Is suicide really a "no" ?

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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:37 am

Enlightened2B wrote:You're asking for something here that simply cannot be given to you by people who don't know you well enough. We each have given our own perspectives on 'suicide' in general. However, NONE of our perspectives would be able to be applied to your situation.

Just from listening to what you are saying, you sound defeated. I know you've mentioned that you've tried therapists. But, I can assure you from my own experience, there are good ones and really shitty ones.

Please explore the potential that there IS another good quality therapist out there for you.

Nope, this is your problem. Look at the words I highlighted. You are not going to get answers from the same place where the problem exists.


This is why I was reluctant to share my story in this thread. I did so only to clarify that I'm not currently suicidal and provided a brief history (perhaps, I shouldn't have). I NEVER intended to solicit answers or a solution to *MY LIFE SITUATION*. I've suffered long enough to know that I'm not going to get magical solutions from strangers on the internet. The fact that you feel the need to tell me I'm not going to get answers here is a bit condescending (as if I am naive enough to expect that from the forum), although I'm sure you didn't intend to come across that way. No biggie, I'm just expressing how your post came across to me.

No, the purpose of this thread was to discuss the general idea of suicide, not as it applies to me or any particular person, but the concept in general. It is a subject rarely discussed, and I have very passionate views about it in general. I wanted to know what others think of it. That's all.

This is NOT a cry for help or a "save me, I'm dying" thread !

Thanks for your thoughts, regardless.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:03 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Consider these questions:

Are you here trapped against your will on this planet? Is life a prison where death is the only way 'home'?

OR

Did you choose to come here to explore human life? To express the uniqueness that is you through a human vehicle?

These aren't questions to look for in the mind. Really sit with each side and feel into it. One of them will likely feel better to you than the other. But, you need to get in a clear space of stillness to weigh the two.


Wow, this is a mind-boggling question, although I realize that the answer lies beyond the mind.

Enlightened2B wrote:And when you're connecting to that passion, LIVING is the only thing that excites us. That's why you came here. Boredom is a sign of disconnection with yourself. I've been there.....trust me.


Sorry, I didn't understand. What is this "passion" exactly ? I know you explained it some, but I didn't get it. I guess your definition is based on what you mentioned earlier about choosing to be here.

Enlightened2B wrote:No, suicide is not a "no", if you understand who you truly are in the greater scheme.....that chose to come here intentionally. That you chose to explore some likely very challenging life experiences simply because of the contrast that it offers. But, suicide would really never be an option, unless you are resisting your own resistance.

Just some points to consider if you choose to.


Ok, let me see if I understand. By resisting the resistance, you mean resisting the ego, right ? Fighting it ?

But see, I don't know if I *chose* any of it.

Why is suicide being equated to resisting the resistance ? Because resisting = killing, and resistance = ego = form ? So, killing the form means resisting the resistance ?

But, if that is indeed what you mean, then, I ask - why is destroying a form seen as resistance ? It probably is in most cases, but what if destroying the form is an action that comes out of a state of stillness (as I suggested in my very first post in this thread) ? Is that still seen as resistance ?

Better yet, what if the form that is being destroyed is that of an unconscious (in ET's words) being ? i.e. a constantly unhappy person. ET constantly talks about the "evolutionary impulse" ... what if bringing an end to an unconscious being is, in fact, beneficial to the whole, and thus, part of that evolution ? Isn't the universe better off with one less unconscious person/being ? Not to mention, that being no longer suffers.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby Onceler » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:20 am

That's a very good question, painbody, and I don't know the answer. I guess each person will have to decide for themselves. It seems that if someone commits suicide for the express purpose of taking their suffering out of the world, It could backfire and the suffering their act would cause on those they left behind would outweigh any benefits.

The reverberations of a suicide on the living and even in subsequent generations is huge.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby dijmart » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:47 am

... what if bringing an end to an unconscious being is, in fact, beneficial to the whole, and thus, part of that evolution ?


I think you may need to reread ET's books. What's beneficial to the whole is when an unconscious being "uses" their suffering to awaken and realizes their true nature (as awareness), then lives from that perspective. The flowering of consciousness.

To give up, throw in the towel is saying "no" to life and "no" to the awakening that could have happened within you. Suffering is a catalyst to awakening. If you had a rosy life, would you have read ET's book to begin with? I know I wouldn't have.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:25 am

Hey PB, I was thinking of writing out a really thorough response, but just don't have the energy tonight. If are interested, feel free to PM me, and I will be glad to provide further, more detailed explanation on my view on 'resistance'.

In the meantime, just to respond to the question about choosing. It's almost impossible for me to explain within the context that I am referring to without you first understanding what in god's name I am even remotely talking about :lol: .

Therefore, only if you are interested, I definitely recommend exploring some near death experiences for a better understanding of what I mean by 'choosing'. It's an area, that while I no longer explore myself (as I've gotten everything I needed out of it I feel for now), I did get an incredible amount of insight in relation to consciousness and why we are here and I still follow the newsletters and emails of certain people who had NDE's.

In the meantime, I will leave you with my alien friend-Bashar (I highly recommend his teachings) who only slightly resembles Dr. Evil for his own view on "choosing" to be here. This is a channel. Darryl Anka is the man who channels Bashar. Keep an open mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAz_FmG7nZA
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:08 am

Onceler wrote:It seems that if someone commits suicide for the express purpose of taking their suffering out of the world, It could backfire and the suffering their act would cause on those they left behind would outweigh any benefits.

The reverberations of a suicide on the living and even in subsequent generations is huge.


That is an intriguing subject in its own right - the effects of suicide on "survivors" ! I'm glad you brought it up.

To rephrase what you're saying, suicide is a selfish act ... ending one's own suffering but passing it on to others. Now, I've thought a lot about this very thing, and my conclusions are as follows ...

1 - Every person is responsible for his/her own happiness/peace. This, I would argue, is ET's core message or the essence of what he teaches ... the kingdom of heaven lies within. It is a heavy enough burden for a person to bring about his/her own happiness. Can a person justly be held responsible for the happiness of many others (survivors)? Or the grief that others feel when he/she simply decides not to go on living in this form ?

2 - If suicide is selfish, what's far more selfish is keeping a person trapped in whatever state/form he/she is (and doesn't want to be in), just so that others don't have to grieve a loss.

I think that suicide, in the cases that I'm interested in (that arise out of stillness) is neither selfish nor selfless, nor does it have to be either.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:18 am

dijmart wrote:
I think you may need to reread ET's books. What's beneficial to the whole is when an unconscious being "uses" their suffering to awaken and realizes their true nature (as awareness), then lives from that perspective. The flowering of consciousness.

To give up, throw in the towel is saying "no" to life and "no" to the awakening that could have happened within you. Suffering is a catalyst to awakening. If you had a rosy life, would you have read ET's book to begin with? I know I wouldn't have.


I understand what you're saying, but no, I don't need to reread his books. I understand what he means by evolutionary impulse quite well. He's saying that suffering has its necessary place in the transformation of consciousness. I get it. Yes, I wouldn't have come across his books without my own share of suffering.

What you described is, yes, one possible path that is aligned with evolution. But, I don't think it is the only possible path.

One can also just as well decide, again, out of total stillness, that the form he/she dwells in, is a negative influence and/or a burden to the whole, and that it is in everyone's best interest that his/her form be destroyed.

As I mentioned in a response to Onceler, let's not get hung up on suicide causing suffering in family/friends who are left behind ... they are responsible for their own happiness.

Furthermore, if there is nothing substantial to be gained from the world of form (because everything in the world of form is fleeting and ultimately illusory), why is it necessary to engage in the play of form ? It's fine to do so, but is that a necessity ? What if, one day, I feel that I have played with form enough, and I don't want to anymore ? In fact, I read a post of yours in which you asked a very similar question, if not the same question. What if I don't wanna be "Diane" anymore ?

Put it another way ... (using "I" just for convenience and illustration, not intending to make this about me) what if I were to die tomorrow ? What would be lost ? A form. Of what consequence is that to the totality ? As ET often puts it, the one consciousness will continue to manifest in different forms, it will "move through other channels". What if those other channels are better and could do better for the totality than I ever could or would ?
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Wed Jan 04, 2017 9:25 am

Enlightened2B wrote:Hey PB, I was thinking of writing out a really thorough response, but just don't have the energy tonight. If are interested, feel free to PM me, and I will be glad to provide further, more detailed explanation on my view on 'resistance'.

In the meantime, just to respond to the question about choosing. It's almost impossible for me to explain within the context that I am referring to without you first understanding what in god's name I am even remotely talking about :lol: .

Therefore, only if you are interested, I definitely recommend exploring some near death experiences for a better understanding of what I mean by 'choosing'. It's an area, that while I no longer explore myself (as I've gotten everything I needed out of it I feel for now), I did get an incredible amount of insight in relation to consciousness and why we are here and I still follow the newsletters and emails of certain people who had NDE's.

In the meantime, I will leave you with my alien friend-Bashar (I highly recommend his teachings) who only slightly resembles Dr. Evil for his own view on "choosing" to be here. This is a channel. Darryl Anka is the man who channels Bashar. Keep an open mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAz_FmG7nZA


Thanks E2B (sounds like a company I worked for).

Feel free to share whatever you'd like to. But, I would prefer that you post it here, so that everyone may benefit from your thoughts.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby dijmart » Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:13 pm

PainBody said-

In fact, I read a post of yours in which you asked a very similar question, if not the same question. What if I don't wanna be "Diane" anymore ?


If you're going to use my real name, it's Diana, not Diane. Anyways, the thread was "Tired of the play" from 3 years ago, not, "What if I don't want to be Diana anymore". That thread was not very similiar to this thread, imo. It had nothing to do with suicide, it had to do with being "tired", very "tired"...literally exhausted and being tired of experience (which brought further exhaustion). I have multiple sclerosis and I'm on several heavy duty medications, so sometimes just walking up a flight of stairs is tiring.
If you read the whole thread, in less then a month I was fine. I wasn't suicidal.

You seem to be damn certain that your life is not worth living anymore. I've tried to convince you that your thinking is faulty, but you have a rebuttal for everything. It seems you've made your mind up, so what's left to discuss?

You don't want to hear about therapy or medication or the impact suicide would make on family/friends or how you could use the suffering to awaken, etc.

So, basically, you just want someone to agree with you. That you and the world would be better off if you were dead. Well, I'm not going to...
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby dijmart » Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:36 pm

Also, I don't believe for a second that this thread isn't about you, it absolutely is about you. It's about you and what you plan or don't plan to do in the future about killing yourself. You say it isn't about you, to try to steer people away from giving you "personal" advice and stick to the topic at hand, but I see right through that...
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:18 pm

dijmart wrote:
PainBody said-

In fact, I read a post of yours in which you asked a very similar question, if not the same question. What if I don't wanna be "Diane" anymore ?


If you're going to use my real name, it's Diana, not Diane. Anyways, the thread was "Tired of the play" from 3 years ago, not, "What if I don't want to be Diana anymore". That thread was not very similiar to this thread, imo. It had nothing to do with suicide, it had to do with being "tired", very "tired"...literally exhausted and being tired of experience (which brought further exhaustion). I have multiple sclerosis and I'm on several heavy duty medications, so sometimes just walking up a flight of stairs is tiring.
If you read the whole thread, in less then a month I was fine. I wasn't suicidal.


Sorry for butchering your name. I was going off my memory, which seems to be fading ... not as sharp as before. And, not to argue, but being tired of experience is really not that dissimilar from suicide. Being tired, had enough, etc.

We all have our reasons for being tired. I have my own reasons, and as for them being good enough, I really do believe what I have in my signature (which is my own quote). My reasons (or my situation) have nothing to do with this thread ... perhaps only that I'm interested in this subject ... I won't deny that I probably wouldn't have had the motivation to post this thread otherwise. But, asking for answers here ? God, no.

Not sure if you remember my intro here (2nd one), but I'm a non-conformist/idealist. I LOVE to discuss topics that aren't on CNN, aren't on NPR, aren't the stuff of cocktail parties ... I like to contemplate stuff that really matters but that often gets swept under the rug. And yes, I am fascinated by the general subject of suicide, and all the complexities/simplicities surrounding it. I wanted to get an idea of what others have to say in this regard.

Anyway, I understand why this thread frustrates you. But, really, I just wish that ET talked about this subject more. Then, I probably wouldn't have brought it up here.

I always like hearing from you, and appreciate your input, even if I don't always provide a direct response (that just means I'm too lazy/tired/don't know how to respond). But, if this thread doesn't interest you anymore, I'll understand.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby dijmart » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:18 pm

So, "what if" the life you're leading that's causes you so much suffering was your karma from a past life?

Not that you are the "same" person (that would take to much explanation from the Vedanta view to begin to explain here). But, let's just say, it is "your" karma to work out here in this life?

If you were to end your life prematurely, it would be safe to say, from that point of view, that your "unresolved" karma, then "new" karma from a suicide would roll into one big, nasty, negative karmic account. Could you imagine the suffering then in the next life?

Still working from this perspective, what if your life now IS working out karma from a past suicide, that you will relive..over and over..until you make different choices...the choice to live, over come the suffering and not die at your own hands?
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby Enlightened2B » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:35 pm

PB, I will consider writing out my perspective on 'resistance' at a later time either here or in another thread.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:40 am

dijmart wrote:So, "what if" the life you're leading that's causes you so much suffering was your karma from a past life?


With all due respect, dij, this discussion has morphed into something I didn't intend to start here in this thread (or anywhere, for that matter). At least, it seems to have ? This is not about solutions to my personal problems.

If you want, we can discuss this privately. Alternatively, if, as you said before, there's nothing left to discuss, then, let's consider this particular discussion closed.

The thread remains open, of course, for the more general discussion.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby dijmart » Thu Jan 05, 2017 4:56 am

painBody wrote:
dijmart wrote:So, "what if" the life you're leading that's causes you so much suffering was your karma from a past life?


With all due respect, dij, this discussion has morphed into something I didn't intend to start here in this thread (or anywhere, for that matter). At least, it seems to have ? This is not about solutions to my personal problems.

If you want, we can discuss this privately. Alternatively, if, as you said before, there's nothing left to discuss, then, let's consider this particular discussion closed.

The thread remains open, of course, for the more general discussion.


Ok, so, depersonalize my post, why dismiss it? Let's not say, "you" (PB) and say, "any person who chooses suicide" (for the reasons you've stipulated, of course). Taking "you" out of the equation. I still say that what I said is valid as a perspective to be considered.
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