if i cant think myself free

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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby Webwanderer » Fri May 19, 2017 10:25 pm

right now i'm aware that I am aware but my mind keeps interrupting that...guess I should rephrase that to I am aware that I am the awareness...so in spiritual terms what would that state be called?..exactly what is the awareness that I am aware of called? ..my true self?


The problem with labels is that they are more often than not limiting identifiers. I suggest simply feeling the nature of awareness without the labels. It becomes less contextual and more present being oriented. Rather than 'look what I've identified' to 'I am consciousness being...'

WW
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby dijmart » Fri May 19, 2017 10:56 pm

Right now i'm aware that I am aware but my mind keeps interrupting that


That's okay...notice the "gaps" between the interuptions.

..guess I should rephrase that to I am aware that I am the awareness.


Saying "the" awareness may signify that you are seeing awareness as an object apart/ separate from you. Which if that's the case, is pretty normal in the beginning of inquiry. Including "I am" to it shows that you, at least logically, can understand that it is somehow you. The statement "I am awareness" and knowing/ realizing it IS you and what that means comes eventually.

so in spiritual terms what would that state be called?


Apprehending your true nature is not a "state" of mind. Who you truly are is who notices states of mind. You can say you are "awakening" or something like that.

....exactly what is the awareness that I am aware of called? ..my true self?


The "Self" (capital "S"), your true Self or nature, awareness/consciousness, Brahman.

I wrote this quickly as I'm getting off work soon.... I made a few presumptions about where you are with your inquiry. Feel free to set me straight if I'm incorrect! :)
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby logan65 » Sat May 20, 2017 5:15 am

Webwanderer wrote:
right now i'm aware that I am aware but my mind keeps interrupting that...guess I should rephrase that to I am aware that I am the awareness...so in spiritual terms what would that state be called?..exactly what is the awareness that I am aware of called? ..my true self?


The problem with labels is that they are more often than not limiting identifiers. I suggest simply feeling the nature of awareness without the labels. It becomes less contextual and more present being oriented. Rather than 'look what I've identified' to 'I am consciousness being...'

WW
that's true ww cause I keep goin back to the mind to try and figure stuff out.
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby logan65 » Sat May 20, 2017 5:17 am

dijmart wrote:
Right now i'm aware that I am aware but my mind keeps interrupting that


That's okay...notice the "gaps" between the interuptions.

..guess I should rephrase that to I am aware that I am the awareness.


Saying "the" awareness may signify that you are seeing awareness as an object apart/ separate from you. Which if that's the case, is pretty normal in the beginning of inquiry. Including "I am" to it shows that you, at least logically, can understand that it is somehow you. The statement "I am awareness" and knowing/ realizing it IS you and what that means comes eventually.

so in spiritual terms what would that state be called?


Apprehending your true nature is not a "state" of mind. Who you truly are is who notices states of mind. You can say you are "awakening" or something like that.

....exactly what is the awareness that I am aware of called? ..my true self?


The "Self" (capital "S"), your true Self or nature, awareness/consciousness, Brahman.

I wrote this quickly as I'm getting off work soon.... I made a few presumptions about where you are with your inquiry. Feel free to set me straight if I'm incorrect! :)
if my true self is the awareness, then what is it that is being aware of said awareness?
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby dijmart » Sat May 20, 2017 5:46 am

if my true self is the awareness, then what is it that is being aware of said awareness?


The recognition/apprehension happens within the intellect, an aspect/function of the mind. Self-realization is an experience that happens within the mind from a thought of limitlessness that happens within the intellect. You realize your true nature as limitless conscious existence.
This, however is not pure awareness itself, but a reflection of awareness within a clear/still mind. For all intensive purposes though a refection is as good as the original. Like the sun reflecting in a clear still pond.

One way you can get to this though is by intense inquiry. By neti-neti your way to understanding there is no thing left but you, the witness/awareness. So, I'm not the world, I'm not the body, I'm not my mind, I'm not my thought, feelings, emotions, sensations...I'm the knower OF these things. So, yes, you use thought (inquiry) to get beyond thought. So, by all means use your mind. You can't clear doubts or understand without using thought, just realize you are not your thoughts. The mind has the capacity to witness, as well as know it's own content. What enlivens and enlightens the mind is pure awareness, otherwise it is an inert object.

Self-actualization is the unshakable conviction that your true nature is limitless conscious existence. This conviction occurs as the result of nididhyasana, which is a process of continuous meditation on the teachings of Vedanta.
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby logan65 » Sat May 20, 2017 2:22 pm

dijmart wrote:
if my true self is the awareness, then what is it that is being aware of said awareness?


The recognition/apprehension happens within the intellect, an aspect/function of the mind. Self-realization is an experience that happens within the mind from a thought of limitlessness that happens within the intellect. You realize your true nature as limitless conscious existence.
This, however is not pure awareness itself, but a reflection of awareness within a clear/still mind. For all intensive purposes though a refection is as good as the original. Like the sun reflecting in a clear still pond.

One way you can get to this though is by intense inquiry. By neti-neti your way to understanding there is no thing left but you, the witness/awareness. So, I'm not the world, I'm not the body, I'm not my mind, I'm not my thought, feelings, emotions, sensations...I'm the knower OF these things. So, yes, you use thought (inquiry) to get beyond thought. So, by all means use your mind. You can't clear doubts or understand without using thought, just realize you are not your thoughts. The mind has the capacity to witness, as well as know it's own content. What enlivens and enlightens the mind is pure awareness, otherwise it is an inert object.

Self-actualization is the unshakable conviction that your true nature is limitless conscious existence. This conviction occurs as the result of nididhyasana, which is a process of continuous meditation on the teachings of Vedanta.
hmmm...Is that plus tax?...lol
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby dijmart » Sat May 20, 2017 3:21 pm

hmmm...Is that plus tax?...lol


Is that your way of saying you don't understand?
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby dijmart » Sat May 20, 2017 5:57 pm

Only the feeling "I am", though in the World,
is not of the World nor can be denied.

A reflection of the watcher in the mind creates the sense of "I" and the person acquires an apparently independent existence. In reality there is no person, only the watcher identifying himself with the "I" and the "mine". The teacher tells the watcher: you are not this, there is nothing of yours in this, except the little point of "I am", which is the bridge between the watcher and his dream. "I am this, I am that" is dream, while pure "I am" has the stamp of reality on it. (343)


Nisargadatta maharaj
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby logan65 » Tue May 23, 2017 3:56 pm

is that like gravy on yer mashed potatoes?..lol...yes you lost me but i'm readin power of now and david Hawkins letting go soooo
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby Admiral Akmir » Tue May 23, 2017 8:16 pm

I think a lot of people, probably most people, come to The Power of Now from a place of suffering. They are in pain, and want to feel better, and the power of now seems like a solution.

Ironically, the harder you try to change, the more you realize that you can't. Often times the mind will latch on to these new teachings, and try to become a new version your yourself. The result can be that you start to feel guilty or frustrated at the fact that you still feel sad, still feel angry, and still suffer. You've read the teachings, you have the tools, but they're not working, and in a way, this can feel even worse than the initial suffering.

You can't think yourself free because the solution is not in thought.

You try to clear your mind, but things keep popping up. Again, this goes back to the original trap that I highlighted; you want to change, and have developed an idea of what you want to be, and whenever you fall short of this expectation, you feel frustrated and disappointed.

There are a number of things to consider about the power of now, and the teachings in general;

1) There is a difference between seeing your thoughts, and participating in them. You may hold your hand under a running hot faucet, and when you take your hand away it still burns. But if you do not put your hand in the hot water again, eventually the pain subsides. When a thought pops up, you can observe that it's there, but not engage in it. What is this space that you can observe the thought from? Often times I imagine things that happened in the past, especially instances where people have hurt me. It's so easy to put myself back in that situation and imagine what I could have said, or what I want to say to them. In this case I am participating in this thought and have been whisked away into the past. I continue to suffer by reliving that painful event over and over again through my own willful participation. The other choice is to simply say no. I'm not going to be an actor in this play. I can see the stage, I can see the story, but I don't want to be a part of it. It's still there, it's still happening, but I'm watching from a distance. Can you see this empty space within yourself to observe but not participate? This leads me to the next point;

2) There is no right and wrong. Your mind is going to be full of ideas and beliefs, and they are going to pop up. Don't try to push them away, as they arise, observe them, but do not buy into them and become a participant. I think you will find that it can be briefly painful to have these thoughts pop up, but it is far more painful, and exhausting to actually step into that make believe world, and become an actor in this play of the mind. that's when you really start to tense up and get angry, and that's how you STAY angry for a long time; through participation.

I had a dream last night about someone, and that dream brought some pretty nasty emotional pain that stayed with me after I woke up. On the drive in to work I sat with these feelings and I felt them. I didn't want them to be there, but this was just my reality at that given time. I didn't have to delve into the dream and relive the experience, but instead feel the pain and allow it to happen, but not create a story for it. Sometimes the world is a sad place, and during those times you should feel sad, and allow the sadness to be with you. Over time it will pass on, as all things do.
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby dijmart » Wed May 24, 2017 1:00 am

logan65 wrote:is that like gravy on yer mashed potatoes?..lol...yes you lost me but i'm readin power of now and david Hawkins letting go soooo


Gravy on mashed potatoes? Yeah, I don't know what that's suppose to mean. Anyways, over the years there have been many times I didn't understand what was being said. I'd ask questions or pick out a section and ask them to clarify.

Sometimes I simply can't say it another way, other times I can, but it's dead in the water if you don't communicate what it is that you're not understanding. The sarcastic comments won't get you very far....
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby logan65 » Thu May 25, 2017 5:10 am

Admiral Akmir wrote:I think a lot of people, probably most people, come to The Power of Now from a place of suffering. They are in pain, and want to feel better, and the power of now seems like a solution.

Ironically, the harder you try to change, the more you realize that you can't. Often times the mind will latch on to these new teachings, and try to become a new version your yourself. The result can be that you start to feel guilty or frustrated at the fact that you still feel sad, still feel angry, and still suffer. You've read the teachings, you have the tools, but they're not working, and in a way, this can feel even worse than the initial suffering.

You can't think yourself free because the solution is not in thought.

You try to clear your mind, but things keep popping up. Again, this goes back to the original trap that I highlighted; you want to change, and have developed an idea of what you want to be, and whenever you fall short of this expectation, you feel frustrated and disappointed.

There are a number of things to consider about the power of now, and the teachings in general;

1) There is a difference between seeing your thoughts, and participating in them. You may hold your hand under a running hot faucet, and when you take your hand away it still burns. But if you do not put your hand in the hot water again, eventually the pain subsides. When a thought pops up, you can observe that it's there, but not engage in it. What is this space that you can observe the thought from? Often times I imagine things that happened in the past, especially instances where people have hurt me. It's so easy to put myself back in that situation and imagine what I could have said, or what I want to say to them. In this case I am participating in this thought and have been whisked away into the past. I continue to suffer by reliving that painful event over and over again through my own willful participation. The other choice is to simply say no. I'm not going to be an actor in this play. I can see the stage, I can see the story, but I don't want to be a part of it. It's still there, it's still happening, but I'm watching from a distance. Can you see this empty space within yourself to observe but not participate? This leads me to the next point;

2) There is no right and wrong. Your mind is going to be full of ideas and beliefs, and they are going to pop up. Don't try to push them away, as they arise, observe them, but do not buy into them and become a participant. I think you will find that it can be briefly painful to have these thoughts pop up, but it is far more painful, and exhausting to actually step into that make believe world, and become an actor in this play of the mind. that's when you really start to tense up and get angry, and that's how you STAY angry for a long time; through participation.

I had a dream last night about someone, and that dream brought some pretty nasty emotional pain that stayed with me after I woke up. On the drive in to work I sat with these feelings and I felt them. I didn't want them to be there, but this was just my reality at that given time. I didn't have to delve into the dream and relive the experience, but instead feel the pain and allow it to happen, but not create a story for it. Sometimes the world is a sad place, and during those times you should feel sad, and allow the sadness to be with you. Over time it will pass on, as all things do.
admiral thank you so much for explaining this to me. more later.
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby logan65 » Thu May 25, 2017 5:39 am

yes admiral I understand that I am voluntarily participating in that "movie" in my mind...so if I just watch that movie without getting emotionally involved,just watchin it,then that means I am the awareness. is that correct?
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Re: if i cant think myself free

Postby Admiral Akmir » Thu May 25, 2017 6:06 am

logan65 wrote:yes admiral I understand that I am voluntarily participating in that "movie" in my mind...so if I just watch that movie without getting emotionally involved,just watchin it,then that means I am the awareness. is that correct?


Thinking of it like a play, or movie is a concept that was described by Don Miguel Ruiz Jr. in this interview;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbXofZ0vauQ

Him and his father both have some really good lessons. They've written a number of books, but the only one I've read is "The Four Agreements", which I would recommend.
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