I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are true

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I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are true

Postby Ervin » Fri Jun 17, 2016 12:28 pm

I like a lot Eckhart's teachings on acceptance and surrender. However, what if Christianity or Islam is true, then Eckhart is pretty much a false prophet.

If we have only one life to get it right, then it's extremely important to to do so.

What are your thoughts on the subject?

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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby dijmart » Fri Jun 17, 2016 10:52 pm

Relax, ET isn't a prophet like you're thinking and his teachings aren't a religion.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:00 am

Do your due diligence. Then follow what feels right.

My sense is that 'God' values integrity. I suggest putting truth above all else. What is the truth? Either you decide, or you let someone else decide for you. There are plenty of people in religions and philosophies very willing to tell you what to believe. But who will be there to take responsibility for your choices when the day of accountability arrives?

Not certain what the truth is? That's probably a good thing. Those who are certain are more likely to be trapped in a limiting belief than they are to be genuinely clear on what our true nature actually is.

Rather than definitive answers, look for greater clarity in life and the nature of our true being. Greater than whatever our understanding is at the moment. Greater clarity is always available no matter what one's level of understanding is. Greater clarity is a life-long opportunity. The wise always leave room for more.

And learn to trust your feelings. They are life's best guides. What feels right in the quiet of your being will lead to the clarity you seek.

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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Mystic » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:29 am

Salvation is not to be found in the form of a teaching but in the direct experience of reality.
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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Onceler » Sun Jun 19, 2016 12:49 pm

I don't believe ETs principles are incapatible with other religions. They can inform and enrich rather than negate.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Ervin » Sun Jun 19, 2016 1:28 pm

THANKS for your replies.

To answer Mystics post. I have had experiences of infinite unconditional( what I thought was unconditional at the time) love, infinite gentlness, all of it. Those experiences I have felt when I needed it the most, which was when I was heaving episodes of mental illness.

To me, they were experiences of God, the Source of all life. But, I have forgotten of the other attributes. That attribute I would call justice and vengance which I have felt in this last episode.

The bottom line is, why would God give us today in the 21at century a better ability to know Him, then he would to the people who lived 3000, 2000, or 1400 years ago?
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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:19 am

Ervin wrote:The bottom line is, why would God give us today in the 21at century a better ability to know Him, then he would to the people who lived 3000, 2000, or 1400 years ago?

The context of such a question suggests that God is some separate entity from us. Consider: we are all God expressed as unique perspectives of conscious being, experiencing this human existence. It's temporary and wonderful for its experiential possibilities.

It is not so much you and I as separate creations from the Creator, but you and I as individualized aspects of a this far greater Consciousness Being exploring life eternal. The possibilities are as varied and endless as the creator's imagination to create. What fun it can be.

Waking up is a process of recognition of who we already and genuinely are. It generally comes slowly like the dawn, hardly noticeable except in retrospect as we unfold consciously. How does if feel to be truly you? That is the key. The more one focuses on that perception, the more it unfolds as experience. So cool.

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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Ervin » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:49 am

So, Webwandere, the demon 's face that I have seen in my mind is because I hold that belief. Yes, you take the medication and it goes away. And the Gods wrath that I felt was me punishing my self. In the middle of that experience, which is demons tormenting me and feeling God's wrath, I have asked for extra medication, because it was frightening .

I am not that much of a masochist, and you know that I am not exactly that innocent.

How would you explain the above?
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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:06 pm

Ervin wrote:In the middle of that experience, which is demons tormenting me and feeling God's wrath, I have asked for extra medication, because it was frightening .

I am not that much of a masochist, and you know that I am not exactly that innocent.

How would you explain the above?

Wrath is a human trait. It's born of a belief in separateness. God is unconditionally loving. Unconditionally, always, forever. There is nothing that you or anyone else can do to undo that. Do you condemn your dream characters for the strange experiences they have. It doesn't happen. You wake up and marvel at the dream experience. Yes it can sometimes be frightening and you wonder how you could believe the things you do in the dream, but upon awakening you put the dream in context of a greater perception of being. God does not condemn us (God's own life extensions) for the experiences we create in this physical world. All those intense, unique experiences ,are the point of living in this human condition. Experience, all experience, has value toward the evolution of consciousness. And that is what we essentially are - consciousness being.

