What Am I - What Are You?

[rachMiel]

Lately, through inquiry, I've been finding myself unfindable!

I know the feeling! Mebbe we should check the Samsaric Lost 'n Found?

[universal_namaste]

We are ...

conscious stardust

aware matter

noticing energy

a nameless cognition

a joyfull mysterious biengness

a smiling presence

a loving watcher

a glorious consciousness

[Sighclone]

Welcome, universal_namaste. We hope you enjoy your stay here.

Andy

[Phil2]

Hi Andy,
Andy:
> Ego means accepting and nourishing a false self.

Then what is it that does that ?

Hi Marcel,

Being new in this forum and looking into this interesting thread, I answer only now to your interesting question you asked some years ago (sorry for being late

Only thought can create and feed the sense of ego. Ego just means a wrong identification of formless awareness (which is our very essence) to forms (physical forms ie. the body and psychological forms ie. thoughts, beliefs, knowledge etc ...).

So ego is really the sense of being separated from the totality, to be a limited fragment of the whole.

Hence ego is always looking to complete itself, always asking for more: more possessions, more recognition, more love, more status ... and can never succeed in this endless and restless quest for becoming and achieving and accumulating ... creating all kinds of conflicts with 'other' fragments ("Hell is other people") ... hence the suffering and restlessness ... Ego always operates in time, and can never stay quiet in the present moment, which is the only one reality and source of satisfaction.

In one of his talks, Eckhart reminded us this quote from Blaise Pascal:

“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone.”

[Phil2]

I find the question , Who am I, who are you, useless anyway. Don't you? All the people you know say that they are their body when you ask them who are they?

Hello Gen,

Yes, Eckhart Tolle has evidenced oftentimes that only suffering can lead you into this questioning on ourself, on our deep nature, in order to understand the root cause of suffering, and maybe end it.

The one who does not suffer does not need indeed to ask himself this question about his identity, he just enjoys life, and he is probably right to do so ... as life is there to be enjoyed ...

This has also been the quest of Buddha himself "Why is there suffering ... and how can it be ended" ... which is a central teaching in Buddhism known as "The Four Noble Truths".

And Buddhism also comes to this conclusion that ego is the root of human suffering, and that ego is 'unsubstantial' which means has no substance, is empty ... only a creation of conditioned thought identified with physical and psychological forms ... ie. an illusion ...

[Mystic]

How many levels of self could there be? Little self? Medium self? Meta-self?

Language is written with symbols. The symbols represent utterances that combine to form words of the language and the words become a flow of ideas. Ideas come from an ultimate Source that is in itself abstract, being without form. Mathematics is a language. It has been observed and noted that mathematics is very useful for describing the physical laws that govern natural phenomena and events in the physical world.

Equations show how two apparently different kinds of ideas are equal, and their difference is zero. Ideas can be arranged into coherent patterns of thought, with ever increasing complexity. Ultimately, from the One Idea of all possible ideas, which is the most general thought, this one universal idea can be differentiated into an infinite complexity of diversity.

If truth is represented by light and illusion is represented by shadows then the shadows are forms and images that are completely dependent on the light for their existence. The perceived existence of any illusory form is the content of the light that gives it the appearance of reality. This relationship merits the contemplation of mind and the description of what appears to be an absolute reality of light that forms the foundation for the contingent mirage of ever changing forms and shadows. The absolute truth of an unchanging timeless realm, and the relative truth, which is the ever changing contingency of an illusion or dream.

Some theories propose that mind is solely the product of matter - that is to say the material processing of the brain neurons. These materialistic philosophies seem to say that only physical matter and physical space are real and the mind is a type of illusion. Matter is the illusion, the dream, and mind is the reality.

How can mind emerge from a pattern of matter? The absoluteness of mind establishes the relative patterns of form. A shadow does not become light, only the play of light casts the shadows. Ultimately, only One Absolute Mind exists. Other minds within the Ultimate Mind are thoughts within the One.

Certainty exists in the truth of the Absolute Mind. Uncertainty exists in the shadows of the contingent mind. Diversification of identity entails the interplay of shadows and form, being separated from the gnosis of Super-consciousness. Separated minds are contingent, uncertain, and unaware of their connection to the Ultimate Source of Truth. Super-consciousness, or Christ-consciousness is Spirit. The walking around personality consciousness is primarily controlled by the ego, which is the uncertain or "fearful" aspect of mind that seeks division, conflict, and separation. The subconsciousness is primarily of the the psyche, or "soul".

When consciousness expands, the ego's uncertainty is seen in the light of increased understanding. There is a release from fear. The pull of the ego becomes weaker. The pull of the Super-consciousness becomes stronger. From duality of the ego self to Oneness of the Absolute awareness... The One Life...

Sometimes I have these shifts? in consciousness, and for a few timeless moments I am not a separate isolated self. I am life. There is only one life and that life is everything.

[aquarius123esoteric]

. . . When consciousness expands, the ego's uncertainty is seen in the light of increased understanding. There is a release from fear. The pull of the ego becomes weaker. The pull of the Super-consciousness becomes stronger. From duality of the ego self to Oneness of the Absolute awareness... The One Life...

Sometimes I have these shifts? in consciousness, and for a few timeless moments I am not a separate isolated self. I am life. There is only one life and that life is everything.

The Universal Force gives us these glimpses from time to time, to encourage us to keep going and looking for more. This continues until the Highest or God consciousness has taken over our whole being and we dwell constantly in Its presence and awareness. With love - Aquarius

[AnanasPie]

Read and heard about the messages of Eckhart and it was by far the biggest aha moment in my life.

Let me get to the question.

Why are not the signals by the brain who make up all those stories about me buying a car in 5 years or getting 1 million dollar not as true as me right now?
Wouldnt it be more real to say that everything is real?

You guys and everybody else who say there is no self is basically saying that all the senses like sight, hearing and taste are REAL but the inner life which is made up of neurons firing isnt real because it is not as "visible" and good as the most obvious senses.

It would be more right to say everything is real, everything i sense is real because everything i think have to be created by something (the brain).

[Webwanderer]

You guys and everybody else who say there is no self is basically saying that all the senses like sight, hearing and taste are REAL but the inner life which is made up of neurons firing isnt real because it is not as "visible" and good as the most obvious senses.

It would be more right to say everything is real, everything i sense is real because everything i think have to be created by something (the brain).

I am certainly not in the camp that says there is no self. Quite the contrary. As to the consideration that everything is real, I would suggest that no 'thing' is real when you realize that things are more of an appearance based on energy and vibration. That said, what is real is experience. So while the chair I sit in may fundamentally be energy and vibration more so than substance and form, the experience of the chair as substance and form is quite real.

WW

[AnanasPie]

You guys and everybody else who say there is no self is basically saying that all the senses like sight, hearing and taste are REAL but the inner life which is made up of neurons firing isnt real because it is not as "visible" and good as the most obvious senses.

It would be more right to say everything is real, everything i sense is real because everything i think have to be created by something (the brain).

I am certainly not in the camp that says there is no self. Quite the contrary. As to the consideration that everything is real, I would suggest that no 'thing' is real when you realize that things are more of an appearance based on energy and vibration. That said, what is real is experience. So while the chair I sit in may fundamentally be energy and vibration more so than substance and form, the experience of the chair as substance and form is quite real.

WW

Thanks for the answer.

Wait a minute. Not no self? What about the terminology "ego"?
So the experience of a chair is real, i agree. But the experience of a chair is made up in your head by neurons firing, now when you are having a thought does neurons also firing, if you are schizophrenic* does neurons fire and so on.

[Webwanderer]

But the experience of a chair is made up in your head by neurons firing,...

Is that all it is? Or are neurons firing just another type of experience perceived from an awareness greater than the brain? Neurons firing may give information about the nature of the chair in an electrochemical form, but it is consciousness that interprets that information and perceives it as a useful format. There is nothing like any conclusive evidence that indicates consciousness is a product of the brain. There is however, considerable evidence that consciousness continues when the brain no longer functions.

If consciousness survives and therefore transcends the brain, the brain cannot be the seat of self or consciousness. Ego in my view is primarily a belief in self built upon identification with thoughts. That is not necessarily a bad thing, it just a design feature that creates unique opportunities for experience based on a construct of assumptions.

WW

[AnanasPie]

But the experience of a chair is made up in your head by neurons firing,...

Is that all it is? Or are neurons firing just another type of experience perceived from an awareness greater than the brain? Neurons firing may give information about the nature of the chair in an electrochemical form, but it is consciousness that interprets that information and perceives it as a useful format. There is nothing like any conclusive evidence that indicates consciousness is a product of the brain. There is however, considerable evidence that consciousness continues when the brain no longer functions.

If consciousness survives and therefore transcends the brain, the brain cannot be the seat of self or consciousness. Ego in my view is primarily a belief in self built upon identification with thoughts. That is not necessarily a bad thing, it just a design feature that creates unique opportunities for experience based on a construct of assumptions.

WW

I am currently in a period of "resistance", even if i still try to be more in the now do i question some things that comes with this "philosophy". There are so many religions and beliefs out there and the all claim to know the truth. And even if this doubt can be descirbed as the ego fighting against enlightenment do i take that risk.

It's a very nice thought that you are everything instead of your body. But isn't this just a matter of scale. The moon is very far away from us seen from the earth. But seen 400 lightyear away from us do a alien think the moon and the earth is in the same spot.

[Webwanderer]

I am currently in a period of "resistance", even if i still try to be more in the now do i question some things that comes with this "philosophy".

Just follow what feels right. If it feels right to question, then question. If the question feels fear based, question the question. There is no test here to get right or wrong. There is only the experience of greater or lessor clarity of being. What does being feel like when words are not present?

There are so many religions and beliefs out there and the all claim to know the truth.

Religions 'out there' are someone else's belief about truth. If it's out there then it's not in here. In here is where truth can be known. In saying that I do not suggest there is some final truth to be grasped and held. Evolution of consciousness and being is not stagnant by its very definition. There is always more. There is always greater clarity to be realized.

Religions and philosophies offer pointers that may or may not be useful. It depends on how they inspire insight in each individual. Again does a pointer feel right? Does it generate fear? Or something else entirely? What you choose to follow will go a long way in creating the life experience you have.

...even if this doubt can be descirbed as the ego fighting against enlightenment do i take that risk.

Does it feel like the best course to take a risk? Does it feel right to avoid such risk? Isn't avoidance a risk in itself? Feel it out.

It's a very nice thought that you are everything instead of your body. But isn't this just a matter of scale. The moon is very far away from us seen from the earth. But seen 400 lightyear away from us do a alien think the moon and the earth is in the same spot.

You're thinking in linear terms here. It's not a matter of space but one of vibration. All stations are on the same radio dial. The apparent distance is only in terms of frequency. A physical form is a result of a certain range of frequency. The whole of the physical universe is such.

You are a master of frequency in your greater beingness. All potential frequency is contained within our greater consciousness which has its origin in Source Itself. We are all extensions of Source living through unique perspectives of individuality. We all have a common essence, yet each a unique perspective.

WW

[AnanasPie]

Thanks for the answer.

I am following a guy on youtube, and i get this feeling that this enlightenement he is doing when he every week is posting a new video is nothing more than any other "selftalk".
I guess i am lost to doubt. Because i have this sense of question.

I can accept the notion that there are no free will and it is a pretty nice one, some people thinks this is a depressive thought but i don't.
The notion about no self however does feel strange.

Sorry but it i am not satisifed. To me does it sees like just a believe like all the other religions out there. And it is because enlightenment is supposed to be no thought. But then do i actually have thoughts and it made up of something.

[Nomember]

What Am I - What Are You?

I'm going to give an answer to the thread title question from my direct perception....which is

Life is one unconditioned spontaneous impersonal unitary movement. Life doesn't ask questions. Life doesn't want to know, since life is everything, it is the knowing.

Questions come from the personal, the one that want's to know.

This one that want's to know can never know for it is already the known.

If Life is all knowing,which it quite clearly is..then there is no need for it to ask a question.

The answer to the question 'what am I' ... can only come from the same one who's asking?

Life is illusory though it appears to be real. Therefore any knowledge about Life is illusory.