Is it really an illusion

Talk about anything Tolle-related here.

Is it really an illusion

Postby jongibirdi1974 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:39 am

Many people particularly the so called enlightened tell us that time is an illusion..well im sure my boss will not accept that..the bus wont wait for me because i say that. They say its all an illusion but many have millions in the bank and all the comforts it can buy..as far as im.concerned..in my experience its not an illusion at all. If i argue with the wrong person on the street im going to end up getting hurt. If i dont get to work on time ill be fired..and if i dont pay my bills ill be homeless very soon..so thats why for me its real
jongibirdi1974
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:49 am

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby beginnersmind » Sat Mar 21, 2015 10:52 pm

Often times this arises out of spiritual bypassing in the guise of enlightenment
beginnersmind
 
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:00 pm

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:59 am

The physical world is an illusion in the sense that there is anything actually solid about it. There is far more space than there is actual solid particles - if there is any such thing as a particle at all. (Certainly quantum physics suggests there is nothing but vibrating energy.) Same with time. There is only this now moment through which life conditions flow. That said, the physical world's fundamental illusory nature is irrelevant to our experience of it.

It's kind of like going to a horror movie and getting the bajesus scared out of you. The movie was just an illusion of light and sound. The experience however, of fear and trepidation, was quite real. What makes it tolerable is that underlying the movie experience we know it is just a movie, so we can enjoy the emotional ride.

Something like that knowing can be attained with regards to our physical life experience. To the degree we can hold our perception of this physical life as a temporary exploratory adventure within a far greater life and being, we can more tolerate, and even enjoy, the emotional ride that is endemic to it. But unlike a movie that we just watch, life here is more like participation circus. It is a dance where other members of the cast interact to make it more interesting and challenging.

So don't be late for work unless you want to dance an unpleasant rumba with the boss. Remember it's all about experience - the only thing that is real.

WW
User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6308
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby monsta2005 » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:51 pm

This is one of the answers to life. Im no expert on this matter, but my spiritual journey has lead me to this- this is not my answer, but the answers provided in the bhagvad gita- the words of god- the term would be 'maya'. Absolutely everything 'you think you are experiencing is an illusion'. . How can I conclude this? Because you typed this. And this includes 'me' who types this.

A basic example:

What are you reading here/what am I typing here?
Words, letters, sentences. When put together they have meaning. Why? Who gave these words meaning? The dictionary, societal conditioning, school?
In reality these are 'learned words' as it is put in the bhagvad gita, by krishna. Words which in reality have have no inherent meaning- it is all maya, or illusion. Somebody calls you a swear word....you have 'learned' such a word is 'hurtful' 'thus' you are offended.
These are black shapes, sounds which come out of peoples mouths. Even saying these are black shapes is an illusion! These 'things' you are reading-they just are. As with everything else. It just is.

The absolute biggest illusion is that of you[/b[b]]/me!!! The false ego/mind as ET and others put it- you are not your mind.
monsta2005
 
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:07 pm

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby randomguy » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:55 am

Is there observation of experience? Is there observation of time?
What is seeing this?
Is the observation of time bound by time? How can the observation of time occur in time? Is there not a timeless nature to you?
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
randomguy
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby Onceler » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:46 pm

It's all very, very real. Take anyone who tells you differently to the edge of a cliff and ask them, politely, why they don't just jump into the illusion?
Be present, be pleasant.
User avatar
Onceler
 
Posts: 2203
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:35 am
Location: My house

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby dijmart » Sat Jul 25, 2015 3:42 pm

Onceler wrote:It's all very, very real. Take anyone who tells you differently to the edge of a cliff and ask them, politely, why they don't just jump into the illusion?


The illusion or unreality seems to be when one thinks the world exists in division, seperateness...I'm a " me" and you are "others". Therefore, I'm a " person" of my own free accord and you are someone to be used or cherished depending on my thoughts of you. What my thinking mind says about you, as other. The mind creates a world of illusions with the play of thoughts believed.

