It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby David92506 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:59 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_attraction_%28New_Thought%29
The law of attraction is the name given to the belief that "like attracts like" and that by focusing on positive or negative thoughts, one can bring about positive or negative results.[1][2][3][4] This belief is based upon the idea that people and their thoughts are both made from "pure energy", and the belief that like energy attracts like energy.[5] One example used by a proponent of the law of attraction is that if a person opened an envelope expecting to see a bill, then the law of attraction would "confirm" those thoughts and contain a bill when opened. A person who decided to instead expect a cheque might, under the same law, find a cheque instead of a bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Now
The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment is a book by Eckhart Tolle. The book is intended to be a self-help guide for day-to-day living and stresses the importance of living in the present moment and avoiding thoughts of the past or future. According to the book, only the present moment is important,[5] and both an individual's past and future is created by their thoughts.[6] The author maintains that people's insistence that they have control of their life is an illusion "that only brings pain".[5]
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:59 pm

Your first mistake was to go to Wikipedia for definition on these two references. There are few worse places to go to get real insight.

Whatever distinction that makes it appear that the two are in opposition to each other are merely a difference in context. It's like saying heads and tails on the same coin proves they are totally different coins.

LoA is based on vibration not thought. And thought, if it is not in alignment with core beliefs, will accomplish little. Beliefs are the creators of vibrations that are tuning energies of our life experience.

The Power of Now is a pointer to where life is lived. There is no past and there is no future as such. There are only present memories of the past events and imaginings of possible futures. That is not to say there is no value in such thought constructs. Only that they are best considered in context with the reality that is now.

LoA and PoN work perfectly together. LoA is simply the foundation for developing experience in this one now moment. It is an eternally unfolding process. What happens next in the unfolding of life experience? It depends on the focus of one's attention, and the nature of one's core beliefs.

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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby snowheight » Fri Feb 06, 2015 7:37 pm

Hey! Don't opposites attract sometimes?? Image
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby David92506 » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:07 pm

From my understanding, Eckhart Tolle teaches us that we don't choose life, life chooses us. When we live in the now, our paths will be clear and true. I don't choose to be a teacher, doctor, etc., that career field chooses me.

Doesn't the LoA say we need to focus our energies on what we want, change our vibrations, and it will come to us? Isn't the LoA saying, "We choose life."?
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:57 am

David92506 wrote:From my understanding, Eckhart Tolle teaches us that we don't choose life, life chooses us.

While there may be an underlying theme to our lives, predestined by our birth circumstances, environment, inherent talents and inclinations, how we relate to and interact within that theme is on us through our own choosing.

Doesn't the LoA say we need to focus our energies on what we want, change our vibrations, and it will come to us? Isn't the LoA saying, "We choose life."?

LoA doesn't say we 'need' to do anything. LoA is simply a law of energy flow and creation. Our underlying beliefs, through the frequency of their vibration, attracts life energy in support of those belief/vibrations. Giving lip service to desires, or what we want, without a corresponding genuine belief, will be unlikely to create the desired results. That said, a clear focus of feeling/attention can affect beliefs.

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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby DavidB » Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:01 pm

The Power of Now: A Guide to Spiritual Enlightenment is a book by Eckhart Tolle. The book is intended to be a self-help guide for day-to-day living and stresses the importance of living in the present moment and avoiding thoughts of the past or future. According to the book, only the present moment is important,[5] and both an individual's past and future is created by their thoughts.[6] The author maintains that people's insistence that they have control of their life is an illusion "that only brings pain".[5]


I doubt Eckhart would describe his work in these terms. This seems to have been authored by someone that doesn't quite understand Eckhart's message.

Eckhart does actually mention a type of attraction similar to the law of attraction but certainly not in concrete terms. I don't remember where he mentions this, but he said something like this, that being in alignment with the nature of our true essence, tends to create a situation where the universe appears to be somewhat more benevolent. Life becomes more pleasant, easier to navigate, things just seem to appear when they are needed, life becomes somewhat more effortless. These are my words, not Eckhart's. An awful attempt at paraphrasing.

This was the same time when he was describing how "the power of now" suddenly appeared in his consciousness as though it had already become a reality. He then set about materializing it.
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby smiileyjen101 » Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:43 am

Two words that signify energy in motion (albeit hard to describe the effect) are attention (at tension) and intention (in tension). When these two are in harmony there is equal momentum. When they are at odds there is struggle and ... chaos usually :wink:

When ET talks about in aware 'doing', being in states of acceptance, pouring joy into the moments and enthusiasm - pouring joy into and being like an arrow flying towards a target, there is no disharmony.

If ego is guiding or interrupts the 'flow' it arises as making enemy, obstacle or means to an end of a thing, person or situation - then the arrow 'wobbles' or flies off on a tangent equal to the intensity of energy being diverted into that - in attention or intention.

I think, both understanding, not necessarily the material aspects of the LOA but the cause-effect of energy in motion, and the awareness of and employing of aware doing, are the same, not opposite.

