Is suicide really a "no" ?

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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:15 am

dijmart wrote:
Wanting an end to unbearable pain is not rational ? If that isn't rational, what is ?


Perhaps I should've said, "I" wasn't being rational. Of course, this was only seen after the fact and with professional help.


Dij (and others interested), I recommend this video ... to get an alternative viewpoint:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o80Q4pLvTE
(by Mark Pifer)
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby dijmart » Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:29 am

painBody wrote:
dijmart wrote:
Wanting an end to unbearable pain is not rational ? If that isn't rational, what is ?


Perhaps I should've said, "I" wasn't being rational. Of course, this was only seen after the fact and with professional help.


Dij (and others interested), I recommend this video ... to get an alternative viewpoint:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o80Q4pLvTE
(by Mark Pifer)


Great video, 20 minutes though and only worthwhile, imo, if you are going to listen from beginning to end to get the entire gist. I liked it.

To explain why I say I wasn't being rational...Although there were several, what I deamed horrible things happening in my life when the suicidal ideation appeared (or reappeared, as I had had it before). It was the snow ball effect that brought me to suicide. After the fact, I could see that when each thing was pulled apart and examined, each thing could have been dealt with, without suicide. But, I had been suicidal on/off since my 20's. It just got to be normal to occasionally have suicidal ideation. This time for whatever reason was different, this time I impulsively took more then 250 pills and went to bed. Woke up after being in a coma for 5 days and was on life support.

So, I get it.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby Rubber Soul » Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:51 am

dijmart wrote:I had heard (who knows where) that there's usually a sense of regret.


I've actually read that in many accounts too
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby dijmart » Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:31 am

Rubber Soul wrote:
dijmart wrote:I had heard (who knows where) that there's usually a sense of regret.


I've actually read that in many accounts too


Yeah, I heard they regret for the pain of their families, but mostly for the opportunities they missed by cutting their life short, but I will say for the truly suicidal individual...they don't care about this or they wouldn't do it.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby steve Davidson » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:22 am

Paranormal: My Life In Pursuit Of The Afterlife
By Raymond Moody with Paul Perry

Excerpt from Chapter 15:

In my office I opened the bottle of Darvon and poured the pills out onto my desk. Then I began to take them several at a time with gulps from a can of Coca-Cola. I took about two dozen of the pills and then sat down at the desk. For some reason I called Paul Perry.

“I’ve done it,” I said with a note of finality.

“Done what?” he asked.

Paranormal“I’ve taken pills and I’m dying,” I said. “I want you to be the last person I talk to.”

I could hear the controlled panic in Paul’s voice as he started to ask a series of questions: “What did you take? How many did you take? Where are you?”

I became somewhat angry at the line of questioning. I could tell that he wanted to get enough information to somehow intervene from Arizona. But I didn’t want an intervention. What I wanted was good conversation in the final moments of my life.

“Look, Paul, I have researched death, and I know it’s nothing to be afraid of. I will be better off dead.”

And that was genuinely how I felt. Myxedema madness had put me in the throes of a paranoia and despair so great that I felt everyone would be better off if I was no longer around. No amount of talk could convince me otherwise. Paul suggested a number of possible solutions to my problems, including an agent and CPA to straighten out my money problems and a new press tour to arouse interest in the book. I would hear none of it. I was ready to die.

“You know, Paul, being alive holds more fear for me than being dead. I have talked to hundreds of people who have crossed into death, and they all tell me that it’s great over there,” I said. “Every day I wake up afraid of the day. I don’t want that anymore.”

“What about your children?” Paul asked.

“They’ll all understand,” I said resolutely. “They know I’m not happy here. They’ll be sad, but they’ll understand. It’s time for me to leave.”

I could hear someone jiggling the office door knob as we spoke. Then there was a pounding on the heavy wooden door, a couple of raps at first and then a persistent drumbeat. Then a loud voice. “Campus police, open the door.”

