The Ego Is My Friend

Post links to sites, web pages, videos, etc.
Forum rules
No links to copyrighted materials.

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon May 25, 2015 8:18 pm

rachMiel wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Fear and anxiety I'm noticing is stemming from a causal point either in our childhood or past lives and I don't know if healing it permanently (by uprooting the cause) is necessarily a more helpful method, than just allowing it to be, and focusing our attention elsewhere, which can be equally as effective.

It's an interesting question, isn't it?

By way of analogy, consider the water that flows out of your kitchen faucet. Let's say it contains some nasty bacteria, or nasty bacteria killers like chlorine, or rust from your pipes, or sulfur, or other impurities.

Do you fix the problem at the point where it manifests with a faucet purifier?

Or do you go upstream and clean your pipes and install a purifier where the water pipe enters the house?

The former is like present awareness, the latter like psychotherapy. Yes?


Surrender and acceptance always comes first. That's the part I was missing at times of late. I also think psychotherapy can be helpful for certain people if they need it. Sometimes there is an issue that continually arises. But I think a psychotherapist who is trained spiritually (in dealing with healing energetically) would be a better option as a complement perhaps to a practice of presence. Personally I don't see it black and white. Meaning it's not one or the other. You only limit yourself by what you don't explore. I think there a gazillions potential avenues to healing emotionally that could complement. As long as the focus of the person is based in some sort of practice or attention to presence and is not using another modality as "be all end all". I do think all of us have energetic issues that we could probably heal. Sometimes just looking at it and observing it is incredibly helpful. Other times, an additional complement is needed.

Just my opinion
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby rachMiel » Mon May 25, 2015 10:11 pm

All roads lead home ... eventually. Some might getcha there quicker, that's all. :-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
User avatar
rachMiel
 
Posts: 2459
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Pittsford

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon May 25, 2015 11:31 pm

rachMiel wrote:All roads lead home ... eventually. Some might getcha there quicker, that's all. :-)


Ultimately, yes. But, someone suffering from an acute anxiety attack might not gain much wisdom in the moment, just from knowing that all paths lead home. The more I meditate, the more I notice that it's conditioned thought patterns that bring upon feelings of uneasiness and nervousness and there are certain triggers in my own experience that bring them on. Fascinating to observe, not so much to experience though 8) .

David is right that these challenging experiences are all opportunities for growth if we are able to appreciate those feelings in the moment. Question is.....can you gain or learn anything from the thought patterns that follow suit? Or do you just observe them? I find that observing the sensations and feelings in the body, while taking the attention off of the thought can be incredibly helpful in just following the feeling. But, what to make of the thought patterns that keep erupting? Thoughts? (no pun intended)
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Tue May 26, 2015 1:37 am

Enlightened2B wrote: Absolutely. If you and I are merely disagreeing on a matter of terminology, well that's understandable. But, yes, I resonated too with what he said about 'going within' as opposed to actually 'going out of the body'. Because there is not actual 'going out' of body. Out of Body Exploration, ironically just like any form of meditation is actually 'going within'.


There is out of body exploration, there are extremely subtle states of mind, that can be known, very difficult to describe as the five sense doors are not functioning in these realms. There is no liberative wisdom when one leaves the body, practice is recommended within the framework of ones body, where sensation is experienced and not reacted towards. This severs the link in the chain of self creation. The moment we stop creating new self, our past selves(residual fuel) comes to the surface and we begin to burn through this.

Enlightened2B wrote: Curious that you would make this claim that this would not end suffering.


By observing the apple and seeing oh yes this is me, you are clinging to the apple. How can conscious awareness(self realization) occur if we are clinging to these impermanent states of being. He says we are not the skin of the apple, but then goes on to say that we are these bodies of light, I assume this is some deeper core element of the apple. Light is a wave, vibrating very quickly, this is scientifically proven to be made up of trillions of individual wavelets, all coming into existence and passing away with incredible speed. Which part of this body of light are you? Before you could answer, it is gone, and replaced by new wavelets, you are not a body of light. This I find as confusion on his part, he is identifying with this subtle form and his progress has stopped. We must go through the pearly gates, this does not mean entering a dimension of light, we are in the sphere of light already. Passing through the pearly gates, one enters the neither light nor darkness, the five sense doors shut down. This also is not you, this infinite vastness of mind is also not you, one must pass through this stage, mind sense door shuts down. "That which remains" is you, conscious awareness.

