Self inquiry

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Self inquiry

Postby dijmart » Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:34 pm

I never was much of a traditional, eyes closed, legs crossed meditator. So, Self inquiry has been my main practice.

Self inquiry that I'm referring to is discriminating you, from the objects that appear in/to you. How do you recognize what isn't you? Seems easy enough right? Maybe so with gross objects, but what about subtle objects?

So, the world (people, buildings, cars, ect), are not you, you are seperate from them, that's obvious. The body, you can see it, feel it, know it...you, are seperate from it. The senses (taste, smell, hearing, touch), you are aware "of" them, so can't "be" you either. The mind (thoughts, feeling, emotions), they appear and disappear, you witness them. If you witness them, they can't be you either. You can't be what you witness or what comes and goes.

So, what's left? ...Who are you?
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby rachMiel » Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:19 pm

No-thing is left. You are no-one.

Another way of stating this: everything is left. You are everyone.

?
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby dijmart » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:04 pm

rachMiel wrote:No-thing is left. You are no-one.

Another way of stating this: everything is left. You are everyone.

?


Right!

But what about the person who says, "well, yeah, but I'm still "me". I'm a sister, brother, mother, father, baker, lawyer, blah, blah".

How to get them to "see"? It's easy to say, you aren't your thoughts, because you can witness them. It's whole nother ball game when you ask them to witness the "me" (ego). I think many people think it's the little "me" that is witnessing??

What do you think?
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby rachMiel » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:46 pm

It *is* the little me that's doing the witnessing a bunch of the time. There's a subtle but huge difference between thinking about something (self) and aware-ing it (Self). And what people call witnessing is often actually thinking, not aware-ing. It's a kind of faux, self-biased witnessing. That said, this faux witnessing can at times lead to real witnessing. But it has to be unperturbed by thought, opinion, interpretation to lose its fauxness.
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby dijmart » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:52 pm

rachMiel wrote:It *is* the little me that's doing the witnessing a bunch of the time. There's a subtle but huge difference between thinking about something (self) and aware-ing it (Self). And what people call witnessing is often actually thinking, not aware-ing. It's a kind of faux, self-biased witnessing. That said, this faux witnessing can at times lead to real witnessing. But it has to be unperturbed by thought, opinion, interpretation to lose its fauxness.


See what I mean, it's tricky.
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby peaceINpractice » Sat Jun 10, 2017 12:48 am

Aren't we just consciousness? Everything else is a story.... ?

I also don't have a crossed legs practice. I try and enter the now through the body.
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby dijmart » Sat Jun 10, 2017 1:27 am

Btw, you phrased it very well RM! :)
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby dijmart » Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:01 am

peaceINpractice wrote:Aren't we just consciousness? Everything else is a story.... ?



Well, yes, but ...is your "experience", that it's a story? That's why discrimination is absolutely necessary.

Another words, can you truly see its a story? It exists, its experienced... do you know how to work your way out?
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby dijmart » Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:29 pm

"An Inquiry Into The Nature of the Seer and the Seen,
the Way of Inquiry and the Nature of Truth"

The Dŗg-Dŗśya-Viveka contains 46 slokas-

http://www.scienceandnonduality.com/dṛg-dṛsya-viveka-wisdom-of-the-seer-and-the-seen/
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby borris83 » Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:10 pm

dijmart wrote:I never was much of a traditional, eyes closed, legs crossed meditator. So, Self inquiry has been my main practice.

Self inquiry that I'm referring to is discriminating you, from the objects that appear in/to you. How do you recognize what isn't you? Seems easy enough right? Maybe so with gross objects, but what about subtle objects?

So, the world (people, buildings, cars, ect), are not you, you are seperate from them, that's obvious. The body, you can see it, feel it, know it...you, are seperate from it. The senses (taste, smell, hearing, touch), you are aware "of" them, so can't "be" you either. The mind (thoughts, feeling, emotions), they appear and disappear, you witness them. If you witness them, they can't be you either. You can't be what you witness or what comes and goes.

So, what's left? ...Who are you?


This is a very good practice, usually referred to 'neti,neti' (not this, not this).. Once people understand how it works, it also becomes interesting to practice... When someone practices mindfulness, while negating what one witnesses as not-self, that can lead to awakening quickly.. Sitting cross legged with closed eyes and meditating is not really necessary but some people prefer it because it helps them to focus. It also has its own benefits.
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby dijmart » Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:08 am

This is from the Shiningworld site/James Swartz. It has excellent tips for Self inquiry during meditation. Since I posted this thread, I will include it here. Enjoy!

Seeker: Dear James, I've transcribed a section of your talk in Tiruvannamalai 2011 on the Gita from Meditation 1, Chapter 6. I'm copying it here as I found it useful and maybe others will too:

“In meditation, the meditator is making an enquiry in the inner world. The self is the one who’s watching the meditation. Meditation is creating the conditions where it’s easier to discriminate the self from the objects appearing in the self. Liberation (moksha) is atma anatma viveka, understanding the difference between the self and the objects.

“In meditation, I don’t have physical objects to worry about. I only have subtle objects to worry about. When we’re meditating you can ‘see’ or ‘feel’ or ‘hear’ the silence, which is an object You can know it.

“You’ll see the sounds coming into the silence and disappearing out of the silence; you can see your thoughts coming in the silence and out of the silence. If you have an important experience, then you’ll feel emotions generated out of that experience appearing in the silence and disappearing out of the silence.

“So you have two objects in meditation; you have the silence and the mental activity appearing in it. And there’s a third factor there too. The third factor is me, the witness of the silence. If you see or experience or know silence, you can’t be silence because you can’t be what you see.

“In meditation, there are these three factors all the time. Meditation is sitting still and sorting out how the silence is known. Where do I fit into this scenario? Who am I?

“If you’re the one sitting in silence, you are not free because the silence is bigger than you. It encompasses you. But ask ‘Who sees the silence encompassing me. Who sees my body sitting in the silence?’

“It’s recognition of that awareness as yourself that is freedom (moksa). That’s why you can gain moksha in meditation, assuming that you’re looking for the witness and you’re not looking for a particular experience. If you’re looking for a particular experience in meditation, you will miss the one who’s witnessing the experience, the one who is always free of the experience.

“No matter what experience you have externally or internally, you precede and survive every experience. A particular experience appears and is witnessed by you; it stays for a while – witnessed by you – and then it declines and disappears, but do you disappear when the experience goes? No.

“You just remain as the witness and the next experience appears, persists and declines. So the awareness that’s constantly there, the knower, the witness, the seer – that’s me. Identify with it and you are free because it is limitless. It’s permanent, it never goes or comes. By contemplating on this, you will get the freedom that comes with the knowledge of who I am. It is the same when you extroverted and running around in the world but you won’t notice it there. It is easy in meditation.

“From the jiva’s (person) point of view, meditation is a direct means of burning the vasanas, ameliorating your negative tendencies, because hold onto the silence, which is the self reflecting in a pure, meditative, sattvic mind, and you forego the vasanas which keeps them from connecting the senses to the objects. Therefore, they die. Sit in meditation every day for thirty minutes, even an hour. It is good for you.”
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Re: Self inquiry

Postby rodriguez_88 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:20 am

Here's a thread that might prove beneficial to the reader.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8267&p=65307&hilit=remove#p65307
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