Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Topics related to physical, emotional and psychological forms of pain and suffering

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:14 am

I too liked what you wrote Baba.

Recognising 'over' or 'under' are imbalance, if/when/whether we notice that imbalance is of our own creation is where wisdom comes in.
DavidB said:
I apologize if my pictorial reply to Shanti was perceived as potentially divisive or insensitive.

It seems to me, given that Shanti has already expressed their response definitively, that 'if' is an unnecessary accompaniment to an apology.

Can I gently ask David, did you really think your response would promote 'openness'? I guess I'm asking for honest reflection on your part - how 'inadvertent' was it really? Sure to take offence takes as much ego as to create it, but it takes two to tango.
It seems you were already more closed than open ... (and no thing wrong with that, just brings a different experience).
It's easy to agree and converse with those with the same ideas - far more self awareness is required to stay open when one is not sure of another's perspective.
I felt that the discussion with Shanti had become fruitless. I felt that continuing intelligent discussion had unfortunately become unattainable, as any attempt to point out potential errors in perception were met with what I perceived as defensiveness and accusation. I felt that any further attempts to point out potential errors in perception would only result in deepening potential errors, further defensiveness and further accusation.

...and so you responded at that level of awareness, capacity and/or willingness to stay open.

David said:
In human interaction, we sometimes inadvertently create friction, but of course I'm here to discuss ideas, concepts and experiences in an attempt to create a deeper understanding of all those things mystical, and potentially maybe even helping others deeper their understanding too. My hope is that we can all discuss these things with an openness to learning and discovery and in the process develop a long lasting state of peace and oneness. :)

The only choices that you can employ & express to facilitate peace and oneness or defensiveness, accusation & potential errors, are in your responses David :wink:
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com
User avatar
smiileyjen101
 
Posts: 3688
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:44 am

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby DavidB » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:14 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:Can I gently ask David, did you really think your response would promote 'openness'?


No, not really. I'd hoped for it, but what I was really wanting to do was gauge reaction.

smiileyjen101 wrote:...and so you responded at that level of awareness, capacity and/or willingness to stay open.


I'm aware of that. There appeared to me to be no way to move forward as as it were, as all attempts to clarify communication appeared to be thwarted. Hence the reason for gauging reaction.

smiileyjen101 wrote:The only choices that you can employ & express to facilitate peace and oneness or defensiveness, accusation & potential errors, are in your responses David :wink:


Yes, I know. I chose a pictorial response, rather than continue a merry go round. I knew it would provide an impact, I'd hoped the result would be quite different however.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby Baba Bozo » Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:59 pm

DavidB wrote: My hope is that we can all discuss these things with an openness to learning and discovery and in the process develop a long lasting state of peace and oneness. :)


Discussing these things is unlikely to lead to a long lasting state of peace and oneness given that given that division is a dominant property of the medium of thought in which such discussions take place.

Consider this evidence if you will. As far as I know, every ideology ever invented has subdivided in to factions which then come in to conflict with each other.

It seems not to matter whether the ideology is say, Christianity an ideology explicitly about bringing people together, or Nazism an ideology about violent racial domination etc. In both these cases, the ideology divided from within and the factions began murdering each other.

Thankfully, the conflict within ideologies is usually rhetorical instead of murderous, but the same fundamental division and conflict process seems to be arise in all ideologies, including of course New Age style teachings.

As I understand it, the fundamental misunderstanding which unites all these cases is the notion that the problem and solution lie at the level of the content of thought. Thus it is reasoned we should replace the bad thought content with good thought content and the search for the "one true way" ideology which will finally bring peace continues, but....

It never works.

If there was a one true ideology which could bring peace it seems that after thousands of years of searching by the best minds among us would have found that ideology by now.

So what then?

Peace can be found temporarily by lowering the volume of that which disturbs the peace, human thought.

But that peace can not be made permanent by an attempt to store it in conceptual form, because the minute we try that, we are back to the very thing causing all the conflicts, thought and it's inherently divisive nature.

To the degree there is a solution, it is to make peace with being human.

Thought is an amazing tool which gives we humans gifts the animals can not even imagine. But it doesn't come for free, there is a price tag to match the many wonderous benefits.