I ignored the demand and kept talking to Paul, taking a few more pills as we spoke. Within seconds a key was slipped into the door lock and the door sprang open. Policemen rushed in and before I could say much of anything they had put my hands behind me and sat me on the floor.

One of the policemen picked up the phone and began talking to Paul. Apparently Paul asked about the presence of pills, because the policeman began to count the pills on the desk. When he did that, he dropped the phone on the desk and from his police radio he dialed 911.

An overdose of Darvon has little effect on a person until it reaches a critical blood level. Then the painkiller overwhelms the heart’s beating mechanism and quickly stops it cold. A dentist friend who had seen someone overdose on Darvon said it was like falling off a table: the person was operating fine until he just dropped to the floor. I knew that the same thing would happen to me shortly. All I had to do was wait. I sat patiently on the floor as EMTs charged up the stairs with their gurney and equipment.

“Are you okay?” asked one of the EMTs.

“Sure,” I said, and I was. Never better actually. I was not afraid of death, but I had obviously become very afraid of life.

Things began to happen fast after that. My chest felt very heavy, and I had the feeling of slipping into a dark blue place. They hoisted me onto the gurney and strapped me in and rolled me quickly down the passageway to the waiting ambulance.

As they loaded me into the ambulance the world around me began to fade. The concerned EMT was in my face, trying to keep me awake. Another EMT was drawing something into a very large syringe, probably adrenaline to inject into my heart. “Better get going,” shouted one of the policemen as he slammed the rear doors. I could feel the ambulance accelerate, hitting speed bumps hard as we headed for the hospital. An elephant was sitting on my chest. My eyes were closed, or at least I think they were. Either way, I could see nothing.

My heart stopped.

What happened next is almost indescribable, but I will do my best to make it less so. I could feel myself separate from the world around me. In a funny way it was almost like cellophane being pulled off a smooth surface, one reality separating from another.

I sensed spirits around me, helpful presences, who were there to guide me through this separation. I tried to see these spirit guides, but I could not make them out because I was surrounded by a light that was not of this world. I could hear them speaking, and although I couldn’t make out what was being said, their presence was soothing and calm and I felt a radiant love from them. I didn’t have an opportunity to examine myself in this state to see what I looked like or was made of. And I didn’t have the time I would have liked to try to make contact with the spirits either. Instead, I felt myself “start up” again as the doctors pumped my stomach and gave me a shot of a stimulant to the heart. The light went away, the spirits were there no more, and I came to in an emergency room.

That’s what it’s all about! I said to myself as I lay there on the bed. I didn’t feel I’d been dead long enough to have a classic near-death experience, but at least I got close enough to see the city limits. I was oddly pleased. After defining, naming, and studying near-death experiences, I could now say I’d had one and, yes, it was real.

I lay in the bed reliving the experience. There was nothing unreal about it. If anything, it was almost mundane, as though I had opened a door and walked into a strange room. I wondered what would have happened if my heart had been stopped longer. Would the spirit beings around me have become visible? And were they people I knew and loved? Would the light have changed and become that palpable and mystical light so many talk about? Would my life have come back to me in a review? Would I have been introduced into a life after life?

I puzzled over these questions for some time and then settled on what I knew — that an extraordinary transformation of consciousness had taken place at the point of death. I did not go into a blackness, as so many assume will happen. Rather, I found myself in a richer, deeper, and more real state of consciousness. I had gone somewhere that so many have described as heaven…

I have found one positive side to my suicide attempt. Now, when people come to me with suicidal thoughts, I can talk to them with firsthand knowledge about this horrible urge. I freely share my own story of attempted suicide and tell them why I am glad I didn’t succeed. I also bring in the data about people who have tried to commit suicide and had near-death experiences before being revived. These people say that they will never again try to kill themselves, not because they fear going to hell, but because they have learned that life does have a purpose.

