Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:21 am

Try to wrap your mind around this article if you can :)

I know desire gets a bad wrap in certain teachings and certain beliefs systems and that's fine. However, desire ironically I've come to see is what we come to explore. Desire is our entire premise of individuality and manifestation. We can say individuality, desire, free will is all an illusion and maybe it very well is from a greater perspective and I can absolutely see that, but it's also easy to get lost there and miss the purpose of this incredible human incarnation that is only a speck on the radar of infinity. Any spiritual practice that teaches about negating desire or getting rid of desire to me, is trapped in its own human belief system.

Without desire, there is no creation and without creation, there is no life. Even the act of getting rid of desire ironically IS desire. Desire is an exploration of certain values that you want to bring to life. Life is not separate FROM us. Nor is life happening TO us. We ARE that life force creating through our belief systems and it's our beliefs systems and the use of contrast which enable us to create from a desire that is sparked within us by utilizing the contrast to actualize it into reality. After all, what is Self actualization? It's making actual.....your own uniqueness/desires/passions into a creative tapestry of life in any manner we so choose. It's not just waking up to some blob of Awareness. It's actually expressing your own uniqueness in countless, infinite ways.

After all, why are we here? I say we are here to experience the joy that we naturally are........ through creating something that represents our deepest values from the level of Spirit. What is passion, if not the exploration and experience of something that resonates on a deep level within us? Is not these passions which drive us in our every day lives to do something? The entire premise behind spiritual awakening as I see it now, with a different view than I had previously (not better or worse, just different), is seeing that much of what has driven us since childhood is actually NOT aligned with who we truly are, but is a programming or conditioning set in forth by our parents and society and INTENTIONALLY done, none the less, which we come to explore on purpose. Without that contrast of experiencing what we are NOT, we would not be able to bring to life the desire and passion of what we truly ARE, and create from that place, from those values. It's one desire that sparks creation. Everything is imagination. Within the infinite mind of imagination, anything is ultimately possible. Life lacking meaning is an empty canvas waiting for us to provide with the meanings we so choose that align with our nature.

When you are living life with Joy, you are living aligned with that passion.

Waking up to the full expression of our true nature and aligning with aspects of life that bring us joy is what expansion truly is I feel. Expression and creation go hand in hand. In no way, have I applied this to my life fully on any level. I'm literally still struggling, but I'm getting there more and more, the more I am able to let go and surrender. Surrendering and letting go, is the first step within all of this.

Another perspective from Sparrow pertaining to the LoA and this essentially is everything that Abraham Hicks teaches, perhaps a bit more in depth, but right in line. It's a bit wordy, but there's a lot of insight here I find. The Abraham Hicks teachings by the way, are NOT in contrast with Eckhart Tolle and they go beautifully together.

Take what you will from it.

https://spiritguidesparrow.wordpress.com/2014/11/01/intention-manifestation-passion-creativity/
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Fore » Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:07 pm

To answer your questions e2b you must know yourself at deeper and deeper levels. How does it feel a mind full of cravings(desires) vs a mind with much less. Desire agitates the pond, how are we to ever be peaceful when the mind we carry is full of desire for the next thing?
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Apr 06, 2016 5:06 pm

I don't know what question you are referring to, but the post was just a statement and not a question, pertaining to my experience of late and where I resonate with in my life as of now and sharing a beautiful perspective with others in helping people to understand deeper why we are truly here as the way I personally see it, and no, I don't see it the same as you. Desire is not cravings or attachment at all in my life. That sounds more like addiction which is far far far different than desire. Perhaps it was in your life and anything can become an addiction in anyone's life, and I'm sorry to hear that if that's how things became for you. But, I assume your path has worked wonderfully for you as you seem like you're in good shape as to where you are right now.

However, please note, that your own path that you are on IS a desire of yours. Remember when we talked about goals in the other thread? Goals stem from passion and desire. Anything that you are passionate about in this life IS a desire for you. Are you passionate about meditation and crushing down the ego and going deeper and deeper as you describe? That's beautiful to me. You know why? Because that's your own DESIRE. That's your own PASSION in this life. I might not agree necessarily in applying your spiritual principles to my own life and I don't see things the same way at all with the ego. But, that is perfectly fine. I find it beautiful that you have your own set of desires and passions in this life.

Not seeing that it's your own passions and desires is your own limited beliefs system ironically making you believe you've gone PAST desire when desire is always here my friend. YOU are not the desires themselves, but the desires themselves are based on values you hold truly to you whatever those values might be. That's how creation and manifestation happen. You can't eliminate desire, or you would no longer get out of bed. Believing you are free of desires and beliefs are just more beliefs. It's ok though as, none of us can live as human beings without belief systems. Everything we talk about on this forum is filtered through our own belief systems on some level and that means EVERYTHING.

Thank you Fore for expressing your own view points. We don't always have to agree and we don't most of the time, but I appreciate the perspective you offer.

I'd like to add, did you actually read the article? I highly suggest it. :D
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Fore » Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:31 pm

Desire is a deep wanting for something. Dictionary definition. In Pali it is known as tanha, which means thirst or craving. I can't communicate with you if you have your own meanings for words.
What is our purpose of life? Butterfly pancakes gorilla sandwich, that should be clear.

Any desire is the cause of dukkha(misery) even the pleasant dukkha is still dukkha because it cannot last it arises to pass away, why desire for this? Just see it as it is being etenal life.

It sound like you want to keep wanting to want, and that is fine but it will lead to great miseries. I'm not going to agree with you just because you want to write something unless it it agreeable to me.
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Apr 06, 2016 7:10 pm

Fore wrote:Desire is a deep wanting for something. Dictionary definition.


Absolutely, unless you are a robot, a deep wanting, a deep passion is how we create my friend. Even a wanting to crush the ego to dust as you describe. Even a wanting to go deeper and deeper in spiritual practice as you describe is a desire :D

What is our purpose of life? Butterfly pancakes gorilla sandwich, that should be clear.


I'm not sure I understand what that statement means on any level.

My purpose in life? My purpose in life is to live my live through joy. There are many things that bring joy to my life. What brings joy to your life Fore? Where do you feel the greatest sense of expansion? Those are the questions you should be asking.

Any desire is the cause of dukkha(misery)


That's your own belief

It sound like you want to keep wanting to want, and that is fine but it will lead to great miseries. I'm not going to agree with you just because you want to write something unless it it agreeable to me.


Who is asking you to agree with me? You're the one that chose to respond to this post out of......your own desire. :D
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Fore » Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:56 pm

This has nothing to do with belief, it is the truth, you just have to look to see this. This is exactly what a spiritual practice is all about. Going deeper and deeper into presence is not a desire, neither is refining the egoic tendencies.
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:47 am

Fore, it sounds to me like you've vastly missed the context of my comment pertaining to "even spiritual practice being a desire" because you seem in my opinion to be very focused on the spiritual practice itself as being such a form of truth, that you can't see the motivation BEHIND the practice which is always desire and passion itself within you that creates the spark for you to EMBARK on the practice in the first place. It's the spark and passion and desire which keeps you going on that spiritual "practice" itself.

When we hold so tightly to a belief about something, we will do anything to deny that we are holding that belief, even by taking on another belief where we believe that we don't hold that belief in the first place and yet, we can't see the forest for the trees within all of this, because we're still not being authentic within ourselves.

The incredible thing about this beautiful reality is that it's all imagination. Whatever you hold true for yourself within your core vibration (your core beliefs) will manifest ultimately. It's all good either way.

Thanks for contributing Fore and while I disagree, I again appreciate and value your perspective. Let's just agree to disagree because we are talking in very very different lingo here based on our own perspectives and experiences.
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Fore » Thu Apr 07, 2016 1:27 am

If you want to believe that presence is desire, you are free to do so.
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:07 am

No, I never said presence is equal to desire. I'm not sure why you keep interpreting it that way. Presence is what we are.

I'm simply (trying to) point out that the act of taking on even a spiritual practice such as the one that you have.....ALSO......stems from desire or a spark or passion, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. The act of taking on a spiritual practice doesn't just happen on its own. It happens because you had a desire to explore that path.

The act of doing anything in our lives, stems from a desire or a wanting or a passion. This is a beautiful thing and is how we create. I am just trying to show how the notion of condemning desires does not work, because desires or passion is the driving force for anything and everything we do in this life.....aka....creation. Even the desire of NOT having or wanting desires....is ITSELF.....yet another desire.

Creativity is all there is. Consider that creativity is the reason you chose to be here right now in this life at this beautiful time, whether you remember it or not and whether it is happening consciously or unconsciously. The entire premise of waking up and unraveling the layers of masks we where.....is so we can actually create from a place that truly represents who we truly are, as opposed to manifesting and creating from a place of conditioned beliefs we've taken on. It's an incredibly beautiful life changing thing when we are able to create something, no matter how big it is, from a place that aligns with JOY, which is our nature. Creation is happening on an infinite scale and the more we create from that place of JOY, the more we expand infinitely.

Having wants is how we live and create in this world. ANY idea that ever happened in this world stemmed initially from a desire or a wanting to express a certain set of values. To get RID of that desire is to get rid of the beautiful tapestry of expression. It's to deny the very essence of your own authenticity.

Claiming that you are "wanting to going as deep as you possibly can in a spiritual practice, beyond ego and eradicating desires altogether" is ITSELF another form of wanting.....aka.....a desire. The very thought of "wanting to eradicate desires" ITSELF stems from a desire.

I think it's very easy for people in spiritual communities or circles or people who take on a spiritual practice to believe that they have actually gone BEYOND desire, when it is impossible to go beyond desire and ironically just becomes another belief we take on.

Now understand, I myself agree on a certain level with you in that clinging too hard to anything in life can indeed lead to suffering, just like addiction. However, clinging to something is not in any way the same as having a desire to express yourself in a certain way. Desire is the artist's paint brush for expression and the human tool for contrast.

Eliminating desire and wanting is eliminating, music, art, dance, expression and life itself. Expression and creativity are inherent to our beautiful infinite loving nature. They ALL stem from a desire or want to express.

You've already expressed your own desires to me in this thread and in other threads about what is important to you. It's beautiful, because it's YOUR expression and no one can take that away from you. Your spiritual practice which is so vital to your own life is the beautiful rhythm that your own heart beats to, because it aligns with core values of your own and brings you JOY in your life. Otherwise, you would not be doing it and that's what you choose to explore and express. But......all of it stems from your own wanting and desire to explore a particular path.

Anyway, I'll leave it at that
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Fore » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:55 am

"Fear and desire are the two movements of the unconscious state" ET

You cannot desire and be present.

A spiritual practice is just that a practice of expanding awareness, when observing breath or sensation there is for those precious moments no desire. This has absolutely nothing to do with any religious belief structures.it is simply truth.
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:12 am

Fore wrote:A spiritual practice is just that a practice of expanding awareness, when observing breath or sensation there is for those precious moments no desire. This has absolutely nothing to do with any religious belief structures.it is simply truth.


But, this quote is out of context with the points I am making above. It's a straw man argument as I again, am not referring to your actual spiritual practice whether your practice is meditation in a void of emptiness or something completely different, it has no bearing on what I am saying.

I am pointing out that it is your drive to embark on the practice in the first place and your drive and passion to keep up with the practice and to talk about the practice here on this forum. What motivates you on any given day to meditate? What motivates you to go on a meditation retreat? What motivates you to discuss in detail about your spiritual practice on this forum? What motivates you to respond to this very thread which obviously does not resonate with you in the first place? What motivates you to want to crush the ego to dust as you wrote to Rob in another thread?

Again, those aren't criticisms about your spiritual practice. I'm just trying to get you to see that it is passion and desire which motivates you to have a spiritual practice in the first place or to make any kind of choice. That means you have passion about your practice and it means there is something in your life that drives you to continue that practice on a regular basis. That is called.....desire. You can replace it with any word you want, it's still going to have the same meaning. Without desire, you would have no choices in your life.

Thanks for the ET quote and as much as I value ET's subtle pointers still to this day and I still come back to them when I need them, I don't see his teachings as that expansive when it comes to understanding the LoA and desire and ego, and personally have moved into a somewhat more expansive view on that subject matter away from ET's teachings. However, understood in context , ET and LoA work perfectly together.

I will leave off with this video from Abraham Hicks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzPKmwbxUeI&nohtml5=False
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby DavidB » Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:53 am

I think they they might be confusing desire with self interest.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Fore » Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:36 pm

A spiritual practice does not have to come from desire(it could I am only speaking from my experience)it comes from a calling it is a waking up it just comes about. Understand I am not suggesting I am free from desires, there is still much time spent in identification. But this can not change the laws of nature. Desire is a cause of suffering whether you apparently like this suffering or not .it is a bottomless bucket you can never fill it and satisfy your thirst.
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Enlightened2B » Thu Apr 07, 2016 4:53 pm

Fore wrote:A spiritual practice does not have to come from desire(it could I am only speaking from my experience)it comes from a calling it is a waking up it just comes about. Understand I am not suggesting I am free from desires, there is still much time spent in identification. But this can not change the laws of nature. Desire is a cause of suffering whether you apparently like this suffering or not .it is a bottomless bucket you can never fill it and satisfy your thirst.


Oh my dear friend.....EVERYTHING comes from desire on some level whether that desire is aligned with a conscious purpose or reinforcing an unconscious belief system of desiring NOT to have something you don't want, it will still manifest because of the underlying belief. That is simply how vibration works. You're calling your own motivation and passion to embark on a spiritual path.....a "calling" or "it just comes about", when, in actuality it IS a desire of yours and only a desire/passion that has sparked you. But, your own belief system will not allow you to see it that way.

However, desire does not always manifest in the way you want it to. It all depends on the underlying beliefs. Beliefs are what manifest. If your desire is stemming from a place of fear of NOT getting what you want, you will indeed manifest that and THAT can cause suffering, but that is SUCH a mis understanding of how creation works, to simply vilify desire altogether, just because the suffering you have likely endured in the past stemmed from not understanding how conscious creation works. Most of us don't. I've JUST started to learn over the past several months. It's been an up and down road, but I'm finally starting to find that alignment in my life. Conscious creation is far far far different. When your desires are aligned with your core values and your beliefs about a particular thing are conscious, and you manifest from a place of conscious being, no matter how incredibly small that manifestation is, it is the most beautiful thing in existence to actually be AWARE of your own creation.

For you perhaps, desires is suffering, not for me. For me it's a beautiful tapestry of creation WHEN I find that alignment with JOY. Of course, I can easily create suffering in my own life as well by manifesting an un inspected belief. The key is finding the alignment between the desire and the core belief and bringing them together through attention and intention.

Anyway, thanks for your opinions.
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Re: Desire/Expansion/Joy/Creativity

Postby Fore » Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:33 pm

Whether it is seen as a beautiful creation in alignment with joy or not it must be seen as impermanent by nature, it arises to pass away, no aelf, no control, just masses of sub atomic particles arising and passing very quickly. Any identification with this as me is suffering. This is where a spiritual practice comes into effect, it allows one to feel this attachment being gross or subtle. There is no belief(identificarion) with this when one is momentarily just aware of this phenomenon, the rest of the time there is identification of some kind with this.
You seem to have some idea of what it means to me to practice this spiritually and there is no way for me to explain this to you. You would have to practice the same technique and come to your own understanding. Alignment spiritually to "get something" from this is not what I practice and seems more in line with practices like the secret, which is a very different practice altogether.
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