The context of your concern is self made. Don't underestimate your own creative power. That power comes from the same Source as your very own being. Consider deeply what oneness means. You remember that God is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient. The key in those aspects is Omni, or all. If God is all, what room is there for anything else? Is Omni true? Or is it not? Demons then are of God serving a purpose as is all life expressions. As a soul being, you chose a courageous path to experience what you do. It's no small exploration. Don't underestimate its value to life as a whole.

As to demons, they are either not real as in they are imagined, or they are cooperative components in your own chosen experience. Either way the experience is real. Consider, that dreams while imagined, are very real experiences. But when a dream is recognized for what it is we let it go an move on to what is more relevant to consciousness as when physically awake. This physical awakening to our dreams is a living metaphor for the spiritual awakening that is yet to be perceived. Recognizing the dreamy nature of physical life is a first step in that awakening.

If you see demons in waking life, they are likely dreamlike creations. Sometimes the barriers between the dreamworld and the physical breakdown. Drugs and intense focus of attention can open us up to such experiences. But what effect do those demons actually have in your life other than cause you fear? Just like dream monsters, they frighten us, but do us no physical harm. Our fear can drive us to physical harm, but not the visions themselves. A change in experience is simply a choice away. I'm not saying easy, as conditions can have a lot of momentum. A refocus of attention however, born of understanding, can be life changing.

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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Ervin » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:55 pm

Thanks WW, so do you believe in justice? Whether you cease to exist like the belief held by Jehovah's witnesses or Daoists, or you go to hell for some time or forever like in other Christian or Islamic faiths.

I suppose that for a long time there were Sufis in Islam, you have Quakers in Christianity, both believe that everyone will be forgiven.

But if everybody is forgiven, then there is no justice. I used to think that justice is just a pretty name for revenge, but I am not so sure anymore.

I am looking forward to your elaboration on the question of Devine justice, and why do you reject monotheistic traditions, please?

By the way, your views suit me, but how can you be sure, how can I be sure?

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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:12 pm

Ervin wrote:Thanks WW, so do you believe in justice? Whether you cease to exist like the belief held by Jehovah's witnesses or Daoists, or you go to hell for some time or forever like in other Christian or Islamic faiths.

Justice is a curious concept. At its heart is the assumption that there is right and wrong. Right and wrong are judgments of course - human judgments. So who decides what is wrong that must be addressed in terms of justice? Don't we each have our own criteria made up of what causes us some type of pain? Don't we each decide where justice should be applied based on our own consideration of events? Isn't there differences in human terms based on life experience and the environmental conditions in which we live?

Justice is solely a human concept. In order for there to be justice in the larger consciousness reality, our true home, there would have to be judgments of right and wrong. That is simply not the case. The criteria in perceiving experience is based on its value towards the evolution and expansion of consciousness. How can an abused child who is taught to hate by authoritative parents and societies be held accountable and punished for the ideas and beliefs forced fed into their life perspective? Beaten into submission and rewarded for conformity to approved beliefs is hardly a level playing field compared to a child raised in love and appreciation for life. So how does justice apply to such a person so negatively raised?

From a greater consciousness perspective however, all experience has value because it adds an understanding of life only actual experience can offer. So difficult and negative life experiences, to which some believe justice must be applied, are seen in a loving and compassionate appreciation for the sacrifice of pain that was undertaken. There is a greater good that is not easily seen from the human eye view.

Ervin wrote:I suppose that for a long time there were Sufis in Islam, you have Quakers in Christianity, both believe that everyone will be forgiven.

Forgiveness is also a human concept that is misunderstood. There is no forgiveness in the greater consciousness perspective. Because there is no judgment of wrong doing, there is nothing to forgive. There is only unconditional love and appreciation, that all of us will return to, once our human life is complete. Again, it's about value in life experience, not some human standard of right and wrong.

Forgiveness rightly understood is a gift to the forgiver, not the forgiven. When you or I or any human forgives another, it's based in the belief that that other has done something wrong that may be forgiven. The truth is that forgiveness, genuine forgiveness, releases the forgiver from their own constricting judgment that someone did something wrong. Feel it in your own being. Someone hurts you and you are angry and full of blame for this someone. Feel how forgiveness relieves that energy. It frees us from our own constricted feelings born of judgment.

Now apply that same forgiveness to yourself for the judgments of wrong you condemn yourself with. Self-forgiveness (not justification) is one of the most valuable tools we can apply in creating a more loving and enjoyable life for ourselves. And it creates an internal atmosphere of learning from our missteps. Experience is well known to be the best teacher.

Ervin wrote:But if everybody is forgiven, then there is no justice. I used to think that justice is just a pretty name for revenge, but I am not so sure anymore.

There is justice, just not in the way of some external Divine punishment. 'Wrong' doing is its own punishment - and negatively judging others, or self, qualifies as such. ('Wrong' in this context refers to what causes us pain and creates limiting perspectives and experience.) If nearness, or alignment, with 'God' or our true self or greater being, brings us feelings of love and joy; and separation and isolation creates confusion and fear and pain, then 'wrong' applies to the acts that cause that separation and the rest. So justice is the resulting experience for wrong thinking and the choices that lead us away from the alignment that naturally brings us joy.

By the way, your views suit me, but how can you be sure, how can I be sure?

These views suit you because you feel their essential truth. As to being sure, confidence tends to grow with time. The primary requirement is genuineness in your search for truth and a willingness to allow the truth to be what it is, whatever it is. What more can one offer to the Source of all life than one's own integrity in their desire to perceive and act with devotion to, and love for truth? After all, isn't that basis of you're asking?

Continue your exploration. Do so with integrity. Be skeptical, but not cynical. Some of the strangest things in life may seem that way because we don't 'yet' understand. Always leave room to change your perspective in favor of what feels most right. Logic matters, but the elements of logic change as one grows in perspective. Don't get hung up in a logic of limited perspectives. Most everyone's opinion is based in a logic that seems solid to them. Yet beliefs vary widely. All are based on a perceived logic. Feeling, in the quiet of mind, is a surer way to clarity than concepts alone. You're doing well, asking fair and relevant questions. Feel the truth.

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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Pennee101 » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:38 am

Ervin wrote:So, Webwandere, the demon 's face that I have seen in my mind is because I hold that belief. Yes, you take the medication and it goes away. And the Gods wrath that I felt was me punishing my self. In the middle of that experience, which is demons tormenting me and feeling God's wrath, I have asked for extra medication, because it was frightening .

I am not that much of a masochist, and you know that I am not exactly that innocent.

How would you explain the above?


Hi Ervin: I have a mental illness label and because of that I have joined groups with others like me and I have learned a lot about things that are not just my personal experience. Seeing Demons is a favorite hallucination and I believe it has to do with the cultural beliefs. Certain Christian groups teach you that Satan is a live deity that has powers to control a person so when you are in a bad way and start hallucinating is would make sense that your bad hallucinations could include something that you think is a real Satan. I used to be terrified of becoming possessed but at the time I was at a school filled with Southern Baptists who believed this craziness. I was really having panic attacks with intrusive thoughts. If I were in a society that believe that tigers would eat people who are bad I probably would have been terrified that tigers were hunting me.

One thing that I have noticed is some people go into a delusion while in mania of believing they are Jesus Christ. Others go into the delusion that they are possessed by the devil. The church will actually do exorcisms over the ones acting like they are possessed but they just think the ones who believe they are Jesus are delusional. Just look at how much they contribute to this delusion!

Also What ET teaches is not new at all. He says everything in today's words but Buddhism is all about enlightenment. I think most of those religions know these things and the end result of practicing them is enlightenment. Even Jesus said, "The Kingdom of God is within you" There is a BBC documentary called, "Jesus was a Buddhist monk" and it explains how it could be very possible for Jesus to have traveled to India during the years where they are no records of him. Also that belief of having to believe that Jesus is your savior in order to go to Heaven is only about 500 years old. It started with Martin Luther so how can that be true when for 2/3 of the time since Jesus's death no one practiced that "saved by grace" theology? It would mean all those Christians beforehand would have been thrown into Hell. It just does not make sense.

And there is a Buddhist monk named Ajan Braham who has many teachings on Youtube. He actually spoke of a time when he was meditating and a vision of something that could have been described as the devil appeared in front of him. He said he just changed the way the thing looked, made him look all sorts of funny and then laughed at him. It is just all your imagination and you have control of it.
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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Ervin » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:31 pm

Thanks Penny and WW.

Web Wanderer, what's your reason for what seems to be your rejection of Bible or the Quran with its hadith? I have held the same beliefs that you hold, up until this last episode. Have you read the Bible and or the Quran with its hadith? Have you ever considered them?

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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:49 pm

Ervin, I have read the Bible, and in considerable detail. The Koran not so much. I've read a lot of other scripture as well. The Tora, many of the Hindu texts, etc. They all have value in that there is much insight to be gained from their pages. That said, they all have the same limitations. They were all written down by humans, and translated and rewritten by humans, and they all have the fundamental limitation of being an external source of information that religions tout as being an authority superior to all others including one's own inner source.

More, the religious leaders of their respective religions too often claim authority of understanding that their followers must submit to. Life and spirit is simply not that way. There is no external truth superior to what is available through one's own direct inner connection to Source. When that connection is active, and it is available whether we choose to listen to it our not, clarity and insight grows into more and more inclusive understandings.

The reality is that I don't trust scripture. I don't mean to say it's all bunk either, but the debate over what this or that scripture means is endless. I have chosen to find my own way. In doing so, all teachings become available for consideration. And that consideration, in a genuine desire to know what's true, opens the pathways to our inner teacher who is more than wise enough to sort through the confusion.

The language of that inner teacher is feelings. When we are genuine in our interests we know what that genuineness feels like. So when questions arise our answers come in those same 'feels genuine' insights. As humans we have adopted all manor of distorted beliefs about life, right and wrong, and logic based on faulty assumptions. Because of that it can take some time to learn how to read our inner guidance. With our honest focused attention however, it comes.

Our established belief logic can be strong. Fear is its best ally. IE: 'The Bible is true, therefore I will go to hell if I don't follow it.' 'The preacher, priest, rabbi, iman, is a wise leader whom I should trust'. These ideas have been ingrained in us by the people who profit by them. Not so much monetarily, but as authorities. People often crave power. I don't mean to be overly critical of the world's religious teachers. Many are wonderfully loving people. But they, like all the rest of us, are simply living life as their beliefs move them to do. Not one however, will take responsibility, nor should they, for what you or I believe.

We alone are responsible. Knowing that is the path to freedom. So what is the truth? Is life based in love or is it there fear and punishment awaiting? Is God unconditionally loving, or vengeful and angry? Is there more to my being than this human perspective perceives? Can I grow in clarity of life through my inner guidance? Or should I listen and do what others claiming authority tell me is right and wrong?

Genuine consideration is the first step to gaining clearer understanding of these questions. This genuine internal questioning leads to the open doors of our own direct insight. Find some quiet time to sit with the questions. Feel your way beyond the logic of the conditioned mind. External information is still valuable in that it offers us new questions to consider. So explore when its right. Consider when its right. And learn the value of your feelings.

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Re: I fear following ET in case Christianity or Islam are tr

Postby Ervin » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:49 am

OK WW, thanks for your guidance. I am inquiring into a Sufi group over here in Melbourne. I need some discipline and guidance.
I might join again the Eckhart Tolle meditation group, or maybe not.

Anyway, can you please recommend any books that I can read to help my state? I do have scribd app and they do have a good collection of books.

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