edit: Moody was suffering from an undiagnosed thyroid condition at the time which, he said, affected his mental state. (He attributes this medical condition to have influenced his suicide attempt)
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:41 pm

Steve, thanks for that excerpt. (And please pardon my bluntness here)

I must say, however, that, having myself been in that kind of situation (mine was far more serious, physically), there was nothing pleasant about it, because somehow, I knew that I was going to be (physically) saved, and I didn't like it ! (Also, this was prior to entering the Tolle-hood stage of my life ... like "childhood", "adulthood", ... "Tolle-hood")

I think such books/accounts are written for attention/dollars. They make a huge phenomenon and a marketable product out of a slightly out-of-the-norm sensory experience - "NDE". A bunch of neurons go haywire, and they think, "Aha ! Money money money !" While I can't possibly know what that author felt, I don't buy that it is in any way spiritual or out of this world. And, I was far closer to physical death than the dude who popped a bunch of OTC pills.

I remember spelling my full name out in the NATO alphabet (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, ...) in the ambulance, because I was quite sure they had never heard my name before. They made me repeat it twice and I did it perfectly, despite being close to my end.

One incident I remember vividly was when I was about to be operated on in the ICU/ER/whatever. They were putting the hospital apron on me. I heard someone in the room laughing loudly ... I was about to die a physical death, and someone apparently found it quite funny :)

They brought in a priest either that same night or the following morning (recall of the first day in the ER is blurry). He asked me several questions like, "Are you close to God ?". I was strangely comforted by his presence. He was calm (present), unlike the dozen doctors/nurses who were attending to me. I don't think I'll forget about his brief visit. That was one of the rare few moments of peace and calm through the ordeal.

I remember thinking, "A priest in a hospital ? Weird !". Then, it struck me ... they were not sure I was going to make it ... that is the only reason I can think of, why a hospital would call in a priest. And they probably also knew, from my documents, that I wasn't going to have any visitors or roses or cookies ... I was all alone (my "emergency contact" was 300 mi away). So, a priest was going to be the closest to a visitor (outside of medical staff) that I was going to get.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:03 pm

painBody wrote:I think such books/accounts are written for attention/dollars. They make a huge phenomenon and a marketable product out of a slightly out-of-the-norm sensory experience - "NDE". A bunch of neurons go haywire, and they think, "Aha ! Money money money !"


Could that be a painbody talking?

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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:07 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
painBody wrote:I think such books/accounts are written for attention/dollars. They make a huge phenomenon and a marketable product out of a slightly out-of-the-norm sensory experience - "NDE". A bunch of neurons go haywire, and they think, "Aha ! Money money money !"


Could that be a painbody talking?

WW


How do you mean ?

Are you disagreeing that there are books written for attention/money ?

Or, are you a firm believer in NDEs and did you not like my refuting their existence/profoundness ?
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby steve Davidson » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:24 pm

Thanks for sharing a little PainBody. I posted this excerpt because Raymond Moody has been mentioned several times on this forum. He is the father of NDEs, he coined that term. He is well respected in that field and also has written several books. He is also a philospher i believe and well read, especially the classics like Plato. I did not look up Plato and what he had to say about suicide, but that might be interesting if there are any philosophers on here or some well versed with Plato, Socrates, etc.

I missed this thread, did not read it till the other day. I am a new member here and am just finding some interesting threads, like this one. I too find it a fascinating subject.

Personally, i was shocked when someone posted on a NDE forum that Moody himself tried to commit suicide. I couldnt believe it and when i found this excerpt about it, i read it with great curiosity.

I shared it here with everyone in case they were interested just like i was, to read what the father of NDE research had to say about suicide and his own suicide attempt. Thanks again PB for starting

this thread and bringing this worthwhile topic to the forum.

edit: No worries PB, about your bluntness, i love it and welcome it. You can say whatever you want, however you feel, i am open to it and welcome it, truly. I appreciate everything you are saying

here and appreciate it, am learning from it. I am open minded and willing to hear everything, and to discern the truth for myself. Your experience was different than Moodys and i appreciate that.

Your take on NDEs is different than many on here, but some feel the same way as you about them. There is no right or wrong here, we each can disagree, but i think it is good to share information

with each other and to discuss these things. I myself, have some doubts about some parts of NDEs and even posted my own question about the life review and it not changing me too much in my own

thread. I know that that goes against the grain and most who believe in NDEs or have had them, would find it weird that i still have not changed much in regards to my actions knowing and believing

in NDEs as i do. But i have to be honest and true, and blunt too!
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:27 pm

painBody wrote:How do you mean ?

Are you disagreeing that there are books written for attention/money ?

There are hundreds if not thousands of books on the subject of NDE. You are disparaging them all, seemingly with out cause. My experience is that most of these books are written out of a desire to share a life changing experience with those seeking understanding of likely the key event in every one's life - their death and what happens next. Yes, some make money off the books they write, but to malign them all with the assumption that that is all it is speaks of a personal investment based on some painful experience. My question is where does that attack on their character come from. Thus: Could that be a painbody talking? Are you invested by some emotional pain that creates the view that writers of NDE's are charlatans?

Or, are you a firm believer in NDEs and did you not like my refuting their existence/profoundness ?

I've done a lot of research into non-physical realities and have had my own experiences to consider. As to my not liking you refuting my take on it, you're welcome to your thoughts whatever they may be. It sounds however, like someone in pain and I offer an opportunity to explore its roots with my question. I don't expect a public discussion. I'm not interested in yet another debate. It's simply for your own consideration. Do with it what you will.

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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:37 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
painBody wrote:How do you mean ?

Are you disagreeing that there are books written for attention/money ?

There are hundreds if not thousands of books on the subject of NDE. You are disparaging them all, seemingly with out cause. My experience is that most of these books are written out of a desire to share a life changing experience with those seeking understanding of likely the key event in every one's life - their death and what happens next. Yes, some make money off the books they write, but to malign them all with the assumption that that is all it is speaks of a personal investment based on some painful experience. My question is where does that attack on their character come from. Thus: Could that be a painbody talking? Are you invested by some emotional pain that creates the view that writers of NDE's are charlatans?

Or, are you a firm believer in NDEs and did you not like my refuting their existence/profoundness ?

I've done a lot of research into non-physical realities and have had my own experiences to consider. As to my not liking you refuting my take on it, you're welcome to your thoughts whatever they may be. It sounds however, like someone in pain and I offer an opportunity to explore its roots with my question. I don't expect a public discussion. I'm not interested in yet another debate. It's simply for your own consideration. Do with it what you will.

WW


I see. Well, yes, what I said was just my opinion, so that doesn't mean it's a pain body. I said, "I think ...", implying opinion. Now, if you disagree with me, great, that's why we're here ... to explore. But, the way to do it is to say that you disagree. By saying, "Are you ill ?", you're pathologizing the other person. That's not necessary, much less is it polite.

When you suggest that someone else is "in pain", that's just a matter of perspective, it seems. I could just as easily say that you're the one in pain because you took my comments personally and you didn't like them because you have the opposite stance on the subject of NDEs. When you point a finger at someone, there are four pointing back at you. I have to say, that's more than a bit condescending. "You seem to be in pain. Let me help you explore it." :)

But, of course, let's not go down that path. That's not why we're here. I'm not interested in a futile debate, either.

Let's not suggest that someone is "in pain" just because they take a firm stance on a subject they're passionate about.

Again, whatever I said was my opinion (that was implied, and is always implied) because nothing anyone says is to be taken as fact.

P.S. No hard feelings here. We're both just on opposite sides of the coin, and that is totally ok.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby steve Davidson » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:39 pm

Here are two excerpts where Raymond Moody shares some things about NDEs and NDEers that i find interesting and can be controversial. I think it fits in well with what PB brought up, enjoy:

The Last Laugh By Raymond Moody 1999 EXCERPT: Two NDEntertainers in particular have scored big hits -- Betty Eadie, author of Embraced by the Light, and Dannion Brinkley. who told his story to journalist Paul Perry, who skillfully crafted it into Saved by the Light. The NDEntertainers make an excellent stalking-horse for illustrating some of the principles of playful paranormalism, for the books and the performances of these New Age thanatothespians invite analyses somewhat along the lines of those that literary or theater critics offer about works of fiction or dramatic productions. I must admit that while I find value in using entertainment as an attention-getting tool, a litterary-style criticism of the public presentations of some of the speakers now on tour brings to light some troubling contradictions inherent in that kind of NDEnterprise. Both Betty and Dannion borrow heavily from techniques of the performing arts to get their message across. Betty even wears an eye-catching costume, a fancy, fringed dress with a touch of Native American style. But I have known Dannion a lot longer, so I am in a better position to offer a commentary on his monodramatic extravaganza. I met Dannion in 1976, several months after he barely survived being struck by lightning. He told me that while he had been on the verge of death, he entered a realm of light and found himself in the company of luminescent beings. He said these beings had shown him a series of encapsulated visions that he described almost as though they had been film clips. He had been given to understand that they were visual representations of events that were to take place in the future. Many prophets seem to foresee mostly drastic kinds of unpleasantness, and the majority of Dannion's foreseeings were the typical soothsayer-fare -- looming famine, war, economic depression, social disarray. In the mid-1970s, when I first heard these foretellings, I was smug. As an avid, in-depth follower of current events, I felt sure the world was in for a big shake-up, a conclusion I based on simple extrapolation from the bad news of those days -- the nuclear arms race, rampant poverty in the third world, carelessness about the environment, and burgeoning overpopulation -- not on psychic warnings. I also knew enough about psychiatry to perceive that most Americans were hiding their heads in the sand about global developments. And I had heard several other near-death exerients recite their own awesome, end-time visions of gloom and doom that were parallet to Dannion's. I surmised that sometimes, when people realized that they were on the verge of death, their defensive structures collapsed and their thoughts raced ahead from what was then the state of world affairs to make likely inference: a worldwide calamity was in the offing. Subsequently, however, I admit I have been a bit unsettled by the uncanny accuracy of some of those experients' forecasts. In 1975, my friend Vi Horton correctly foretold (from her near-death vision) the exact year, nature, and outcome of the revolution in South Africa. And in April of 1976 Dannion told me that in his vision he had foreseen that in 1990 there would be a breakdown of the Soviet Union and that there would be food riots there. I recall that incident so vividly because what he said struck me as silly and absurd; I took his seriousness about the pronouncement as evidence that the bolt of electricity had disrupted his brain circuitry. Imagine my surprise fourteen years later when the event transpired just as he had forespoken it. There have been many other instances, too, when he issued predictions that seemed totally off the wall at the time, only to be fulfilled later with chilling precision. Then I must go on immediately to add that I have seen and heard him pronounce many other prophecies, detailing even the exact day, month, or year of their forthcoming, and all in the same preemptory voice and manner of all-confident authority, that never did materialize as he said they would. Not only that, but he has continued to prophesize ever since his near-death experience took place in September 1975 because he believes that his close call with death empowered him to read minds and to peer into the future. And his display of mind reading is among the best and most convincing I have ever witnessed. Time after time, I have seen folks' jaws drop, or tears well up in their eyes, as Dannion, a total stranger to them, correctly rattles off the details of their personal circumstances, even their deep inner secrets. For years, I have been baffled by his amazing talent for seeming to know things about others that he seemingly would have no way of knowing. That is why I encouraged him to get his story into print. I introduced him to the persons who arranged for its publication. But I had envisioned a different presentation; for a long time, I have wanted to see Dannion in a face-off with the Amazing Randi or other sigh cop, such as Dr. Ray Hyman, a psychologist who specializes in putting claims of telepathic powers to the test. I still hope that some day such a confrontation will come to pass. Since the release of his book, though, a couple of parapsychologically minded investigators have assessed Dannion's skills, and they profess to be as perplexed by him as I am. Whatever the eventual outcome of the wrangling about Dannion among parapsychologists, sigh cops and funda-Christians, however, it won't make any difference to the many admirers and fans who have gathered around him. They will continue to believe he can read minds and foresee the future. Nor is Dannion ever bothered for a minute by any of his misforeseeings, for when prophecies fail, fresh ones soon are heard tripping from his tongue to replace the worn-out ones. Playful paranormalists can give a much better formulation of the walking conundrum that is Dannion Brinkley than is likely to come out of any dysbeliever battles. What has always interested me most about Dannion's tale is not his near-death experience per se, since it is one of a multitude of similar ones, but, rather, its flashy accouterments. He captivates others by dressing up his account in the trappings of a charismatic, bedazzling, and enmazing personality. He is an enlightening example of a kind of person who has been of great importance in the history of the paranormal, namely, the individual who is able to interweave several popular strands of paranormal mythology into one life story. Quite apart from his near-death experience, his prophecies, and his mind-reading, Dannion represents a confluence of a number of distinct themes that historically always have found willing audiences among seekers of paranormal pleasure. Examing these themes closely brings us a good insight into not only who people listen to about the paranormal, but why. The Common Denominators First, there is the matter of the lightning. Then there is the item about a bed. Both lightning and beds have figured predominantly for centuries in the best traditions of the paranormal. As I've already indicated, Dannion's peri-mortal adventure began in a flesh-sizzling flash of lightning, and that by itself was enough to dynamize his tale with paranormal meaning, because for almost the whole of human history, lightning has been interpreted as a supernatural manifestation, and no one is impervious to it holdover paranormal symbolism. Dannion's claim that a bolt of lightning endowed him with inexplicable talents is by no means unique. Throughout the world, especially in tribal cultures, there is a folk belief that those who walk the earth after being struck by lightning have paranormal abilities. In some traditions, practitioners who are initiated into their vocation in this way are respected as the most powerful of all shamans... ... I have brought up Dannion Brinkley because Dannion's saga is a case in point. His story is told with an inscrutable, idiosyncratic use of language that is inseparable from his charismatic personality style. In other words, he certainly has a dramatic flair. In addition, he is using (by chance, it would seem) at least two storytelling imageries -- lightning and a bed (more about which later), which appear historically in tales of the paranormal. Finally, his style of storytelling is important to this analysis. Dannion is a huge, muscular man, and he is charmingly overbearing. He can easily dominate conversations, and loves to be the center of everyone's attention. He holds listeners spellbound, on the edge of their seats, but as long as I have known him, I have never been able to track his train of thought. He speaks in a rapid-fire manner that makes it impossible for all but the quickest to get a word in edgewise. His inimitable manner of oration is a word-blizzard. A respected Cambridge scholar wrote a tify hypotyposis of the count de St. Germain that perfectly captures Dannion's style. According to E. M. Butler, the count "cut a dazzling figure and mystified everyone by his incognito, by dropping mysterious hints, by refusing to commit himself to the possession of powers which he nevertheless seemed to be exercising before their eyes, and by his indecipherable personality." Now for the bed part. Dannion claims that during his near-death experience, otherworldly beings showed him a design for an electronic bed with healing powers. They instructed him to build this device and to install it in his healing centers. I have seen several models of this bed from beyond. They are comfortable recliners with built-in headsets that play tape-recorded music through the body by bone conduction. When I tried one of the beds, I found its effects indistinguishable from hypnagogia. All that aside, Dannion's story about a supernatural settee interests me because it illustrates a bedrock principle of playful paranormalism: It replays the same old favorites again and again over the centuries, the same stock characters show up in slightly different situations, but, overall, the paranormal manages in every succeeding season to make its familiar dramas seem new and exciting. Viewed historically, the paranormal performs somewhat like a repertory theater. For instance, the tale of "an uncanny man with a mysterious couch" is deeply embedded in the history of paranormal and other periparanormal amusements. The particulars of saints' sofas or of holy men's mats often take on significance in their stories. Solomon slept in a magical bed aflutter on every side with angels. Moses was set afloat in a crib woven from reeds. The infant Jesus slumbered in a manger. Then there are Indian fakirs' hystrichomorphic cots and Asklepio's klini... ... To sum up, Dannion Brinkley's story appeals because it tries so many colorful threads of popular paranormality together into one entertainment package. I want to make it clear that I am writing in the abstract, and that, personally, I find Betty and Dannion to be lovable and endearing people who do good things for others. I understand, for example, that Dannion recruits volunteers for hospice during his dramatic and exciting talks with large audiences, and gets quite a few of them. I don't question either of their motives for a second. I am merely pointing out here what makes them listened to. On balance, I expect, NDEntertainment and NDEism will prove to be more a helpful than a harmful development. They will be kept in check by the medical technology that ensures a continuing stream of new arrivals back from round trips to the near hereafter. The high incidence and high prevalence of near-death experiences are a corrective to any possible NDExcesses of NDEists or NDEntertainers. ...............


A CONVERSATION WITH DR. RAYMOND MOODY By Kathryn M. Peters From 1999 EXCERPT: http://www.inlightimes.com/archives/1999/11/moody.htm Kathryn Peters: I sense in your new book, The Last Laugh a bit of frustration over the way in which the near-death experience, and the paranormal are being treated or perhaps the word is ‘exploited’ today. You refer to Betty Eadie and Dannion Brinkley (two of the most popular lecturers on the metaphysical circuit) as ND Entertainers. This comes across as less than complimentary. Is that the way you intend it, Dr. Moody? Raymond Moody: It’s not at all intended as un-complimentary. It is just a description of my impressions. Kathryn Peters: You compare Mr. Brinkley’s experiences to those of leading characters in history. You compare the fact that he was struck by lightning, he possesses an overtly charming personality, and he has developed a ‘super-natural settee’ likened to the saint’s sofas and holy men’s mats. With that understood, the question I pose is this: Do you think it possible that Dannion Brinkley, like those to whom you compare him, has been sent in order to assist in the dawning of a new spiritual age of understanding of death and the realms beyond? Raymond Moody: Well, no, I do not think that of any one person more than I think that of all of us. I wouldn’t put anybody up on a pedestal like that. Everybody is here in their own capacity. I just don’t think in terms of gurus. Kathryn Peters: Without the need for putting anyone on a pedestal or worshipping gurus, is it not possible to consider, if we each come with our own capacity, those out there doing the work like Dannion, Betty and others who have undergone an NDE, are here to collectively push this new spirituality into the forefront as part of their divine task? Raymond Moody: I think that is a wholly unanswer-able question. Kathryn Peters: Dr. Moody, if I handed you a magic wand giving you the power to alter public interest as well as scientific research regarding the paranormal, what changes would we witness as a result of your will? Raymond Moody: I have a very definite answer to that. If I could wave a magic wand, I would help people by teaching them critical thinking. I think that would liberate people more than anything else. .............


DANNION BRINKLEY COMMENTS ON RAYMOND MOODY'S THE LAST LAUGH http://www.inlightimes.com/archives/1999/11/moody.htm Kathryn Peters: Dannion, have you had a chance to read Dr. Raymond Moody’s latest book, The Last Laugh and if so, would you please give me your opinion of it? Dannion Brinkley: Yes I have read it, as a matter of fact, and I think it is fabulous! It’s a very good book which was truly needed. Kathryn Peters: Then as you know, Dr. Moody refers to you and your colleague and friend, Betty Eadie as ND Entertainers. Can you give me a response to that? Dannion Brinkley: Well, I think it’s absolutely true! I take what Raymond said as a compliment for I take tremendous pride in what I do. Nothing makes me happier than to know that due to my own personal near-death experiences I can take on a subject matter, death, which is undeniably a terrifying proposition in our culture, and I can genuinely entertain people with my insights and humor. I consider it a gift from God to be able to lessen people’s fear of dying with laughter the way I do. And I’m actually told I even inspire them along the way. For me, it doesn’t get better than that. Then to have a leading research expert in the field, like Dr. Raymond Moody, recognize and acknowledge my contribution is indeed humbling. Kathryn Peters: In The Last Laugh, Dr. Moody also compares you to some pretty remarkable historical figures, Dannion, how does that make you feel? Dannion Brinkley: Wow, I find it such a true honor to have Raymond equate me in stature to giants in history such as Asklepios and Solomon as well as the lightning shamans of Peru. I sincerely thank him. This book is remarkable for it comes from not only a brillant scholar but from one of the funniest human beings I have ever met. Long live the Rainman. ..............

BLINDED BY THE LIGHT? By Roy Rivenburg with help from Paul Dean Los Angeles Times March 24, 1995 Original Link The complete article is also posted here. EXCERPT: [Dannion] Brinkley says his life review covered "at least 6,000 fistfights" that he had between fifth and 12th grades. That averages out to two brawls a day, nonstop for eight years, making Brinkley the Wilt Chamberlain of schoolyard pugilism. He also says he was a Marine Corps sniper during the Vietnam War, dispatched to Cambodia and Laos to assassinate enemy officers and politicians. But military records show that Pfc. Brinkley was never a sniper, never saw combat, indeed never left the United States during his 18 months in the service. He was a truck driver stationed in Atlanta. Brinkley declines to offer any evidence of overseas duty, saying the government is covering up his record because it is classified. But several sources inside and outside the military (including ex-Marines involved in the same covert operations Brinkley claims a role in) say his tale is full of holes and that the so-called secret files are all public.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:47 pm

Thanks again, Steve. I think this discussion has gone off on a tangent, however.

Perhaps it would be best to create a new NDE thread for this stuff. This thread is about suicide.

I'm not saying let's not talk about NDEs. Let's move it to a more applicable thread.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby steve Davidson » Sun Jun 04, 2017 9:57 pm

I respectfully disagree PB, that this discussion has gone off tangent. I hope you dont mind me being blunt too. I think it is right on tangent, with what i shared, helpful in understanding the topic of suicide. I did post one extra post showing how playful and sceptical Raymond Moody can be too. He is a very open minded man and it went well with your side discussion with WW. But i will respect what you asked and not post anything more about NDEs or NDE related in this thread.

And lastly, even though i am a newcomer here, some of the threads i have read, they bounce all over the place and hardly even talk about what the OP was about. Just saying.
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Re: Is suicide really a "no" ?

Postby painBody » Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:01 pm

steve Davidson wrote:I respectfully disagree PB, that this discussion has gone off tangent. I hope you dont mind me being blunt too. I think it is right on tangent, with what i shared, helpful in understanding the topic of suicide. I did post one extra post showing how playful and sceptical Raymond Moody can be too. He is a very open minded man and it went well with your side discussion with WW. But i will respect what you asked and not post anything more about NDEs or NDE related in this thread.

And lastly, even though i am a newcomer here, some of the threads i have read, they bounce all over the place and hardly even talk about what the OP was about. Just saying.


I understand. It's not a big deal. I was just making a suggestion. It ultimately doesn't matter what ends up in which thread :) Small details.

Yes, true that a lot of threads bounce around.

Post away ! I think I should take a break from the site before we have a heated debate on our hands.

Thank you for being blunt, and I like your enthusiasm !
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