Awareness of intention and attention is where the rubber meets the road.
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby DavidB » Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:09 am

Hi Jen,

I'm not altogether certain how intention and attention relate to momentum? Sorry, would it be possible to further clarify?
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Feb 14, 2015 3:19 am

Times like this I wish I hadn't gotten kicked out of high school science for asking the 'too hard' questions :lol:

I think it's probably already described in physics. :? But I can best describe in terms of what we already know about energy generation, transfer, insulation and flows.

Ohm's law is important in that a current - the intensity of the flow of energy 'harnessed' in a circuit is the voltage (pure energy flow) divided by the resistance (insulation/resistance) to it.

Mostly we balance within the two simultaneous processes of internally generated energy flowing outward, and external energy flowing inward like an AC electricity flow - alternate currents feeding in and out in a rhythm. As long as we have the same 'voltage' the flow of tension and release that creates motion is harmonious.

If we have two different voltages, sparks occur rather than flow. So if the flow of intention is different to the flow of attention - if one is say love but the other is fear blockages or leakages, or explosions will occur.

In simple terms if our in-tension - outwardly flowing manifestation of energy in motion is to propel by whatever means to a place, that sets a whole set of related actions in motion from inward to outward to 'arrive' at that destination. That might be physically, emotionally or intellectually.

The AC flow accommodates the external influences (flows) and the internal to external input harmoniously in a circuit.

If we maintain that course of intention without any other incompatible 'dis-traction' (taking the energetic foot off the gas) or 'abs traction' (redirecting or scattering our energies) then the intention will manifest fluidly without interruption. Even if the 'course', the journey, changes in diversions, or even in stepping down the current flows, it will still maintain momentum and 'arrive' at the destination.

It's the 'ease' when one is in the flow of creative energies when stuff just 'happens'. Or the 'struggle' when one is putting their attention into obstacles or road blocks.

In creative flow detours are not obstacles, they're just detours unless we put energy into making them solid obstacles and fail to see ways around them. Rests are not permanent because all motion goes through periods of rest in tension and release - a pendulum 'stills' momentarily at the point of equilibrium and at the points of changing direction.

If energies are distracted or diverted by external energies that interact with internal processing and 'purpose', a negotiation, re-evaluation, possibly change of course will occur. These are still within the flows of tension and release and if at the same voltage/frequency flow will continue, albeit maybe down / through a different path of flow.

In the energies of acceptance, enjoyment and enthusiasm the AC 'current' flows seamlessly between internal and external flows. Hence ET says it's like being the arrow flying towards the target.

The flow is interrupted by increasing resistance, which is effectively what making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of a thing, person, situation does. We increase resistance and therefore decrease energy flow. The ego increases insulation, which in turn creates more resistance, which also in turn affects the 'voltage'.

You know how even a person's 'attention' on a thing affects the thing and by giving it our attention it affects us - it's because our attention is energetic flow and its energetic flow connect into a 'circuit'. We maintain that circuit until such time as one of us breaks off the 'connection'.

If one sings a song purely in the flow of the song, uninsulated from any of the energies or elements of a song - pure in intention, that's a totally different experience to singing a song with our attention on energy flows external to the song's energies.

Pure Intention gets watered down by the number of connections/circuits we are flowing our energies through. If I'm purely singing a song and I 'notice' someone/thing in the audience my attention is now split - I have created another circuit and my energy flow is divided. So the flow is now hijacked by attention.

In the reverse flow the objects of our attention get hijacked by our intention creating a connection another circuit and we interact with those energies.

We are constantly making new connections and we 'feel' when they are in harmony or at odds energetically.

Gee I hope I made that make sense.

In terms of the LOA for me it's just being aware of the connections and the circuits that we are making and sharing energy flows with. We can unplug or plug into whatever we like, and we often plug into things we didn't realise we created the connection to.

Often-times it's easier to see in hindsight. The in to out energetic utterances in thought or deed 'connect' to like energies and form a circuit of experience at that resonance.

There is a 'voltage' at which we connect on timeless, limitless creation energies that do not discriminate. Like a power point or the electricity generation does not give two hoots whether we plug in a kettle or a drill or a computer or a washing machine - it just freely gives them whatever they need to run through the circuits of their particular 'experience'.
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby DavidB » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:21 am

Ah ok. Thanks for that Jen, that's definitely a lot more clarification than I had anticipated. :D

It hadn't occurred to me that you were using electricity as a metaphor but now that you mention it, it does make a lot more sense.

I'll have to get some time and re-read your reply and see if I can understand it better. :)
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby coriolis » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:15 pm

To me LoA is a call to incite people to want more.
My life experience has shown me that peace and happiness are found in the opposite direction of wanting less.
For that reason I think it is misleading as an efficient path to what really will make us inwardly happy but can see why it has such a wide appeal where consumerism is a firmly established way of life.

That said, after you pursue wanting more you will eventually discover it doesn't work and look elsewhere.
So, while not the shortest path to what you "really want", it will, like just about everything else, eventually get you there.
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby Onceler » Mon Feb 16, 2015 2:34 pm

I agree Coriolis. It's useful to know how LoA works, but it's not the key to freedom or happiness.
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Feb 16, 2015 5:02 pm

My take is that in a universe of infinite abundance, wanting more is as natural as being itself. 'More' is likely the underlying reason we are here in this physical incarnation. It is likely the reason for the universe itself.

coriolis wrote:To me LoA is a call to incite people to want more.

My life experience has shown me that peace and happiness are found in the opposite direction of wanting less.

Consider this for a moment. Are you not stating a desire for more in this statement? More peace and happiness? Isn't the only real distinction the path to that peace and happiness? For you less stuff is the path to more of what you want. Both paths are valid in a universe of infinite possibilities.

The concern, and the lesson, is our relationship with our desires. Do they bring us peace and joy, or do they bring us feelings of lack and failure. My experience is that joy is found in the appreciation of possibilities rather than conditions at hand. Either path offers that same potential for joy.

It's also possible that either path can result in pain and suffering. Focusing on the lack of what we want brings a greater likelihood of pain regardless of whether it's the lack of the 'stuff' we want, or the lack of the conscious clarity we may desire.

LoA is not based on desire alone. LoA responds primarily to beliefs. We can want to be millionaires, or we can want to be enlightened. We can even want to be enlightened millionaires. But if we do not genuinely believe that its possible it's unlikely to become manifest. LoA will manifest an expression of the beliefs in our doubts first because they are what is true and genuine. Then naturally, when desire conflicts with beliefs, there is likely to be stress, and that stress, depending on the strength of the conflict, can become quite painful.

Fear of course is an expression of our beliefs. And to avoid the pain of fear we often stifle our desires for more 'stuff' in favor of another path to peace and happiness. But experience also shows that there can be considerable frustration and pain in not achieving one's goal of awakened being. Many have given up the inner work due to frustration with desired results.

Desires then, regardless of direction, are not the problem. It's clarity of process, or the lack there of, that brings difficulties and pain.

The reality is is that there is beauty in everything - manifestations as well as desires - what is, as well as our imaginings. To the degree one believes this is the degree one finds peace and joy in all life conditions.

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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby coriolis » Mon Feb 16, 2015 7:24 pm

Webwanderer wrote:My take is that in a universe of infinite abundance, wanting more is as natural as being itself. 'More' is likely the underlying reason we are here in this physical incarnation. It is likely the reason for the universe itself.

coriolis wrote:To me LoA is a call to incite people to want more material stuff.

My life experience has shown me that peace and happiness are found in the opposite direction of wanting less material stuff.


Consider this for a moment. Are you not stating a desire for more in this statement? More peace and happiness? Isn't the only real distinction the path to that peace and happiness? For you less stuff is the path to more of what you want. Both paths are valid in a universe of infinite possibilities.

The concern, and the lesson, is our relationship with our desires. Do they bring us peace and joy, or do they bring us feelings of lack and failure. My experience is that joy is found in the appreciation of possibilities rather than conditions at hand. Either path offers that same potential for joy.

It's also possible that either path can result in pain and suffering. Focusing on the lack of what we want brings a greater likelihood of pain regardless of whether it's the lack of the 'stuff' we want, or the lack of the conscious clarity we may desire.

LoA is not based on desire alone. LoA responds primarily to beliefs. We can want to be millionaires, or we can want to be enlightened. We can even want to be enlightened millionaires. But if we do not genuinely believe that its possible it's unlikely to become manifest. LoA will manifest an expression of the beliefs in our doubts first because they are what is true and genuine. Then naturally, when desire conflicts with beliefs, there is likely to be stress, and that stress, depending on the strength of the conflict, can become quite painful.

Fear of course is an expression of our beliefs. And to avoid the pain of fear we often stifle our desires for more 'stuff' in favor of another path to peace and happiness. But experience also shows that there can be considerable frustration and pain in not achieving one's goal of awakened being. Many have given up the inner work due to frustration with desired results.

Desires then, regardless of direction, are not the problem. It's clarity of process, or the lack there of, that brings difficulties and pain.

The reality is is that there is beauty in everything - manifestations as well as desires - what is, as well as our imaginings. To the degree one believes this is the degree one finds peace and joy in all life conditions.

WW


I amended my quote above with the word "material" to make my meaning clearer.
I personally find the more attention I give to money and all the things it can buy the less I focus in on things that truly make me happy and as a result suffer for it.

Not saying that is true for everyone of course.

If LoA resonates with you and leads you home or somewhere else you want to be that's great but it leaves me feeling like I've just listened to a spiel from a used car salesman.

Diversity is something we should celebrate, not denigrate.

If it struck me as it strikes you I'm sure I'd totally agree.
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Re: It Seems LoA and PoN Are Complete Opposites

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Feb 16, 2015 8:56 pm

The point is there is no escape from LoA. The "L" after all, stands for "Law". What you believe about life will be reinforced through the natural energy of being flowing into your life experience. The rest is in the choice of what we believe, either consciously, or unconsciously by way of existing conditioning.

coriolis wrote:it leaves me feeling like I've just listened to a spiel from a used car salesman.

I don't know where you get your understanding of LoA, but the salesman is not the car. Look past the sales pitch or get a better salesperson. Understand this fundamental law that effects everyone's life experience - or not. You're going to be riding in the car in either case, whether you learn how it operates or not.

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