NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

OBE's, NDE's, lucid dreams, and the like...

Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby rachMiel » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:07 pm

Enlightened2B wrote:I don't think it's our job while we are here to have the entire creation or mystery figured out, but instead, just simply wake up to the realization of what we are NOT, and live our human lives to the highest joy and happiness that we possibly can.

Well, as I said earlier, I think we see eye to eye on this bold part. (I to I?)

Only I don't see it as a job or mission or purpose. That feels like anthropomorphizing to me, attempting to take the mystery out of ... the mystery. I prefer to see living with "the highest joy and happiness that we possibly can" as an existential choice. Do you feed the good wolf, or the bad one?
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby DavidB » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:14 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Spirituality confused the shit out of me for far too long as I wrote in my post above until I realized that most of is pure nonsense.

I'm all about being human these days, and understanding that, it's simply ok.....to just be human, my flaws, imperfections and all. When I'm ok with that, I align with something much greater.


Yes, it is mostly nonsense, and occasionally something resonates, which is nice.

Good for you too E2B, for realizing that being human was all about being human. As long as we continue to believe this nonsense about achieving some higher self or transcendent nonsense, the longer we delude ourselves into thinking we are not already all we need to be right now, perfect and divine, and the longer we suffer unnecessarily. You know there are many spiritual seekers, and so called masters, that haven't ever realized what you have realized, and are still trapped in the enlightenment merry go round. During a conversation, I challenged a Buddhist nun once, and she admitted to me that she felt she hadn't quite made it yet. I just looked her in the eyes and said, "yes you have". She's still a Buddhist nun. Each to their own I guess.

In presence, we realize that we are nothing we think we are, nothing we identify with. We are instead that mysterious knowing witness, the silent, consciously aware presence. Nothing much I can say about that. :)

Also, NDE's, OBE's, psychedelic experiences and the like, are not so much a higher self, but instead an alternate reality, maybe even a higher dimensional experience, where form is less well defined, the laws of physics are much more fluid, like in a dream state for example. No matter how many experiences, levels or dimensions we might climb on our journey however, the center of awareness always remains mysterious and unknown. :)
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby rachMiel » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:32 pm

DavidB wrote:No matter how many experiences, levels or dimensions we might climb on our journey however, the center of awareness always remains mysterious and unknown. :)

We dance round in a ring and suppose,
But the Secret sits in the middle and knows.

— Robert Frost
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:37 pm

DavidB wrote:
Enlightened2B wrote:Spirituality confused the shit out of me for far too long as I wrote in my post above until I realized that most of is pure nonsense.

I'm all about being human these days, and understanding that, it's simply ok.....to just be human, my flaws, imperfections and all. When I'm ok with that, I align with something much greater.


Yes, it is mostly nonsense, and occasionally something resonates, which is nice.

Good for you too E2B, for realizing that being human was all about being human. As long as we continue to believe this nonsense about achieving some higher self or transcendent nonsense, the longer we delude ourselves into thinking we are not already all we need to be right now, perfect and divine, and the longer we suffer unnecessarily. You know there are many spiritual seekers, and so called masters, that haven't ever realized what you have realized, and are still trapped in the enlightenment merry go round. During a conversation, I challenged a Buddhist nun once, and she admitted to me that she felt she hadn't quite made it yet. I just looked her in the eyes and said, "yes you have". She's still a Buddhist nun. Each to their own I guess.


I will say this. One of the bigger detriments to realizing how beautiful we truly are, is the attitude of lack of "I am not enough" and "I am not THERE yet". There are many spiritual teachings and religious teachings of course that reinforce this notion of hierarchical ascension. Ultimately, anyone is free to believe anything they so choose. Even NDE's with a more "human" slant, tend to even follow down this path.

I see expansion as something far far far different than climbing a ladder of ascension towards something that we already are. Yet, I also see great value in the belief itself at the same time, that we ARE something OTHER than this beautiful Pure Being already. It's this necessary contrast of believing we are something ELSE, which allows us to experience and create something from a place of knowing what we ARE. Any desire, any spark in our lives, any passion (we all have them) always stem from something that can mirror that or bounce off of it. That's really what this entire human experience is about I feel. Our perfection is already a given. That was NEVER in question. It's simply a matter of us realizing this perfection, realizing how beautiful we truly are, and putting it into play with this creative tapestry of physical life. We each do it in unique ways.

But, so many of us hate our human aspects. We believe that the imperfections within the human experience are something to be shunned or shamed about and we even feel a strong sense of guilt for feeling the way we do. The practice of self love is a beautiful journey into learning to be OK with being human and when you're OK with being human and you're OK with all of your conditioning and perceived flaws, you realize that you ARE aligning with that greater sense of Being of which we truly are.

One of the funny things about being human is that we LOVE to play games with ourselves and create all sorts of intricate, confusing scenarios about life and how it should or should not be, and after all, it's all just that.....more games we play. Within imagination, anything is ultimately possible. WE as Source, can play any games we so choose. There's nothing ultimately wrong with ANYTHING we think or feel. Life is just a creative exploration. If we would like to believe that we must spend decades and decades in deep deep spiritual practice, that's our choice and we are free to explore that path.

Also, NDE's, OBE's, psychedelic experiences and the like, are not so much a higher self, but instead an alternate reality, maybe even a higher dimensional experience, where form is less well defined, the laws of physics are much more fluid, like in a dream state for example. No matter how many experiences, levels or dimensions we might climb on our journey however, the center of awareness always remains mysterious and unknown. :)


I don't see NDE's or the like as an alternate reality, but more of the TRUE/EXPANDED reality. The way I see this human experience is merely that WE, are just focusing our attention into this limited human vehicle while the more expansive view (that people experience in NDE's and the like) is ALWAYS there already. Everything is always HERE and NOW. All dimensions and the like are NOW. Nothing is out THERE. Everything is simultaneous. We don't actually leave our bodies or go anywhere. It's a misnomer. When we "leave" our bodies, what we are actually doing is that our focus of attention is no longer limited to simply this body.

And those levels you speak of, are not hierarchical as I see it. They are simply more expansive portals of consciousness if we so choose to explore them. Anytime, we unblock a limited belief, and allow, we expand greatly. You know it when that feeling of joy takes over.
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby Fore » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:19 pm

Are you happy e2b, if not that's,where practice can be of benefit. You seem to have some twisted ideas of what a spiritual practice is about. It's not a masochistic torture of denial.
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:34 pm

I don't see where I pointed to "spiritual practice" as a masochistic torture of denial :lol: So, no idea what you are referring to there. But that aside.....

Did you consider that I, myself have my own spiritual practice? I just don't look at it as a form of "work". And thank you for asking, but I am very happy with my life these days.

There are some practices I resonate more with and some that I don't. Simple. Everyone has their own unique way of bringing joy and happiness into their lives. However, you do it, is all that matters.
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby Mystic » Tue Apr 12, 2016 10:21 am

What is our primary responsibility? Our state of consciousness... :D

https://www.eckharttollenow.com/new-hom ... ode=8st0t5

The state of your consciousness is your ultimate responsibility and determines what kind of world you create. A diseased state of consciousness produces a world of disease and dysfunction. There is a deep-seated dysfunction in the human mind, and if there is no shift in consciousness the dysfunction of the mind may destroy us.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9tWUhSa7GM

What is faith? When you see the power of life within you, which is your essence and can fully be who you are, that is faith in action...

At about the 9:30 point of the faith video, Eckhart tolle describes the possible destiny of humans as becoming like the Q of Star Trek Next Generation, but without the big ego of the Star Trek Q... :lol:
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby DavidB » Mon Apr 18, 2016 11:10 am

Number one is to experience fun and excitement, defined in any way we choose. The second thing we’re here for is to remember who we are. The third thing we are here to do is to help others remember who they are.


It's interesting, because Eckhart says that our primary goal is to know the truth of who we are at the deepest level, and everything else is secondary. Eckhart also says, that the World is not here to satisfy us.

So I wonder, are we here to experience "fun and excitement", or are we here to experience adversity, and then find the joy of living regardless?

Is "fun and excitement" comparable to the joy of living? I'm not suggesting that there is anything wrong with fun and excitement of course, I'm only wondering whether fun and excitement are possibly superficial, in comparison to joy and contentment, for example?
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby DavidB » Mon Apr 18, 2016 12:57 pm

What is faith?


Faith literally means, belief without evidence. Not a negative on it's own of course, but without intelligence, faith can be extremely destructive, especially when combined with blind passion.

I suggest, surrendering to what is, or loving what is, a much better expression of emerging intelligence.
“Wisdom is knowing I am nothing, Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.” ― Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Apr 18, 2016 2:23 pm

DavidB wrote:Faith literally means, belief without evidence.

I don't think that this is entirely accurate. It's closer to belief not based on proof. The distinction is that there can be evidence in support of a belief of a type and/or degree that does not rise to the level of established norms of conclusiveness. In other words evidence can suggest something is likely without being conclusive based on some physical standard. One might then adopt a belief based on the available evidence plus some non-physical insight. That insight may or may not be accurate, but it most likely connects some internal dots that support a conclusion in support of what evidence is available. Faith is very creative to experience.

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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby Mystic » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:02 pm

Eckhart Tolle mentioned that the word "faith" as it was used in the description of moving mountains with the faith the size of a grain of mustard seed, has a deeper meaning in the Greek language of the original scriptural writings. The Greek word means something like the essence of life. The English word faith just means belief without proof ...also trust.
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Apr 18, 2016 6:27 pm

DavidB wrote:So I wonder, are we here to experience "fun and excitement", or are we here to experience adversity, and then find the joy of living regardless?

Is "fun and excitement" comparable to the joy of living? I'm not suggesting that there is anything wrong with fun and excitement of course, I'm only wondering whether fun and excitement are possibly superficial, in comparison to joy and contentment, for example?


I don't see them ultimately as different than each other. I'd suggest from a much larger perspective, we are akin to little children with the excitement of exploring a new game and the excitement that incarnating into planet earth brings for us, is just that....akin to little children exploring a fun, new, challenging game.

We come to simply explore through the use of various themes that, we would like to learn more about. Remember that when we try to discuss this stuff, we are approaching this from our human minds which are limited, the notions of fun and excitement might not sit well with us, because it does not match spiritually with our belief systems and that from a much greater perspective, there is a far far far different view on incarnation where we likely mock the silly human views of purpose here on Earth, when in reality, it's just a playground, a giant amusement park and an exploratory realm to learn more about ourselves through the use of contrast, and in turn have an opportunity to embody the love that we are and express it in our own unique ways lovingly to ourselves and to others. Incarnation is an opportunity for expression through contrast. Each of us coming here with an opportunity to express that same Love that we are through our own unique vantage points which is where the creation of desire is formed. Desire is the sole reason we come to Earth. That's the beauty of creation. It IS fun and excitement to us from that larger perspective I would suggest, because it's just an exploration through imagination and we know that when not in body.

I would suggest also that we can do anything we so choose with that game within the confines of our belief structures. Joy and expansion is simply the feelings we get when we are aligned with our true nature. It's our guiding system, our GPS through the course of the game, so that we know we are connecting on the same vibration to our core Self. When we are lost in belief structures, emotional torment, suffering, we are out of alignment with that core vibration and it means our belief structures have created a new vibration for us, which we are now aligning with, which does not match the core vibration of our true Self/Higher Self/Source.

So, Joy is a sign that we are in alignment. Fun and excitement are all there is within a reality of infinite possibilities. There's always something new and fun for us to explore. It's all just imagination and within that imagination is a great thrill and ride for the consciousness that is exploring it. That is why it is exciting for us and most of all FUN....because we know it's not ultimately real.
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:16 pm

I'd like to add one quick point to that post in carrying over where I left off. It's so much easier to have fun, when you know that it is not real, when you KNOW you are eternal, infinite, powerful beings that cannot be harmed because there is no pressure to perform or be something other than what you already are.

Have any of you noticed that in your own lives like I have? When I feel immense pressure to perform, I struggle. But, when I let go, surrender and accept that it's all ok regardless, performing becomes easy in any aspect of life. So, what hinders us as humans from really living and enjoying our lives is the pressure we feel to perform or be a certain way or the dogmatic beliefs we impose onto how life should or should NOT be.

So, the excitement comes from the thrill (literally) of exploring something NEW, where we know that nothing real is going to happen to us while here, although it will absolutely FEEL real while we are here. Yet, when not focused through this body (when not incarnate), our perspective is so far different, because it is exciting to explore a new movie as the actor, or explore a new dollhouse as the person playing the game, when you know it's not real. But, very very scary, when there is pressure believing it IS real. Believing you ARE the actor in the movie of the doll, in the dollhouse.

While here, what is our job? Who's to say? Any idea we give or label we put on this question, is only limiting what our potential is for this human exploration.

Therefore the NDE's three pointers are just a generic view and not in any way written in stone, but a re wording in a less dogmatic manner perhaps:

experience fun and excitement, defined in any way we choose. remember who we are. help others remember who they are.
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby Mystic » Mon Apr 18, 2016 7:23 pm

Are we here just to "have fun and excitement" ?

Seems like an oversimplification...
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Re: NDE-"We are here to experience fun and excitement"

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:12 pm

Please read the context of my reference for fun and excitement and I was referring to the perspective while "not in body" as yes, I would suggest it is highly indicative that human life is merely an exploration of fun and excitement.

I would suggest your doubts Mystic, arise along with many others and my own too at certain points, as the term "over simplification" is the human mind's grasping at some greater purpose as taught in many spiritual traditions. It can't be as simple as that, right? But, what if it was? And what is stopping you from changing your belief about it? Those are the questions I would be asking myself.

I would merely suggest that we are here for the exploration of a particular desire/s that we choose to bring to life, through embodiment and that is what creation is. It's all fun and excitement from the greater perspective again because we know it's only an exploration in infinite imagination. You can create ANY belief you so choose about why you are here and you can bring THAT belief to life like many do. But, ultimately, it won't be any more true outside of the consciousness that keeps the belief alive. I'm sure there is a factor about Planet Earth and we are trying to aid in the awakening process of the planet (I would suggest every single one of us had this in mind when we incarnated) which also plays in to our incarnating here.

From Near Death Experiencer Natalie Sudman:

The realization that enjoyment of an experience is a central criterion for the value of a life surprised me.”


We also came here to experience the difficult emotions because we learn from those and they enrich us in ways that really we can’t get when we are out of body, when we are in our whole selves. If we could get those out there, we wouldn’t be here. From that perspective it’s very exciting to participate in any kind of emotions, and any kind of situation. It’s an adventure. It’s amazing. It’s beautiful…. It’s a miracle.”


My experience is that we are always within and expressions of All That Is which is a beautiful Force of infinity curious and creative energy and awareness. How can we be anything but perfect? We are All That Is just as much as It is us. We are created by It; It creates us. We participate in It; It participates in us. We extend It and It extends us. We are each individual expressions of this single infinite awareness. We are one. And we are each perfect exactly as we are.

“We’re so used to thinking in terms of hierarchies. The healer is more important that the addict. The teacher is more important than the arms dealer. These hierarchies of values are not real. I don’t care how dull, or weird, or messed up we think our lives are here in the physical world, I can assure you that all of us are having a valuable experience. And I don’t care how special we think we are, we are each uniquely special. Every single one of us. Our experience extends and enhances everything that exists. We are each infinity creative beings having an amazing experience just by being here.

“From the perspective out of body, it was understood that it takes some skill to even exist in the physical body, in the physical world. It takes a skill of focus to maintain consciousness within a physical body and then to participate in a collective, cooperative, creative experience of being in this physical world. So we’re all amazing. We’re all jet pilots flying 50 feet off the deck upside down. We are very cool. Just by showing up here, just by showing up.”
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