ego is merely YOU (Being) experiencing as a human body/mind believing that you are only this body/mind and therefore believing everything you think. The ego (which is merely just a limited perspective) can be seen for what it is (a limited perspective) the more you open up to life and embrace that which you used to fear including other perspectives outside of your own. When you embrace that which you used to fear, including perspectives outside of your own, you can start to see that you are not as limited as you believed and that you are not merely just this body mind, but you are free flowing Pure Awareness itself with human thought merely being one potential avenue.

Watching your reactions to others when you relate has been the greatest tool for me. Use the forum to your advantage by seeing how other perspectives and others experiences make you feel about yourself. If you have a hard time accepting perspectives outside of your own, then likely, it's a hidden belief you have unconsciously that is preventing you from embracing something that is different than you. You ultimately will be whatever you perceive yourself to be via thought and belief. When you start to accept that (as Jen says) you are not the CEO of the universe, but merely one perspective of the Universe, you start to notice other things you never knew existed (which were always there, but you were too closed to see it) and it's like life begins again. Awareness seems to grow, but it's more that the narrow walls of your perspective are breaking down to include a wider perspective of Being.

It's like having a bias towards a movie for your whole life and refusing to see it because of what you believed about the movie. Until one day, you are forced to see the movie and you realize what an incredible movie it actually is. Yet, all this time, you limited yourself from seeing it because of biased beliefs about the movie. This is awakening. This is dissolving the ego. There is nothing separate that is actually dissolving. It's just a greater perspective on life and closer to Love.

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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Onceler » Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:44 pm

I agree, E2b, I don't believe ego or thinking is a problem. It's our investment in and perspective about them that is the problem. To me they just seem like parallel processes, not the whole picture....just one part of the program. If you believe that's all there is, then it's a problem. If you see yourself as yourself and over time this self becomes another process....your main awareness, then thinking and ego are just programs running in the background that you can choose to pay attention to or not. I don't have a real clear view of this, but it's emerging and hopefully makes some sense to somebody. Or not :wink:
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Rob X » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:34 pm

I think that what's going on here highlights the fact that different teachings throw up different notions of how we might understand and deal with ego.

1. Some teachers seem to suggest that ego (often defined as the 'me' sense) is undesirable or even evil - it is something that needs to be dissolved, eliminated or overcome.

2. Other teachings see ego as natural a phenomenon as the shifting of the tides or the falling of leaves. It's simply empty phenomena doing its thing. In this approach ego doesn't have to be dissolved it simply needs to be recognised as ultimately not what you are. In this understanding, ego refers to 'ego identification', it's the identification that's the issue not the ego (as in the 'me' sense.)

If you are of the first persuasion then any expression of personality; opinion, preference, passion etc. might be deemed as something to eliminate or overcome. Of course the problem with this outlook is that it is self refuting - the very desire to overcome ego is by its own definition, ego driven.

If you are of the second camp then these things can be allowed to be expressed with the knowledge that they are insubstantial (functional) phenomena in the play of the greater scheme.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Onceler » Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:49 pm

Rob X wrote:I think that what's going on here highlights the fact that different teachings throw up different notions of how we might understand and deal with ego.

1. Some teachers seem to suggest that ego (often defined as the 'me' sense) is undesirable or even evil - it is something that needs to be dissolved, eliminated or overcome.

2. Other teachings see ego as natural a phenomenon as the shifting of the tides or the falling of leaves. It's simply empty phenomena doing its thing. In this approach ego doesn't have to be dissolved it simply needs to be recognised as ultimately not what you are. In this understanding, ego refers to 'ego identification', it's the identification that's the issue not the ego (as in the 'me' sense.)

If you are of the first persuasion then any expression of personality; opinion, preference, passion etc. might be deemed as something to eliminate or overcome. Of course the problem with this outlook is that it is self refuting - the very desire to overcome ego is by its own definition, ego driven.


If you are of the second camp then these things can be allowed to be expressed with the knowledge that they are insubstantial (functional) phenomena in the play of the greater scheme.


What does no teachings say? Your perception of life? I say plough the teachings under the soil and in the spring their stink will fertalize new growth, new perception.....something real and tangible.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:28 pm

One might ask, what would be the point of the whole of human existence without the unique contribution of the ego perspective? Is it reasonable to presume that the ego is an accident? If not what then is its purpose?

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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Rob X » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:34 pm

Yes, I agree with you both. I don't care much for this ego talk. If someone says to me 'that's just your ego' my response is a kind of quizzical 'so what?'. They may as well be saying 'that's your arm moving'. Of course it is. My arm moves, my ego functions, I even blink when someone startles me. So what?. :D

For me this has nothing to do with the mind-body matrix having drives, inclinations, passions, opinions etc., the issue is solely about misidentification.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:45 pm

Yeah, I don't even know if I'd say misidentification although I understand what Rob means there. I'd merely say that it's about expansion into the whole. We start off (as adolescents) with the smallest specks of Awareness through our tiny limited view. The expansion of that view is the lessening of the ego perspective as we start to see that we can be anything we believe ourselves to be. If we believe ourselves to be merely a body/mind (the true ego perspective), then that will ultimately be true for us. Or we can expand and see that we are Being itself and we are also a Body/mind. We can narrow our focus at any time and choose to be more limited or we can expand that focus at any time by allowing and embracing beyond our beliefs and then we become more unlimited. So, I like the term expansion.

Yet, its purpose as I see it is clearly on design as the 'veil' we come into this life with. You can't grow/evolve/expand if you have all of the answers at the time of incarnation. The ego serves a very important intended purpose of limiting us intentionally. Which is why it's so silly how Eckhart Tolle's teachings can be taken at face value by some in that we really do need to 'get rid of' the ego, not realizing that this is impossible because getting rid of the ego completely would likely equate to merging back into Source Awareness which is impossible as long as an individual perspective still exists. Yes, we are the whole, but we are also perspectives. As long as that perspective exists whether in human body or another dimension of Awareness, exists the ego perspective. It's just a matter of how strong (how limited) the ego perspective is for you I'd say.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby KathleenBrugger » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:05 pm

I am also in agreement that getting rid of the ego is a mistaken concept. I see it this way: we have a physical body to operate in this universe of physicality, and we have a psychological body (the ego) as well. The ego allows us to interact with each other in the realm of mind, the realm of abstractions and concepts, which is a very interesting place. That's what we do here on this forum, for example.

Imo, the entire universe is the One awakening into Its true identity, and evolution is the story of that awakening, beginning at the moment of almost complete unconsciousness at the Big Bang (or whatever). The development of ego is a major step in the universe-awakening process. First creatures have to become aware of themselves, this is a prerequisite to awakening to the truth that there is only One. This experience of being human and having an ego, of getting these first glimpses of Unity, is an amazing experience to be savored. The universe exists for just such experiences.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby Enlightened2B » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:35 pm

Actually Kathleen, your post brings us back to the closest we've been in a LONG time to the actual video of the thread. yay! :lol:

Since you mentioned evolution, that's what Tom Campbell talks about in the video a bit. But, not so much physical evolution (although he acknowledges that), but evolution in the sense that everything in existence evolves in a certain way to align with its nature.

Life and death are inherent in the Universe at every level. The reason being so that nothing is permanent other than Being itself. Even the season changes represents life and death. Even particles come and go as do cells on a regular basis. The Universe was designed the way it is with the intent to evolve for specific purposes according to Nanci Danison. We might sit here and question why seasons change the way they do. Seasons change the way they do because that its nature to do so. Everything fractally is a cyclical pattern of life and death within the Universe. From the smallest level of a particle to fractally greater levels such as the Universe itself. Think of the Big Bang. Contraction/Expansion. The Universe expands outward (Life) and eventually will contract (Death) and then, the same process will happen again. It's a massive, massive hologram.

So, evolution on a physical scale is much in line with the evolution of the soul perspective in that Ego is contraction and limitation while Awareness itself is expansion and free flowing and unlimited. Everything evolves towards limitlessness (because our nature IS limitlessness and as a result, our nature is to evolve its way back home, so to speak) and expansion on every level before it contracts. Then your body dies. You go to another level of much greater expanded Awareness and the cycle begins again either at another level of Awareness, or back into the physical plane into another body or object.

So, the ego has an IMMENSELY important purpose here. Without it, there would be no expansion/contraction.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:16 am

Manyana wrote:
Eckhart writes in A New Earth p.126-7:
As the new consciousness emerges, some people will feel called upon to form groups that reflect the enlightened consciousness..........Even if the members that make up those groups are not totally free of ego yet, there will be enough awareness in them to recognize the ego in themselves or in others as soon as it appears. However, constant alertness is required since the ego will try to take over and reassert itself in any way it can. Dissolving the human ego by bringing it into the light of awareness ----this will be one of the main purposes of these groups


I think the forum can be seen as one of these groups. So how do we help each other dissolve our egos in a way that is effective and doesn't cause endless further egoic reactions?


Great contribution Manyana - my answer would be in the same vein that you've raised and shared this from your awareness - with love and compassion.

While I agree with the notion that the ego is ... just is.. and does just arise... and possibly instead of 'this is just your ego' responses, a loving, compassionate response might be ... are you aware of the elements of ego in this? That leaves the question open, rather than dictating a position, which of course can only be egoic as well. Hence we spin in those energies, rather than in love and compassion.

I have a 'thing' on my desk at the moment - a reminder if you will - it says 'The love that builds success, is altruistic (that is not self serving), it is honest, it is generous and it is compassionate.'

It resonates for me, as does love being the equilibrium of the energies of gratitude & generosity. Ego is not grateful and nor is it generous, ego is self serving, it is often tricking self and others into believing a thing that is not true, and so compassion has no bed upon which to build. So between these two pointers I can notice when I am out of balance. I cannot however judge if others are in balance in their projections and interpretations of what is loving and compassionate - I don't have their awareness, capacity or willingness, and therefore I can only ask, ask to understand their perspective. Whether and what they answer, can also be met with either ego or love, but only my response is really my business.
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Re: Tom Campbell-Holographic Evolution

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:19 am

Rob x said: I don't care much for this ego talk. If someone says to me 'that's just your ego' my response is a kind of quizzical 'so what?'. They may as well be saying 'that's your arm moving'. Of course it is. My arm moves, my ego functions, I even blink when someone startles me. So what?. :D


:D :D :D
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