I Am Enlightened - Open Hearted Sincerity

[snowheight]

I find it difficult to understand your way of expressing. I'm enjoying the way I'm exploring my own development so will continue as I am. That's not a comment on the validity of your way for you, just that I have my own, which I love. Adopting someone else's because they are of the opinion it would be beneficial is certainly something I would entertain, but, in this case it doesn't resonate with me.

It's interesting how we feel we know how to help other people with their experience. As if our way is the right way. That they need to bring their experience into alignment with ours. It's a joke!

By your own logic, If this is a joke for you, then that's what it is, . But I wouldn't necessarily characterize it as an offer to help, and the potential interest was relevant to your experience only in so far as it applied to your experience of corresponding here on the forum.

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In case anyone else is interested in this idea that Jack isn't interested in I'll be glad to spell it out for you ... as I mentioned to him, I've noticed this happening in the past in my own thought process: ".. hmmm ... who is it that's seeking validation, and of what?". Isn't there a very very obvious point of self-reflection available there? Anyone? Anyone?

[Enlightened2B]

who is it that's seeking validation, and of what?".

Simple. The one who is seeking is the unique perspective of Self expressing itself as Jack while the one who asks is the unique perspective of Self expressing itself as Snowheight while the one who is writing this is the unique perspective of Self expressing itself as E2B. All three share the same nature at the core as Being, being itself, via three distinct, unique expressions of life, hence our conversations. As to how much each expression believes itself to be.....merely that unique expression and nothing more, is entirely up to the subjective experience of that unique expression and how much it is believing its own thought processes.

Not sure if that's what you're asking here though. Just my own little contribution for whatever it's worth

[Onceler]

I find it difficult to understand your way of expressing. I'm enjoying the way I'm exploring my own development so will continue as I am. That's not a comment on the validity of your way for you, just that I have my own, which I love. Adopting someone else's because they are of the opinion it would be beneficial is certainly something I would entertain, but, in this case it doesn't resonate with me.

It's interesting how we feel we know how to help other people with their experience. As if our way is the right way. That they need to bring their experience into alignment with ours. It's a joke!

By your own logic, If this is a joke for you, then that's what it is, . But I wouldn't necessarily characterize it as an offer to help, and the potential interest was relevant to your experience only in so far as it applied to your experience of corresponding here on the forum.

====

In case anyone else is interested in this idea that Jack isn't interested in I'll be glad to spell it out for you ... as I mentioned to him, I've noticed this happening in the past in my own thought process: ".. hmmm ... who is it that's seeking validation, and of what?". Isn't there a very very obvious point of self-reflection available there? Anyone? Anyone?

Um.....I thought I took a stab at it.

[snowheight]

I agree with you in many respects.....I would add a pre-validation state, however....we are learning to articulate our spiritual/psychological experiences in order to have them validated. And, as in my case many times, the articulation changes the experience or belief, as we write it. Then, if you add the effect of the responses of others into the mix, you have a shaping, pruning, or solidifying effect on your experience. It can be a rock tumbler, or cement. It's all in flux, which is the beauty of the forum and life.

Yes, in the expression's we articulate and just the act of articulation itself always has value. If we're open to what others offer us in response to the articulation then there's a process of informing that happens.

[snowheight]

Um.....I thought I took a stab at it.

Yes, great stab too! ... was waiting for Jack's response.

[snowheight]

who is it that's seeking validation, and of what?".

Simple. The one who is seeking is the unique perspective of Self expressing itself as Jack while the one who asks is the unique perspective of Self expressing itself as Snowheight while the one who is writing this is the unique perspective of Self expressing itself as E2B. All three share the same nature at the core as Being, being itself, via three distinct, unique expressions of life, hence our conversations. As to how much each expression believes itself to be.....merely that unique expression and nothing more, is entirely up to the subjective experience of that unique expression and how much it is believing its own thought processes.

Not sure if that's what you're asking here though. Just my own little contribution for whatever it's worth

You're describing the correspondence from the outside in, and that's certainly a facet of what's unfolding, but what I was referring to specifically in that quoted fragment was an internal dialog.

That aspect of self-inquiry which recognizes the false as false results in definitive statements: for example "I am not my gender, I am not my age... " etc.

The felt and shared sense of oneness with being is a great pointer for sure, but there is another aspect of the inquiry that ultimately escapes direct expression with ideas. That's why there is the resort to the indirect expressions ... the pointing. This is where the notion of the subjectivity of perception and the uniqueness of expression become relevant, because noone can reach this facet of the inquiry for anyone else. There is no definitive, collective, final answer to "who am I?", and the question will be asked for as long as there are peeps to ask it.

[Enlightened2B]

You're describing the correspondence from the outside in, and that's certainly a facet of what's unfolding, but what I was referring to specifically in that quoted fragment was an internal dialog.

That aspect of self-inquiry which recognizes the false as false results in definitive statements: for example "I am not my gender, I am not my age... " etc.

The felt and shared sense of oneness with being is a great pointer for sure, but there is another aspect of the inquiry that ultimately escapes direct expression with ideas. That's why there is the resort to the indirect expressions ... the pointing. This is where the notion of the subjectivity of perception and the uniqueness of expression become relevant, because noone can reach this facet of the inquiry for anyone else. There is no definitive, collective, final answer to "who am I?", and the question will be asked for as long as there are peeps to ask it.

I'd agree that there is no definitive answer to 'who am I'. I find the 'who am I' inquiry to no longer be overly helpful in my own experience anyway. Instead, I've chosen to utilize my everyday experience and observe my own reactions to everyday situations, as there are relationships everywhere, in every second, and I can see when I am resisting or fighting to control a situation and I love myself enough to not beat myself up anymore over this when my perspective is less narrow.

The observation of thoughts/emotions/feelings/sensations has allowed me to see that I am not merely just one of these which is where Eckhart's teachings were life changing for me.

Yet, who I am as you and I discuss here, is just another definition or label of course. Granted, we do need concepts to communicate with each other here. So, Being is the closest I can come to even nipping that, which I am, or perhaps, I can merely just say that.....I AM. And what it is that I AM, can change in any moment by what I perceive myself to be via my own beliefs. Ultimately, definitions and concepts aside, I merely.....just AM. AMness. Sometimes, my perspective is mistaken (as I was with one of your earlier posts if you remember), and due to a previous bias, I will perceive in a certain way which merely is my own limited perspective based on my own experiences/conditioning/biases, while, other times, it's much more encompassing and embracing and less limited and I gain a greater picture on reality. It's just Awareness. Whether my own perspective within Awareness, can be expanded to a less limited perspective, is merely within my own capacity, to understand, embrace and love, that which I am not familiar with. When I am able to embrace the larger perspective, I am more aligned with Love itself. At times I can (more so recently) and at times I still can't.

I'm off track now. Sorry. Anyway, who am I? I AM that I AM as cliche as that is. And what 'that' is, is entirely up to whatever I perceive myself to be. Am I just a body/mind? Or am I reality itself? I'm both. I am a body/mind and I am reality. Ultimately, neither right/wrong. Just more limited, or less limited.

Just my take.

[snowheight]

Thanks for the reply E2B.

[NateDeezy]

Normally I'm a pretty anxious person, fearful, low energy, depressed. But when I experienced enlightenment years ago, which I've since lost. I felt pure bliss. Any ancients was just a feeling on the surface bubbling up, not something that grips me deep down. I was able to observe it and watch it pass. I was no longer afraid in public. I felt pure bliss. Is this your experience? Like is there anything you're afraid to do now in teems of anything that can't harm you?

[Onceler]

Normally I'm a pretty anxious person, fearful, low energy, depressed. But when I experienced enlightenment years ago, which I've since lost. I felt pure bliss. Any ancients was just a feeling on the surface bubbling up, not something that grips me deep down. I was able to observe it and watch it pass. I was no longer afraid in public. I felt pure bliss. Is this your experience? Like is there anything you're afraid to do now in teems of anything that can't harm you?

Through inquiry and deep internal looking, I believe it's possible to find the you that can't be harmed....just you, the deepest nadir of you, there's nothing deeper, from which all awareness and sensation emanates. I don't feel this fearlessness every moment, but it informs my living more and more. When I feel harm, confusion, anxiety, I can return to this bare, essential me and experience it. It's reassuring that this self is eternal and can't be harmed. There is also no need to improve upon it. I can then return to my life and invest in it fully from the inside out. The movements from the internal to external become more natural I suppose.

[Sighclone]

"Seeking validation..." Wow. Great question. Regardless of the "identity" of the seeker (self or a manifestation of Self, etc.), why would one seek validation? My friend Gary Weber has been "checked out" by two Zen Masters and "validated" by them. Don't get me wrong here ... I think the experience of awakening is large enough to require some kind of validation from somebody. My big kensho seven years ago sent me scrambling to the web and this forum and kiki, who turned out to have an almost identical background in spiritual seeking. And he 'validated' what happened to me; others continue to share similar experiences. It's a big big deal, very worthy of chatting about...partly because it can be, and was for me on an existential level, kind of scary.

But the "validation" part is not like some kind of certificate. The experience of awakening is completely self-validating. Mainly, for me, my question was " hey, here is what happened to me ... has anything like this ever happened to you?" Needless to say, Adya's and ET's books and shortly thereafter another 100 books also provided validation, i.e. 100+ ways of hearing "yes, something very similar if not identical to that happened to me."

* * * * *

There really are only six or seven of us who have hung around this thread ... all very steady members here .. all wonderfully clear and, to my way of thinking, and sense of people, very advanced, and very caring. I have had personal communication with most of you. Thank you all for every post. Jack's journey is very special, certainly special for him and also for us. He has been profoundly open and vulnerable in his honesty. Vulnerability is the courage to be whole. And I see, in the last few posts, great growth, not only in the content of his posts, but also in style ... thanks for returning, Jack (he of multiple voices! ).

...from Walt Whitman : " ...I contain multitudes ..."

Andy

[jongibirdi1974]

Well jack im very pleased for you and have no way of knowing what state youre in. But if you say its so then who am i to say otherwise..its not my state..ive had glimpses but now just a dry State of affairs where i feel i have little creativity or inspiration..so perhaps you could offer me some insight into that?? Thank you

[karmarider]

Through inquiry and deep internal looking,..

Yes. I am not-often-enough reminded of how important Sherman's suggestion of looking has been in my journey.

[karmarider]

There really are only six or seven of us who have hung around this thread ... all very steady members here ..

Groucho Marx had the most incisive wisdom on clubs.

[snowheight]

There really are only six or seven of us who have hung around this thread ... all very steady members here ..

Groucho Marx had the most incisive wisdom on clubs.

Clubs? You mean like a shillelagh??