Two matters that have been touched upon several times

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Two matters that have been touched upon several times

Postby Avager » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:20 pm

Hello everyone!

I am currently reading the book The Law of Attraction by Esther and Jerry Hicks.
Besides of all the usual way of speaking that "if you really want something, you will get it" that most of the successful people in life use, I've also seen The Secret on Youtube, and that's all of the material I've been in touch with on The law of Attraction.

Now, I've got two questions that are bothering me way to much to not start this topic and ask you about it. Those are matters that have been brought up several times, and even though I somehow see the truth in it, I just cannot comprehend it. It feels like

Question numer one:
Since I just started the book (and maybe it will be explained later, but it wasn't explained in The Secret) I feel aversion towards the "you attract what you think about" concept. Of course, I can see it in everyday life - people who have the attitude "I can manage with whatever I want to" often do, people who think they are destined to be poor and beg on the street often do so for their whole life, people who think that "being mediocre" is a normal way of living and "successful people" are some kind of special people etc etc.

Though... there are just to many things that go against it.
I will give you two examples:
I've really badly wanted to go to a festival (Tomorrowland) for five years in a row now. Getting tickets to this festival is an extreme hard thing, it is a chance of like 1 in 100 000. I've NEVER got the tickets. Even though it has basically been my biggest plan for the summer and I've wanted it to happen every year, I've been hoping, I've been preparing several computers to have the highest chance, and no. Does this mean that I should have wanted to go even more? Do you hear how this sound for me, when this was basically what I wanted the most for several years?

And the second example:
Since according to the sources that speak about LoA, if you unconsciously think about bad things, they will happen to you to.
With that logic, does that mean that all the jews during the holocaust unconsciously wanted to suffer, be put into camps and be murdered?


Question number two:
And here is the matter that has been brought up several times aswel. This will maybe be explained in the book I am reading now, since it, unlike The Secret have a kind of spiritual angle on it.
The Power of Now vs Law of Attraction.
Sometimes when I clear my thoughts and not think, just feel, I can understand it.

But I still find it contradictory. As I understand I should me go around and thinking about what I want (for example, I want good results at my work) and then it will manifest. But according to Tolle, I am then thinking about the future from the perspective of the Ego, where I create an illusionary "better" me (better according to the ego).


Thank you for you answer and I wish you all to be happy :)
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Re: Two matters that have been touched upon several times

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:02 pm

It's not so much about what you want and what you think. It's about what you believe. LoA revolves around conscious vibration. What you believe is the foundation of that vibration. You can want to sprout wings and fly to the moon, and you can think about it all you want. But what do you actually believe about it?

Consider this:
I've really badly wanted to go to a festival (Tomorrowland) for five years in a row now. Getting tickets to this festival is an extreme hard thing, it is a chance of like 1 in 100 000. I've NEVER got the tickets.

Do you see the evidence of your underlying belief about getting tickets? How your belief about not getting them is more entrenched than your belief that you will? Look at your emphasis on how small your chances are and that you NEVER got tickets. That is what you are fueling in your belief about getting tickets.

To the degree that thinking creates belief it can effect change. But too often desire and affirmations are mixed with an undercurrent of fear which reflects one's true belief. Thought and desire must be clear and free of fear to create attraction. Otherwise Fear is the controlling factor. Remember this old saw, "that which I feared most has come upon me".

Since according to the sources that speak about LoA, if you unconsciously think about bad things, they will happen to you to. With that logic, does that mean that all the jews during the holocaust unconsciously wanted to suffer, be put into camps and be murdered?

There's more complexity here than I can clearly get my head around, but here's my sense of it. As the Nazis gained power and began persecuting the Jews, their fear began to rise and contributed to the attraction of ever increasing persecution. Meanwhile the Nazi belief in their own superiority contributed to their imagined right to 'cleans' the world of supposed lessor beings. Of course this is simplistic in the extreme on my part, but I offer it only as a consideration for understanding how such a crime could manifest under LoA.

Sometimes when I clear my thoughts and not think, just feel, I can understand it.

This is good stuff. Our feeling nature is our guide to truth and clarity. That includes our emotions although their role is a bit different. Emotions reflect the quality of our alignment with our true nature. For example emotional pain indicates a thought vibration out of alignment, while joy and appreciation is indicative of closer in alignment. There's no right or wrong in any of it, only exploration and experience. Clarity and insight are manifest through feeling our way to inclusiveness and acceptance. Words are then added for the sake of mental structures that form beliefs.

There is obviously much more to LoA than this, but it's enough to consider and build upon.

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Re: Two matters that have been touched upon several times

Postby Avager » Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:27 pm

Webwanderer wrote:It's not so much about what you want and what you think. It's about what you believe. LoA revolves around conscious vibration. What you believe is the foundation of that vibration. You can want to sprout wings and fly to the moon, and you can think about it all you want. But what do you actually believe about it?

Consider this:
I've really badly wanted to go to a festival (Tomorrowland) for five years in a row now. Getting tickets to this festival is an extreme hard thing, it is a chance of like 1 in 100 000. I've NEVER got the tickets.

Do you see the evidence of your underlying belief about getting tickets? How your belief about not getting them is more entrenched than your belief that you will? Look at your emphasis on how small your chances are and that you NEVER got tickets. That is what you are fueling in your belief about getting tickets.

To the degree that thinking creates belief it can effect change. But too often desire and affirmations are mixed with an undercurrent of fear which reflects one's true belief. Thought and desire must be clear and free of fear to create attraction. Otherwise Fear is the controlling factor. Remember this old saw, "that which I feared most has come upon me".


According to LoA or PoW, or any other spiritual guide, my decisions should come from my intuition, meaning that if I think "I want to do this", I should feel it and I will know if the action is right or wrong.
When I try to think "I will get tickets", there comes an emotion inside of me that is clearly negative. I cannot describe what kind of emotion it is, but it is clearly negative. Should I just stay conscious of that emotion and accept it, while continue to think the thought? If I get that emotion, which means that this is my core belief, how should I "believe" something else and start to create another vibration about a situation?

I am extremely confused right now.

Webwanderer wrote:
Since according to the sources that speak about LoA, if you unconsciously think about bad things, they will happen to you to. With that logic, does that mean that all the jews during the holocaust unconsciously wanted to suffer, be put into camps and be murdered?

There's more complexity here than I can clearly get my head around, but here's my sense of it. As the Nazis gained power and began persecuting the Jews, their fear began to rise and contributed to the attraction of ever increasing persecution. Meanwhile the Nazi belief in their own superiority contributed to their imagined right to 'cleans' the world of supposed lessor beings. Of course this is simplistic in the extreme on my part, but I offer it only as a consideration for understanding how such a crime could manifest under LoA.



But still, then why did a force that wanted to destroy a whole population want rise in power in that case?

I can clearly see what you are pointing at in this case, since if for example the Jews felt misplaced and not wanted in a community, they fear may have grown stronger and created an opposing force. Though, did the first mistrusting Nazis (or, the people who became Nazis) arise from some Jewish people being afraid and then creating a force they are afraid of?
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Re: Two matters that have been touched upon several times

Postby Onceler » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:52 pm

I think WW is right about fear driving much of our experience. Here's a question: if you lost your fear would you continue to desire the same things? Would your desires changes to something else?

I have reason to believe that my fear driven desires, thought, emotions are largely diminished. I find I am more satisfied with what I have and if I want something, it's often within easy reach.

I might diverge a bit from WW in that I am a fan of reason and thought. I have experienced that a clear mind can reason efficiently, discern truth from fiction, and see the clarity of situations. Not to say there's no room for emotional intuition, but I believe emotions and reason work closely together in finding solutions to problems and deciding a course of action.
Be present, be pleasant.
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Re: Two matters that have been touched upon several times

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:35 pm

Onceler wrote:I might diverge a bit from WW in that I am a fan of reason and thought. I have experienced that a clear mind can reason efficiently, discern truth from fiction, and see the clarity of situations.

While I agree with your take here, and I fully support the value of one's reasoning and thought processes, one may also see that the Nazi's attempt at exterminating certain segments of their population was based on reason and thought - at least in their eyes. Call it justification. We all do it to some degree in our life where bias is present. I think it likely however, that in order to make their case for such genocide, they had to suppress their deeper feelings in favor of an emotional fervor.

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Re: Two matters that have been touched upon several times

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:07 am

Avager wrote:When I try to think "I will get tickets", there comes an emotion inside of me that is clearly negative. I cannot describe what kind of emotion it is, but it is clearly negative. Should I just stay conscious of that emotion and accept it, while continue to think the thought? If I get that emotion, which means that this is my core belief, how should I "believe" something else and start to create another vibration about a situation?

Onceler points out a key word in how to relate to present conditions. Adopt an attitude of satisfaction with how things are. If you are satisfied, then you are not resistant and therefore not fearful that conditions will not change. Sit for a bit and practice satisfaction with how things are. It's not a word game, it's how you genuinely feel. It's going to be restrictive in the LoA creative process if you are in judgment of how things are. In fact, as the universe does not know the quality of 'no', the attention to how things are, negative or positive, is creative to its continued existence.

Finding a true feeling of satisfaction however, releaves attention so that it may be applied to areas of greater preference. Here's a suggestion of how to proceed. Use your imagination. Imagine how much fun it would be to have the tickets and be at the concert. See it, feel the emotions of actually being there. Have some fun with it but don't invest any concern that it won't happen. That's where satisfaction with how things are comes in again. Be satisfied with however things are so you don't get in your own way of creation. Your emotions will guide you. If you feel disappointed, then you are not satisfied. It's a red flag that tells there is yet work to be done on satisfaction.

You can have fun with imagination while being satisfied with life as it is. There is much in the Spiritual perspective on life that says God/Source imagined the physical universe into experiential reality. So if this is the way God/Source does it, and we are extensions of God/Source, then the template for creating experience is set.

But still, then why did a force that wanted to destroy a whole population want rise in power in that case?


Well it may seem a bit trite, but my sense is that from a Greater Perspective Reality, there is value in that kind of experience toward the expansion of Consciousness and Being. Contrast brings desire for better life experiences. You have to take the long view to get any clarity here. What do they say about it being hard to remember the point of draining the swamp when your up to your ass in alligators?

Though, did the first mistrusting Nazis (or, the people who became Nazis) arise from some Jewish people being afraid and then creating a force they are afraid of?

Possibly. But to get too detailed about cause and effect is just speculation. Like I said, it's more complex than I can get my logical and reasoning head around.

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Re: Two matters that have been touched upon several times

Postby Avager » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:55 am

Webwanderer wrote:
Avager wrote:When I try to think "I will get tickets", there comes an emotion inside of me that is clearly negative. I cannot describe what kind of emotion it is, but it is clearly negative. Should I just stay conscious of that emotion and accept it, while continue to think the thought? If I get that emotion, which means that this is my core belief, how should I "believe" something else and start to create another vibration about a situation?

Onceler points out a key word in how to relate to present conditions. Adopt an attitude of satisfaction with how things are. If you are satisfied, then you are not resistant and therefore not fearful that conditions will not change. Sit for a bit and practice satisfaction with how things are. It's not a word game, it's how you genuinely feel. It's going to be restrictive in the LoA creative process if you are in judgment of how things are. In fact, as the universe does not know the quality of 'no', the attention to how things are, negative or positive, is creative to its continued existence.

Finding a true feeling of satisfaction however, releaves attention so that it may be applied to areas of greater preference. Here's a suggestion of how to proceed. Use your imagination. Imagine how much fun it would be to have the tickets and be at the concert. See it, feel the emotions of actually being there. Have some fun with it but don't invest any concern that it won't happen. That's where satisfaction with how things are comes in again. Be satisfied with however things are so you don't get in your own way of creation. Your emotions will guide you. If you feel disappointed, then you are not satisfied. It's a red flag that tells there is yet work to be done on satisfaction.

You can have fun with imagination while being satisfied with life as it is. There is much in the Spiritual perspective on life that says God/Source imagined the physical universe into experiential reality. So if this is the way God/Source does it, and we are extensions of God/Source, then the template for creating experience is set.



Are you basically talking about visualisation (I think that's the right english word)?
You mean creating images and feelings about a certain situation, but then still, surrendering for what's in the moment right now?
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Re: Two matters that have been touched upon several times

Postby Webwanderer » Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:51 am

Avager wrote:Are you basically talking about visualisation (I think that's the right english word)?
You mean creating images and feelings about a certain situation, but then still, surrendering for what's in the moment right now?

I'm not particularly fond of the word 'surrender'. Leans too much toward giving up in my perspective. I prefer acceptance, mostly because it feels more inclusive. Satisfaction, to me, is acceptance with a quality of approval. If you're not clear on the English language you may want to explore some dictionary definitions.

Imagination is much like visualization. But for me, visualization is mostly forming mental pictures, while imagining is exploring those mental pictures with feeling and sensation as if they were real. There's no requirement for outcome with imagining, only for the joy of feeling the experience. Again, if you don't feel satisfied with life as it currently is (it is your creation) then you are likely fueling its continued existence.

Say you had a picture puzzle with a thousand pieces. Consider the feeling of satisfaction you get when it's complete. That's the present as it is. There's no need to lament what the picture looks like. It's complete and that's what matters. Now you are free to imagine what a new puzzle might look like when it's complete. Hold the vision and life will begin to supply the pieces. Some assembly may still be required.

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Re: Two matters that have been touched upon several times

Postby meetjoeblack » Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:47 am

Avager wrote:Hello everyone!

Question number two:
And here is the matter that has been brought up several times aswel. This will maybe be explained in the book I am reading now, since it, unlike The Secret have a kind of spiritual angle on it.
The Power of Now vs Law of Attraction.
Sometimes when I clear my thoughts and not think, just feel, I can understand it.

But I still find it contradictory. As I understand I should me go around and thinking about what I want (for example, I want good results at my work) and then it will manifest. But according to Tolle, I am then thinking about the future from the perspective of the Ego, where I create an illusionary "better" me (better according to the ego).


Thank you for you answer and I wish you all to be happy :)


That is because it is contradictory. It is paradoxical.

It is hard to comprehend. I am about to ask a topic of contentment and fulfillment. To be content, to aspire to add value, reach a dream or goal, and fulfillment without chasing phantoms. I think we see it, like a vision, act as though we already have achieved it, live it, and allow it to manifest. I read Reality Transurfing and it speaks of entering onto life tracks that materialize things into being. The manifested and unmanifested are like looking into a mirror. The manifested is the physical realm. The unmanifested is the vision. For you, the vision can be clear, tangible in your mind, untangible in the unmanfested realm.

Chasing it or being rigid adds in too much thought potential causing a disruption. It has the opposite affect. The unmanfested takes more time which is all an illusion since, past, present, and future are all happening in the 'now.' The way of reality transfuring is letting the unmanifested manifest. Doing everything in your power to make it happen, living as though it is, acknowledging the paradox, the contradictions, having a vision, executing, and letting it come into being.
Still, I have trouble with the paradox of being content in the moment and seeking fulfillment.
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