However, when you see the world as the Self, from the Self, of the Self, as there is nothing but the Self. Then, the theory of you, me and others collapses. Then, the world is as real as the Self, consciousness. Then the play of Maya is just that, a play, but all is one. When you no longer believe every thought, feeling, emotion that arises, then you have real freedom. Life is living through you, not the other way around. Although it may seem that way, hence the great illusion of maya.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2079
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby ashley72 » Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:15 pm

monsta2005 wrote:This is one of the answers to life. Im no expert on this matter, but my spiritual journey has lead me to this- this is not my answer, but the answers provided in the bhagvad gita- the words of god- the term would be 'maya'. Absolutely everything 'you think you are experiencing is an illusion'. . How can I conclude this? Because you typed this. And this includes 'me' who types this.

A basic example:

What are you reading here/what am I typing here?
Words, letters, sentences. When put together they have meaning. Why? Who gave these words meaning? The dictionary, societal conditioning, school?
In reality these are 'learned words' as it is put in the bhagvad gita, by krishna. Words which in reality have have no inherent meaning- it is all maya, or illusion. Somebody calls you a swear word....you have 'learned' such a word is 'hurtful' 'thus' you are offended.
These are black shapes, sounds which come out of peoples mouths. Even saying these are black shapes is an illusion! These 'things' you are reading-they just are. As with everything else. It just is.

The absolute biggest illusion is that of you[/b[b]]/me!!! The false ego/mind as ET and others put it- you are not your mind.


"Meaning of things" is nothing more than mapping from primary domain to target domain. The primary domain for humans is visual space whichs is mapped via the visual cortex.

Our thoughts are metaphoric in nature. To describe our very state of mind we use terms such as "narrow minded" , "broad minded", "open minded", "Absent minded" which are directly mapped from the way we navigate our visual space. Our mind is an abstract concept, so we use our visual space which is something direct or concrete to us and translate or map onto our abstract concept of mind.

Another interesting thing you may not heard about yet. Google has been working out how to classify, train, map all texts or words into vector space (numbers). The algorithm is called word2vector. What they do is get big data sets from Wikipedia and basically map all the words into a vector space. Words that are closely related will be close in distance on the the vector space.

For example "queen" is to "women"... As "king" is to ? The missing word would be able to be predicted by the algorithm down to a small list of possibilities based purely on the nearest neighbors (cosine distance) in the vector space.

So even something as complex as human language can be translated or mapped into mere numbers that can be understood and computed by a machine.

The illusion is simple this....that humans believe that somehow their minds are more sophisticated than mere machines, when in reality they are not.

Reference https://code.google.com/p/word2vec/
User avatar
ashley72
 
Posts: 2533
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:24 am

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby Mystic » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:27 am

Data(photons of light, sound waves, etc.) from the real world interacts with the physical senses, enters the brain, and the brain makes an image from the information, so the body can navigate terrain and survive. I recall reading that there is a delay of about a tenth of a second in the brain. So what is perceived is a facsimile of the real world, not the actual world itself.

What is consciousness?

http://www.peterrussell.com/SP/PrimConsc.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d4ugppcRUE
User avatar
Mystic
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:29 am

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby randomguy » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:49 pm

Oncelor wrote:It's all very, very real. Take anyone who tells you differently to the edge of a cliff and ask them, politely, why they don't just jump into the illusion?

Ha ha. I expect very few takers.

Step off that cliff and how do those thoughts of bills and work look?

I read an article online a while back that claimed 100% of Golden Gate Bridge suicide jump survivers inverviewed realized on the way down that they didn't have to jump. They saw their problems differently.

Perspective.

Has one's true nature changed before and after the jump? Isn't the underlying awareness the same as it has been all throughout life? To what does the changing world appear?

There's this famous quote of course, "The world is illusory; Brahman alone is real; Brahman is the world." - Ramana Maharshi. What does this describe but a shifting perspective. It's a pattern of realization, a description of a journey of self discovery. Of course the world can be perceived as illusory. It's only a trick of mind to entertain an objective truth to the matter.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho
randomguy
 
Posts: 923
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:42 pm

Just had this discussion with a NDE group I'm part of on facebook with people who have directly experienced this first hand, and have learned and confirmed for me some fascinating information. The term illusion is entirely dependent contextually on what dimension/frequency is being viewed from.