It's not complicated. If we could buy something as amazing as thought at your favorite online store, you can bet it would cost a LOT of money.

A great deal of what is happening in discussions such as we enjoy together here is the illusory search for a "have our cake and eat it too" solution where we get all the benefits without any of the price tags.

Certainly an understandable desire, but not a very realistic one, as that is rarely how life works.

Thinking about peace leads to conflict. :-)

My guess is that our human situation is likely a practical joke being played on us by rude beings operating at some higher level, sort of like junior high school kids torturing frogs to see what will happen.

The main skill to develop in such a situation could be one's sense of humor. :-)
User avatar
Baba Bozo
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 12:57 am

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sun Jun 14, 2015 5:30 pm

I'm starting to wonder whether Bozo is Phil2 reincarnated... :shock:
User avatar
EnterZenFromThere
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby rachMiel » Sun Jun 14, 2015 10:29 pm

Nah ... the English is too native sounding. ;-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
User avatar
rachMiel
 
Posts: 2459
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:46 pm
Location: Pittsford

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:56 pm

*tries to fabricate a believable conspiracy theory*

*soon loses interest in his own ludicrous plan*
User avatar
EnterZenFromThere
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:35 pm

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby Baba Bozo » Mon Jun 15, 2015 12:22 am

There is no mystery or conspiracy to unravel. I've already told you.

I'm His Flatulence Sri Baba Bozo, the founder of Bozoism, the next great world religion. I live with my many imaginary followers at the Gullible Gals Ashram, high a top the mist covered peaks of Mount Felasco in north Florida.

I am the greatest and most humblest sage of this century and probably many others as well, and you can achieve immortality by asking good questions to be included in the Book Of Bozo, the holy book which will guide humanity through the coming eras.

Just think of Christ's apostles who are are still talked about today even though they were just poor humble fishermen who lived long long ago. That could be you, going down in history in the Book Of Bozo! But you must ask good questions of His Flatulence, for there just isn't enough room in the book to include every lazy little person who blurts out some quipy blurb on a net forum.
User avatar
Baba Bozo
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 12:57 am

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby DavidB » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:01 am

Baba Bozo wrote:Discussing these things is unlikely to lead to a long lasting state of peace and oneness given that given that division is a dominant property of the medium of thought in which such discussions take place.


You're right, and hope is expecting something better in the future.

I wonder though, why it is that when we all already know this about language and verbal communication, that it is limited and flawed as soon as it exits our mouths, as it's been taught by Eckhart and mentioned here often enough, but people keep feeling the need to point it out. This is sort of like when people feel the need to point out the fact that I didn't add to every sentence a disclaimer, that everything I submit here is my own opinion, except if quoting someone else, in which case it's their opinion.

It does become somewhat tedious, or at least a little bothersome.

Baba Bozo wrote:My guess is that our human situation is likely a practical joke being played on us by rude beings operating at some higher level, sort of like junior high school kids torturing frogs to see what will happen.

The main skill to develop in such a situation could be one's sense of humor. :-)


That is not a bad analogy, I think you're right. The universe is not here to satisfy us or make us comfortable.

If people believe the world is here to satisfy them, whenever they begin to encounter their limitations, they become unhappy again. They don’t realize that the world—and by that I mean anything in the world of form, physical form, some mental forms, or emotional forms—cannot give you lasting fulfillment or satisfaction or tell you who you are. They don’t realize what they are looking for is on the formless level, and they’re seeking it on the level of form and that leads to the frustration of human existence.

So the important thing to realize is the world is not here to make me happy. When you don’t demand that the situation, or place, or person should make you happy, then actually the situation, place, or person is quite satisfying. - Eckhart Tolle


Ultimately, we should never take ourselves so seriously that we start to believe our own bullshit, because in the end, the only appropriate response is laughter.

"But it certainly is a wonderful thing to wake up suddenly in the solitude of the woods and look up at the sky and see the utter nonsense of everything including all the solemn stuff given out by professional asses about the spiritual life; and simply to burst out laughing, and laugh and laugh, with the sky and the trees because God is not in words, and not in systems, and not in liturgical movements, and not in "contemplation" with a big "C," or in asceticism or in anything like that, not even in the apostolate."
--Thomas Merton, Trappist monk

"Time spent laughing is time spent with the gods."
--Japanese proverb

“When you realize how perfect everything is you will tilt your head back and laugh at the sky."
-- Buddha
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby Baba Bozo » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:25 pm

DavidB wrote:I wonder though, why it is that when we all already know this about language and verbal communication,


I can't speak for others, but I wasn't referring to language and verbal communication, but to thought.

If we see that the conflict we are hoping to avoid is built in to fabric of thought itself then a search for the one true philosophy, understanding, explanation etc is essentially over. It continues perhaps only as a kind of fun card game.

When Eckhart understands this, he will stop writing books. When we understand it, we will stop reading such books. Maybe that's why people keep trying to point this out, as it has huge implications for activities we've grown very fond of?

It's that addictive fondness which keeps Baba Bozo engaged in a typoholic activity which he knows to be essentially meaningless, well, beyond it's entertainment value. Again, a sense of humor about one's very human self contradictory predicaments is advised.

Philosophies and books etc presume that there is some set of ideas which will lead to peace. This might be true if the problem we are addressing was a function of bad ideas, which could be replaced with good ideas.

But if conflict arises from the inherently divisive nature of thought itself, then all ideas will lead to conflict. See? Yes, New Age ideas too.

A huge pile of evidence suggests this to be true, as every ideology ever invented appears to come to conflict with other ideologies, and even with itself as the ideology divides in to competing internal factions.

People typically try to sweep this conflict under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist by gathering in groups where everybody agrees with them. But this too never works for long, as every group built around any idea inevitably divides in to competing factions.

As example, if conflict in the ocean arises from particular bad fish, then if those particular fish were replaced with nicer fish, a solution to conflict could be found. But if the conflict arises from the water all the fish are mostly made of then...

Whole different story.

The fish can not live without water. It is who they are, their inescapable "what is". Thus, their only option is to make peace with conflict. Manage it, yes. But end it, no, impossible.

There is no food we can eat which will end our physical hunger forever. All we can hope to accomplish is to make peace with the routine of managing our physical hunger. All we can do is get a job, make some money, go to the store, buy the food, cook the food, eat the food, day after day after day for all our lives.

Thus, when we are dealing with our physical hunger, we never see ourselves as being on a path, because we know we are never going to go anywhere different except in death. Seeing this clearly, we are realistic, and make peace with the need to manage our hunger every day of our lives.

If we see that inner and outer conflict arises from thought itself, and that thought is an inescapable requirement of human life, then we see that managing psychic hunger is exactly like managing physical hunger. It's just a routine maintenance job, not a glorious path up the holy mountain, and all of that.

They don’t realize what they are looking for is on the formless level, and they’re seeking it on the level of form and that leads to the frustration of human existence.


Yes, what we're really looking for is the formless, the void, death. It will come soon enough, surprisingly soon. There's really no need to rush it, the peace we seek is guaranteed, just not RIGHT NOW, that's all.


So the important thing to realize is the world is not here to make me happy. When you don’t demand that the situation, or place, or person should make you happy, then actually the situation, place, or person is quite satisfying. - Eckhart Tolle


And then sooner or later you will have to return to thought, and once again pay the price tag for having access to that powerful tool.

There is no clever trick which can avoid that price tag. The whole New Age realm is built upon a search for the trick which can avoid the price tag, but it doesn't exist.

Again, I don't mean to pick on Tolle who seems to be a nice fellow and surely a very gifted writer, but....

Tolle clearly has a need for money, power and fame.

This isn't a crime or a scandal, the fellow is human that's all. And I point out his needs out only to remind us that even the most gifted among us still must pay the price tag for using thought.

Even Tolle must eat food. Day after day.

Even Tolle must go to the bathroom. Day after day.

Even Tolle must think. Day after day.

Even Tolle must pay the price tag of thinking. Day after day.
User avatar
Baba Bozo
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 12:57 am

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby DavidB » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:31 am

Baba Bozo wrote:I can't speak for others, but I wasn't referring to language and verbal communication, but to thought.


Yes, true, and we are here communicating verbal language in text, and thought generally consists of words.

Baba Bozo wrote:If we see that the conflict we are hoping to avoid is built in to fabric of thought itself then a search for the one true philosophy, understanding, explanation etc is essentially over. It continues perhaps only as a kind of fun card game.

When Eckhart understands this, he will stop writing books. When we understand it, we will stop reading such books. Maybe that's why people keep trying to point this out, as it has huge implications for activities we've grown very fond of?


We could say that about everything. Why even bother to come here and discuss ideas, when everything is meaningless and their is no point, why even bother being alive? Even if we could think of the most amazing and totally mind blowing reason for all of this, something that culminates at the end of the universe, it's magnificence beyond imagination, we would still be left with this question, "so what do we do now, sit around and admire it for an eternity"?

Because any response is only going to potentially create more conflict, why even bother replying to your post? Maybe at heart, I'm really a sadist. :D

Everything you have said makes sense though and it is something I have contemplated over the years. I'm not going to dissect it and make counter arguments, as that's tedious and I couldn't be bothered doing it, and we agree that it's completely pointless anyway.

So I'll just say this. Because human existence is a conscious experience of limitation, vulnerability and loss, there is no way the human consciousness has any way of knowing the big picture. We only see a tiny slither of reality, through a hazy and little window. The best we can do is cultivate an acceptance of our puny human existence, live it, love it, and prepare to die. Everything else is window dressing.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
User avatar
DavidB
 
Posts: 640
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:55 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Mind Movies? Absolutely!

Postby Baba Bozo » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:15 pm

Why even bother to come here and discuss ideas...


Typing and reading can be entertaining.

...when everything is meaningless and their is no point, why even bother being alive?


Being alive can be entertaining.

"so what do we do now, sit around and admire it for an eternity"?


Admiring reality can be entertaining too. :-)

Because any response is only going to potentially create more conflict, why even bother replying to your post? Maybe at heart, I'm really a sadist. :D


That's the conclusion most of Baba Bozo's readers eventually come to. :-)

Seriously, you're a human being as is His Most Flatulent Bozoness, and thus we enjoy conflict, it's our very nature. That's why we seek it out conflict so often, it can be entertaining. :-)

Tolle's teachings are conflict based. They propose a conflict between the reality of the ordinary thought based conflict saturated human beings we typically are in day to day life, and some imagined and usually imaginary higher being who is somehow transcending conflict etc etc.

It is the conflict between our ordinary real lives and this projected imaginary super life which creates the story arc which is the structure of all melodrama. The characters was here, and then he went there, very entertaining.

Readers will soon weary of His Most Blasphemous Bozoness, as his little specialty is stripping out the soap opera melodrama ego fueled glamorous glorious becoming story which can be so dear to readers, their most prized possession perhaps, and replacing it with just another routine maintenance task, like the brushing of our teeth.

Those readers who are serious will welcome a simple routine maintenance task as a replacement for the endlessly complicated esoteric glorious hike up the mystical holy mountain to nirvana which is somehow always just out of reach no matter how many Tolle books we read etc etc.

But most readers are not serious, and so they will soon ask that someone turn the wonderful becoming movie back on.

It has always been thus, and always will be so.

Everything you have said makes sense though and it is something I have contemplated over the years. I'm not going to dissect it and make counter arguments, as that's tedious and I couldn't be bothered doing it, and we agree that it's completely pointless anyway.


It's not completely pointless. Life is short, very short, fun is good and doing the debate dance can be fun if we don't take it too seriously. It's not thought and debate etc which is the problem, but our relationship to them.

So I'll just say this.


I thought that might happen. :-)

Because human existence is a conscious experience of limitation, vulnerability and loss, there is no way the human consciousness has any way of knowing the big picture. We only see a tiny slither of reality, through a hazy and little window. The best we can do is cultivate an acceptance of our puny human existence, live it, love it, and prepare to die. Everything else is window dressing.


Darn, it's rude of you to type something I have to agree with. I'm _this close_ to reporting you to the moderator. :-)

The fact that we can never see the big picture is not failure, but a great gift given to us by Whoever or Whatever. It is our ignorance which fuels the mystery of life which is...

...so very entertaining.

And anyway, WTF is wrong with this movie theater anyway. Why is there no free popcorn???
User avatar
Baba Bozo
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 12:57 am

Previous

Return to Pain and Suffering

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron