Ervin wrote:Thanks WW, so do you believe in justice? Whether you cease to exist like the belief held by Jehovah's witnesses or Daoists, or you go to hell for some time or forever like in other Christian or Islamic faiths.
Justice is a curious concept. At its heart is the assumption that there is right and wrong. Right and wrong are judgments of course - human judgments. So who decides what is wrong that must be addressed in terms of justice? Don't we each have our own criteria made up of what causes us some type of pain? Don't we each decide where justice should be applied based on our own consideration of events? Isn't there differences in human terms based on life experience and the environmental conditions in which we live?
Justice is solely a human concept. In order for there to be justice in the larger consciousness reality, our true home, there would have to be judgments of right and wrong. That is simply not the case. The criteria in perceiving experience is based on its value towards the evolution and expansion of consciousness. How can an abused child who is taught to hate by authoritative parents and societies be held accountable and punished for the ideas and beliefs forced fed into their life perspective? Beaten into submission and rewarded for conformity to approved beliefs is hardly a level playing field compared to a child raised in love and appreciation for life. So how does justice apply to such a person so negatively raised?
From a greater consciousness perspective however, all experience has value because it adds an understanding of life only actual experience can offer. So difficult and negative life experiences, to which some believe justice must be applied, are seen in a loving and compassionate appreciation for the sacrifice of pain that was undertaken. There is a greater good that is not easily seen from the human eye view.
I suppose that for a long time there were Sufis in Islam, you have Quakers in Christianity, both believe that everyone will be forgiven.
Forgiveness is also a human concept that is misunderstood. There is no forgiveness in the greater consciousness perspective. Because there is no judgment of wrong doing, there is nothing to forgive. There is only unconditional love and appreciation, that all of us will return to, once our human life is complete. Again, it's about value in life experience, not some human standard of right and wrong.
Forgiveness rightly understood is a gift to the forgiver, not the forgiven. When you or I or any human forgives another, it's based in the belief that that other has done something wrong that may be forgiven. The truth is that forgiveness, genuine forgiveness, releases the forgiver from their own constricting judgment that someone did something wrong. Feel it in your own being. Someone hurts you and you are angry and full of blame for this someone. Feel how forgiveness relieves that energy. It frees us from our own constricted feelings born of judgment.
Now apply that same forgiveness to yourself for the judgments of wrong you condemn yourself with. Self-forgiveness (not justification) is one of the most valuable tools we can apply in creating a more loving and enjoyable life for ourselves. And it creates an internal atmosphere of learning from our missteps. Experience is well known to be the best teacher.
Ervin wrote:But if everybody is forgiven, then there is no justice. I used to think that justice is just a pretty name for revenge, but I am not so sure anymore.
There is justice, just not in the way of some external Divine punishment. 'Wrong' doing is its own punishment - and negatively judging others, or self, qualifies as such. ('Wrong' in this context refers to what causes us pain and creates limiting perspectives and experience.)
If nearness, or alignment, with 'God' or our true self or greater being, brings us feelings of love and joy; and separation and isolation creates confusion and fear and pain, then 'wrong' applies to the acts that cause that separation and the rest. So justice is the resulting experience for wrong thinking and the choices that lead us away from the alignment that naturally brings us joy.
By the way, your views suit me, but how can you be sure, how can I be sure?
These views suit you because you feel
their essential truth. As to being sure, confidence tends to grow with time. The primary requirement is genuineness in your search for truth and a willingness to allow the truth to be what it is, whatever it is. What more can one offer to the Source of all life than one's own integrity in their desire to perceive and act with devotion to, and love for truth? After all, isn't that basis of you're asking?
Continue your exploration. Do so with integrity. Be skeptical, but not cynical. Some of the strangest things in life may seem that way because we don't 'yet' understand. Always leave room to change your perspective in favor of what feels
most right. Logic matters, but the elements of logic change as one grows in perspective. Don't get hung up in a logic of limited perspectives. Most everyone's opinion is based in a logic that seems solid to them. Yet beliefs vary widely. All are based on a perceived logic. Feeling, in the quiet of mind, is a surer way to clarity than concepts alone. You're doing well, asking fair and relevant questions. Feel the truth.