The term 'illusory' or 'maya', began in the ancient scriptures such as the Upanishads and even the bible to some degree, and such from people who likely had deep, profound non-physical experiences through meditation or OBE's or even NDE's. It was also present in other teachings as well. Yet, it was translated into ancient texts and later down the line, interpreted by many others and has become the focal point of Advaita Vedanta teachings and later interpreted even more so by Westerner's who've often grossly mis-interpreted that into what we have now have, in Neo-Advaita teachings as such that 'the world is illusory' or the 'world is not real'.

As Onceler says, the world most certainly is NOT illusory within a certain context and the world is also VERY illusory within a certain context. However, that the world is NOT illusory, is coming from the limited perspective from this physical dimension which can only experience one thing at a time in an apparent world of separation and time and space. From my view, everything is quite real. Yet, on a higher frequency scale, dimensions higher, each level below is likely more and more illusory going up the ladder vibrationally, possibly infinitely. From the perspective of a potential One Source (if there is One Source), everything might be a complete illusion. But, who's to know that?

And how many have actually experienced that higher dimension to know that reality is illusory? Unless you've had profound meditative experiences, OBE's, NDE's, etc, to know this directly would be impossible. Of course, Quantum Physics and science is on the right path as well as we saw from the videos that WW posted in the other thread.

The only thing we can know directly right now is that our thoughts create an illusory world for us. That much is pretty clear. It once again is very real for us, until we step out of thinking and connect with a higher place of presence. Our thoughts create our realities greatly and the realities we experience in our mind are quite illusory even on the physical level which CAN be seen without any kind of deeper experience as illusory just by learning to observe.

Yet, just look at Western Idealism Philosophy which borders on solipsism and you can see the GROSS mis-understanding and mis-interpretation of the term 'illusion'.
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby viking55803 » Fri Sep 04, 2015 9:13 pm

As Einstein once said, "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Our sense perceptions are so very limited - even our ability to see light is limited to a very narrow range of frequencies. Even Plato's allegory of the cave teaches the same lesson. I sometimes hear people talking about "thinking outside the box" but we are all inside a box when it comes to thinking - a box of our own thoughts, experience and knowledge. But as Tolle points out, our direct awareness of consciousness is the transcendent, timeless, spiritual dimension. In that sense, it is only our awareness itself that is "real" - all else is form.

But we all have to eat, drink and sleep - so the "illusion" is the space we occupy.
User avatar
viking55803
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:38 pm
Location: Duluth, Minnesota

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby DavidB » Sun Sep 06, 2015 5:01 pm

Time is an illusion yes.

There is no moment apart from the present moment. It has always been and always will be the present. The present moment is all there is. The moment it is now is the moment it has always been and always will be. The present is eternal.

The illusion of time comes about through the perception of change. Everything is always in a state of flux. It is this flux that gives the impression of momentum, or flow.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby Mystic » Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:48 pm

I remember a lucid dream where I experienced what felt like something very real. Everything was in perfect focus and crystal clear. I could feel gravity, the wind, and the sunlight. The sky was blue. Then, in the dream, I discovered a sense of buoyancy whereby I was able to fly and it felt very real, more real than this world of experience that we share. It was amazing to be able to fly. Perhaps there are layers or levels of reality that are somehow "more real" than others ...not sure.

Perhaps this reality is similar to a collectively shared dream of many minds, and in that sense it is a limited playground for souls to learn necessary things until they can graduate to other levels of the totality of the infinite mindscape...
User avatar
Mystic
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2015 10:29 am

Re: Is it really an illusion

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:48 pm

Mystic wrote:Perhaps this reality is similar to a collectively shared dream of many minds, and in that sense it is a limited playground for souls to learn necessary things until they can graduate to other levels of the totality of the infinite mindscape...

I don't think it's a matter of graduation to other levels as those levels are more likely our home. It's more of a creative sojourn into this unique reality for the experiential possibilities it offers. That said, our experience here enhances the totality of all awareness, individualized and shared.

WW
User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6308
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Next

Return to General Eckhart Tolle Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron