Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

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Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby songbird » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:08 pm

Hi everyone,

I've listned to a lot of Eckhart's teachings in the last few months as well as a lot of personal development material in general in the past few years and I find most of what he says to be valid but there are some things that bother me and clash with other things I've read.

Although they all differ, in general all the other personal development teachers go on the basis that you can change your circumstances by changing your attitude of mind and I loved that and got on very well with it until I read the power of now.

Ever since then I cant stop questioning whether or not I am resisting the now when trying to apply positive thinking and a can do attitude.

Here is a quick example of my issue: Ive read and loved the book " man's search for meaning" by Victor Frankl.

In a nutshell, Frankl was a Jew in the concentration camps of the Nazi's, all of his family members were killed and he had to endure horrible torture with the constant threat of death, but Frankl used his mind to project himself into imaginary situations like talking to his loved ones and teaching classes as a lecturer which was his profession. He managed to find peace and thrive in the most horrible of circumstances because he used his thoughts to take him somewhere else.

My question is, would Tolle say that Frankl was resisting the now and being identified with his mind? Wouldn't he tell Frankl to completely accept the now rather than trying to be somewhere else?

Do you think all the other books on positive thinking are completely against what Tolle teaches or do you think he would recommend them?

Thank you
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby Onceler » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:49 am

You're not going to like this answer, but I think you have to find out for yourself. I'm at the point where I don't believe anything anyone says, because there's a good chance that it's simply their own realization and does not apply to anyone else, certainly not me. We have to find things out on our own. Listening to others seems a waste of time to me.....precious time. This is from someone who wasted 30 years thinking others had the answer.

Now I believe it's all inside us. No gurus, Angels, higher selves, yogis, authorities, fairies, demons, nor channeled spirits or enlightened beings. I believe they are all inside you. Let's pretend they don't exist. Where would you start? Find out on your own.

Strip it all away, down to the the bone, and deeper. Start by investigating how it feels to be you, the essential you, not the you everyone tells you about.

Of course if you truly follow my advice you won't listen to me....
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby rachMiel » Tue Feb 10, 2015 4:51 am

I'm with you, brother.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby songbird » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:37 am

Thank you for your reply.

I would love to know what he would say to that.

Because, personally I am more comfortable with Frankl's way of doing things, using my mind as a tool to get through things rather than detaching myself from it as long as I'm not being a slave to the mental chatter. And I'm quite good at it but now I just keep questioning myself I really wish I did not read it sometimes. No disrespect to Tolle as I think he is very good.

Would you recommend just forgetting what I have heard from Tolle.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby songbird » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:48 am

Also to Onceler,

If there is no need for guru's and teachers why are we here? Isnt it good to try and learn from the people who have been througth certain things througthout history or learned certain skills.

Thank you.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby DavidB » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:11 pm

Hello songbird,

I've also read "man's search for meaning" by Viktor Frankl, I've read it a couple of times. A wonderful book with some very pertinent observations of the human condition, especially in the context of unbearably adverse conditions such as the Jewish holocaust. I'm certainly glad Viktor survived, as what he left us was a treasure of wisdom and a first hand account of the horrors of human cruelty and insanity.

I can't talk for Eckhart nor Viktor, I can only talk for myself. I really have no idea how I would cope with the trauma that Viktor experienced, probably not quite so well. But I think Eckhart would not recommend Viktors practice of creating fantasy in the mind but indeed simply accept the situation as it is.

However, being human leaves us with limited resources, especially when sick, fatigued, malnourished, traumatized and tortured. So maybe in Viktors situation, the ability to transcend this experience, at least for a little while, through imagination and fantasy, might be a worthwhile respite from the horrors of that particular life situation. For Viktor atleast, this seemed to be a winning recipe for survival.

I might add though, that Victor was also impressed by the human spirit, in it's ability to transcend suffering, become illuminated even upon death, simply by observing something as mundane as for example, a branch of a tree through a window while laying in a totally inadequate concentration camp hospital. He seems to have become aware of the the fact that a life situation and suffering can be transcended, so to speak, through presence and acceptance.

He also developed logotherapy, which had as the therapists main objective, to remain more or less silent and simply listen to the patient. Once again, this has notes of presence and acceptance.

Most self help books have elements of truth to them and in some regard are quite helpful. However, these are all secondary objectives. The primary objective always remains the same, bringing into the human experience, the conscious awareness of being.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby Onceler » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:34 pm

songbird wrote:Also to Onceler,

If there is no need for guru's and teachers why are we here? Isnt it good to try and learn from the people who have been througth certain things througthout history or learned certain skills.

Thank you.


Yes, most of my life I've seen things that way. Now I don't. I have no idea how you need to find your way, and would certainly never tell someone what to do. I suspect we need teachers until we realize we don't need them. The best teachers, in my opinion, are the ones who say we don't need them.....because they know we are all self reliant and need to take on full responsibility at some point. They also know that we are the same at some level and we need to work out our own separation on our own.

I believe it all works itself out in the end. Why are we here? For intense, self-reliant inquiry into the nature of who we are. After we know who we are, we live our life as it unfolds without fear or separation from our lives. The rest is irrelevant. This is what we will all end up doing at some point....for some that point is on their death bed.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby songbird » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:52 pm

Its just I find other calssic personal development more practical and real like Dale Carnegie and Steven Covey. They give me practical things I can grasp and apply easily.

Whereas Tolle's teachings seem to have so much room for error and every one has there own little view on how to practice them.

I like having goals, going towards them and striving to be a better person. I like to look good and keep fit, I like to see my self as a friendly help full person.

But its like Tolle's teachings are way to passive, I know he says there is nothing wrong with setting goals and working towards them but its very hard to do that when your constantly worrying "am I thinking too much about my future am I being identified with my ego?" and so on. I get mixed messages from him.

Thank you.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby Onceler » Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:09 pm

Sounds good to me, Songbird. I like practical goals as well and there's nothing wrong with that. It helps us live life.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby DavidB » Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:27 am

Tolle isn't presenting a self help guide in his teachings. This is not the intention of his teachings.

Tolle's only intention is to help people come to be aware of the true nature of our own existence, which is presence, and then apply that to how we experience reallity in the present moment.

Tolle is only interested in helping people become aware of their own presence, everything else you can discover on your own, as it ought to be. If this means reading self help books, then so be it.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby songbird » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:20 am

DavidB wrote:Tolle isn't presenting a self help guide in his teachings. This is not the intention of his teachings.

Tolle's only intention is to help people come to be aware of the true nature of our own existence, which is presence, and then apply that to how we experience reallity in the present moment.

Tolle is only interested in helping people become aware of their own presence, everything else you can discover on your own, as it ought to be. If this means reading self help books, then so be it.


Yes I hear you, but if I wanted to practice Tolle while studying other self help material wouldn't I probably be in direct conflict with what Tolle teaches or do you think Tolle would advise on using what suits a person in any given situation?

Are his teachings compatible with the law of attraction for instance? "we become what we think about" is a great lesson, I love it but does it go with what Tolle says. Could I apply that with being present? would I be using my mind as a tool rather than being used by it? as Tolle suggests to do.

Thank you for your comments.
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:11 am

Teachers can be very beneficial to a point. That point comes when the teaching is in conflict with one's own inner guide. One needs however, to be able to distinguish between genuine alignment with that guidance and that of existing conditioning. That recognition comes not by analysis alone, but through emotions and feelings. 'Consideration' blends both heart and mind.

WW
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby DavidB » Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:20 pm

Yes I hear you, but if I wanted to practice Tolle while studying other self help material wouldn't I probably be in direct conflict with what Tolle teaches or do you think Tolle would advise on using what suits a person in any given situation?

Are his teachings compatible with the law of attraction for instance? "we become what we think about" is a great lesson, I love it but does it go with what Tolle says. Could I apply that with being present? would I be using my mind as a tool rather than being used by it? as Tolle suggests to do.

Thank you for your comments.



Try whatever you like, if it works great, if it doesn't, then try something else.

I investigated numerous things before I found Eckhart Tolle, and even after I found Tolle, it took me a few years to come back to Tolle before I realized that what he was teaching was exactly what I had been searching for. I wasn't ready to hear what he was saying until after I had tried a few other things.

Tolle isn't offering anything new however, he isn't offering anything to add to yourself, or more to understand, no quite the opposite. Tolle attempts to bring the listener back to silence, emptiness, stillness and ultimately, peace.

It takes a while to realize that we are none of the things we think ourselves to be, that we cannot add anything to ourselves and nothing can be lost. This realization is God consciousness, although I prefer not to use that term. It is when everything is as it ought to be, nothing needs to be changed, no ambition, not minding what happens. True freedom. Liberation.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby songbird » Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:36 am

I've had a thought,

maybe you could say Frankl first had to be inadvertently concious in order to use his mind as a "tool" in order to escape his circumstances. If he wasn't concious and completely present in the moment how would he be able to do that while being starved and tortured?

He completely accepted his situation first, with no resistance then let his mind take him elsewhere not being a slave to his mental chatter but using it for a definite purpose.

You could say he was sub-consciously being concious?

what do you think?
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Re: Eckhart Tolle question? opinions needded

Postby DavidB » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:39 am

Sounds good to me. :D
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