Enlightened2B wrote: He actually describes very much so in his books (and his videos as well) how his fear of death and life are completely gone

Not being afraid of death is not liberation, this is not the end of suffering. Birth is misery, he knows a new birth is awaiting in one of these other realms. These other realms are not eternal, birth in any realm is misery(ripples on the pond). Nothing but misery(vibrations) awaits him in future. I do not see a complete abolishment of suffering with this approach. I see Samadhi practice, and temporary states of bliss, which apparently need to be repeated over and over again like any addictive behaviours(intoxicating effects wear off eventually).


Enlightened2B wrote: from understanding his true nature and understanding the greater web of connectedness of reality (What SmileyJen learned in her own NDE). William says it actually in this very video. As have countless other out of body explorers and near deathers (who I've written about many times) who have completely abolished suffering by gaining a direct non physical experiential knowing of who they are and a greater understanding of their eternal nature.

How is this gaining a direct non-physical experience, when the sense doors are functioning perfectly? He said it himself this is not out of body, but going deeper into body. I agree completely with him on this part the experience although subtle is well within the realm of body(six sense doors). Also how is having a non-physical experience enlightening, there is only mind. How are we to come out of the habit of mind reacting to body without body to observe?
There is no magic pill, we need to do the work, we need to practice in developing awareness. Reaction is so strong, awareness has become so weak.



Enlightened2B wrote: Just like insight meditation for you, out of body exploration and techniques is simply another path to explore which can most certainly lead to enlightenment

Not if you do this identifying(clinging) with each entity you come in contact with.




Enlightened2B wrote: Meaning, If you believe there is only one path, you merely limit yourself to that one path and then, in return, it might appear that everyone else who's experience differs from your own, will seem 'confused' of course.

There is only one path, from misery to happiness. It will be experienced differently for everyone, we are all uniquely twisted.
There are however common waypoints along the path, that each must progress through.

Enlightened2B wrote: I'd say, use whatever works for you. If you find insight meditation to be transformational in your own experience in awakening, then by all means, keep at it, as it's worked for thousands of Buddhists in the past

Insight development has nothing to do with Buddhism.


Enlightened2B wrote: I'm meditating every day for over a week now(used to do it daily for years) indoors, outdoors, and incorporating mindfulness into every activity of my day. I take multiple moments throughout the day to simply connect with presence and allow my experience to be and most certainly am choosing to explore this path because it brings me joy in my life as does out of body exploration. There's an inner knowing inside of me that feels right when I explore this path of out of body exploration and I'm most certainly not going to stop, but I also understand that it's just one avenue.

I'm not here to tell you what to do, I'm simply sharing my insights on this matter, if you find them beneficial, then this is good.
User avatar
Fore
 
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:20 pm

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Tue May 26, 2015 2:02 am

Enlightened2B wrote: Question is.....can you gain or learn anything from the thought patterns that follow suit? Or do you just observe them? I find that observing the sensations and feelings in the body, while taking the attention off of the thought can be incredibly helpful in just following the feeling. But, what to make of the thought patterns that keep erupting? Thoughts? (no pun intended)

Every thought generates a sensation, linked to the corresponding vibratory plane. When you observe sensations you are indirectly observing thoughts. The advantage is we are coming out of thinking, the gaps begin to form between sensation(activating impermanence). Insight is developing.
The thought patterns that keep coming up are unfinished business, notice oh, I'm not observing my object I'm rolling in thinking, and come out of this and return to the object.
Insight into how this mind body phenomenon comes to be will arise.
Or, you could make this easier by taking an insight course, and being trained by experienced teachers in a helpful supportive environment. :wink:
User avatar
Fore
 
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:20 pm

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue May 26, 2015 3:00 am

Fore wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote: Absolutely. If you and I are merely disagreeing on a matter of terminology, well that's understandable. But, yes, I resonated too with what he said about 'going within' as opposed to actually 'going out of the body'. Because there is not actual 'going out' of body. Out of Body Exploration, ironically just like any form of meditation is actually 'going within'.


There is out of body exploration, there are extremely subtle states of mind, that can be known, very difficult to describe as the five sense doors are not functioning in these realms. There is no liberative wisdom when one leaves the body, practice is recommended within the framework of ones body, where sensation is experienced and not reacted towards. This severs the link in the chain of self creation. The moment we stop creating new self, our past selves(residual fuel) comes to the surface and we begin to burn through this.

Enlightened2B wrote: Curious that you would make this claim that this would not end suffering.


By observing the apple and seeing oh yes this is me, you are clinging to the apple. How can conscious awareness(self realization) occur if we are clinging to these impermanent states of being. He says we are not the skin of the apple, but then goes on to say that we are these bodies of light, I assume this is some deeper core element of the apple. Light is a wave, vibrating very quickly, this is scientifically proven to be made up of trillions of individual wavelets, all coming into existence and passing away with incredible speed. Which part of this body of light are you? Before you could answer, it is gone, and replaced by new wavelets, you are not a body of light. This I find as confusion on his part, he is identifying with this subtle form and his progress has stopped. We must go through the pearly gates, this does not mean entering a dimension of light, we are in the sphere of light already. Passing through the pearly gates, one enters the neither light nor darkness, the five sense doors shut down. This also is not you, this infinite vastness of mind is also not you, one must pass through this stage, mind sense door shuts down. "That which remains" is you, conscious awareness.

Enlightened2B wrote: He actually describes very much so in his books (and his videos as well) how his fear of death and life are completely gone

Not being afraid of death is not liberation, this is not the end of suffering. Birth is misery, he knows a new birth is awaiting in one of these other realms. These other realms are not eternal, birth in any realm is misery(ripples on the pond). Nothing but misery(vibrations) awaits him in future. I do not see a complete abolishment of suffering with this approach. I see Samadhi practice, and temporary states of bliss, which apparently need to be repeated over and over again like any addictive behaviours(intoxicating effects wear off eventually).


Enlightened2B wrote: from understanding his true nature and understanding the greater web of connectedness of reality (What SmileyJen learned in her own NDE). William says it actually in this very video. As have countless other out of body explorers and near deathers (who I've written about many times) who have completely abolished suffering by gaining a direct non physical experiential knowing of who they are and a greater understanding of their eternal nature.

How is this gaining a direct non-physical experience, when the sense doors are functioning perfectly? He said it himself this is not out of body, but going deeper into body. I agree completely with him on this part the experience although subtle is well within the realm of body(six sense doors). Also how is having a non-physical experience enlightening, there is only mind. How are we to come out of the habit of mind reacting to body without body to observe?
There is no magic pill, we need to do the work, we need to practice in developing awareness. Reaction is so strong, awareness has become so weak.



Enlightened2B wrote: Just like insight meditation for you, out of body exploration and techniques is simply another path to explore which can most certainly lead to enlightenment

Not if you do this identifying(clinging) with each entity you come in contact with.




Enlightened2B wrote: Meaning, If you believe there is only one path, you merely limit yourself to that one path and then, in return, it might appear that everyone else who's experience differs from your own, will seem 'confused' of course.

There is only one path, from misery to happiness. It will be experienced differently for everyone, we are all uniquely twisted.
There are however common waypoints along the path, that each must progress through.

Enlightened2B wrote: I'd say, use whatever works for you. If you find insight meditation to be transformational in your own experience in awakening, then by all means, keep at it, as it's worked for thousands of Buddhists in the past

Insight development has nothing to do with Buddhism.


Enlightened2B wrote: I'm meditating every day for over a week now(used to do it daily for years) indoors, outdoors, and incorporating mindfulness into every activity of my day. I take multiple moments throughout the day to simply connect with presence and allow my experience to be and most certainly am choosing to explore this path because it brings me joy in my life as does out of body exploration. There's an inner knowing inside of me that feels right when I explore this path of out of body exploration and I'm most certainly not going to stop, but I also understand that it's just one avenue.

I'm not here to tell you what to do, I'm simply sharing my insights on this matter, if you find them beneficial, then this is good.


Fore, going to have to agree to disagree on the subject of OBE because I really don't know what you're talking about anymore haha and I totally mean that with love. Your own opinions are well noted. On to your next post :D
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue May 26, 2015 3:03 am

Fore wrote: When you observe sensations you are indirectly observing thoughts. The advantage is we are coming out of thinking, the gaps begin to form between sensation(activating impermanence). Insight is developing.
The thought patterns that keep coming up are unfinished business, notice oh, I'm not observing my object I'm rolling in thinking, and come out of this and return to the object.
Insight into how this mind body phenomenon comes to be will arise.
Or, you could make this easier by taking an insight course, and being trained by experienced teachers in a helpful supportive environment. :wink:


Thanks Fore. Not sure what you mean by 'insight is developing' though. Care to explain a little further?
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby rachMiel » Tue May 26, 2015 2:07 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:David is right that these challenging experiences are all opportunities for growth if we are able to appreciate those feelings in the moment. Question is.....can you gain or learn anything from the thought patterns that follow suit? Or do you just observe them?

Or just let them have their moment in the spotlight — their (melo)drama — then pass through, leaving you unscathed.

To gain something from them, learn something ... in my experience this places them in a position of subjective importance, empowers them, reifies them.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
User avatar
rachMiel
 
Posts: 2459
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Pittsford

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby DavidB » Tue May 26, 2015 3:13 pm

spirituality is all about vulnerability


Trust, acceptance and surrender are all acts of vulnerability.

There is no intimacy without vulnerability, there is a no love without trust.

Fear and anxiety I'm noticing is stemming from a causal point either in our childhood or past lives and I don't know if healing it permanently (by uprooting the cause) is necessarily a more helpful method, than just allowing it to be, and focusing our attention elsewhere, which can be equally as effective.


Fear is the absence of trust.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Tue May 26, 2015 4:27 pm

DavidB wrote:
Fear is the absence of trust.


In what context are you referring to the word 'trust' here? Trust in......?
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby DavidB » Tue May 26, 2015 10:35 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:
DavidB wrote:
Fear is the absence of trust.


In what context are you referring to the word 'trust' here? Trust in......?



https://youtu.be/eCMunBFFY_A


In Eckhart's talk he says that "trust is the absence of fear", however I believe that this is equally as true the other way around.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Wed May 27, 2015 2:32 am

Enlightened2B wrote: Thanks Fore. Not sure what you mean by 'insight is developing' though. Care to explain a little further?

There are stages of insight one passes through as we move from apparent realities to ultimate reality.
User avatar
Fore
 
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:20 pm

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed May 27, 2015 5:44 pm

DavidB wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:
DavidB wrote:
Fear is the absence of trust.


In what context are you referring to the word 'trust' here? Trust in......?



https://youtu.be/eCMunBFFY_A


In Eckhart's talk he says that "trust is the absence of fear", however I believe that this is equally as true the other way around.


I love watching ET's videos when I'm going through rough patches in life because his words resonate deeply. In this case, I don't particularly care for the word 'trust' perhaps simply because it doesn't resonate with me on a deeper level, but I get what he's saying.

Thanks for sharing
Enlightened2B
 
Posts: 1897
Joined: Wed May 15, 2013 10:51 pm
Location: New York

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Wed May 27, 2015 8:44 pm

What are those stages of insight Fore?
User avatar
EnterZenFromThere
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: The Ego Is My Friend

Postby Fore » Wed May 27, 2015 10:45 pm

EnterZenFromThere wrote:What are those stages of insight Fore?

Better to start a meditation practice first, than concern yourself with stages, otherwise the sticky nature of mind will continuously be asking, am I there yet, have I reached this or that stage? Unless we are practicing the same technique, and have had a similar teaching as we progressed deeper into reality, my explanation of these stages would be meaningless and could cause confusion.

I am usually generally discussing some of these stages, while posting, just not mentioning them in any order.
User avatar
Fore
 
Posts: 664
Joined: Fri Aug 02, 2013 4:20 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Recommended Links

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest