I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me uneas

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I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me uneas

Postby Ervin » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:22 am

Hi everyone,

I think that after a long search into spirituality, religion, philosophy, I can confidently say that Echarts teachings are correct, at least to an extent.

I am present, and it's good, however, not thinking makes me a bit uneasy and I don't know is it possible. Maybe it is possible and I think it might as well be good, but so far when I try not to think, I feel like I am letting my guard down. Or maybe not thinking might not be right for me, but presence definitely is.

I have just edited the post to ad a bit more. Ok, in order for me to write this post, I have to think, and in order for you to answer it, you have to think, so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?

I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby kiki » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:51 am

so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?


Let go of unnecessary thoughts, which comprise the bulk of our thinking and tend to be repetitive in nature. They are no longer useful and tend to interfere with our being attentive to what's actually unfolding before us. Very few thoughts each day are unique and necessary, so if you can find the "off button" to thinking you will be feel much more attuned to the here and now, and will be able to respond to your environment in a fresh and innocent way. Mind then becomes more of a useful tool; it will arise when needed, and when not needed it drops away, leaving a feeling of great peace, silence and stillness.
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby sardinelover » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:11 pm

If I had a dollar for every time someone here says that they are "present", and then proceed to describe their unease or problems whilst being "present", I'd be a about $20 richer.

You can't "try not to think". The process to stop thinking doesn't work like that. Be aware of your thoughts, more specifically, listen to the voices in your head, watch them from a distance, and they will stop, quickly. How? With awareness, the energy and momentum that would have normally driven the voices(thoughts) dissipated.

In the state of presence there is stillness, and that is what Tolle means by not thinking. Of course thinking has to occur on some level in order to answer your questions, but with awareness there is consciousness, which is the opposite of the unconsciousness of the world.
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:41 pm

Ervin wrote:
I have just edited the post to ad a bit more. Ok, in order for me to write this post, I have to think, and in order for you to answer it, you have to think, so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?

I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks

My take is this: The primary trap of thinking is the identification with the thoughts we hold. When we perceive ourselves to be the thought, and therefore become somewhat of a thinking machine, we lose our true sense of what we are. We are consciousness being. By taking frequent and consistent moments of thought free perception we regain a greater sense of what we are. In the mental silence of thought free presence, awareness of being becomes clearer. Try listening without descriptions or labels. Do the same with observations of whatever is present. Be aware without applying a context of belief. Be aware of your own conscious beingness.

Now, it's unlikely you will hold this for long at any one time, but that's okay. What matters is that you know the difference between thought identity and fundamental aware being. The goal is a familiarity with our natural state. Make a practice of returning to this clear state as often as you can. It is the birthplace of insight and inspiration. It is the alignment with your greater being.

WW
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Mystic » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:35 am

The restless monkey-mind is full of swirling thoughts, desires, resentments, agitations, and fears .

As you begin to watch your mind and examine these restless thoughts, you can look to the root of the thought(what is it for?) and you may find that the roots are rather shallow.

A swirl of meaningless thoughts without roots. Pull them up by their shallow roots and throw them away. Enter the stillness ...the swirl fades into the background.

Introspection and self inquiry.
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby rodriguez_88 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:53 am

Ok, in order for me to write this post, I have to think, and in order for you to answer it, you have to think, so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?


Thinking is necessary for certain things, and writing, of course, happens to be one of them.

What Eckhart means by not thinking is simply resting as what you are before thinking takes place. In the same way one drops a hammer after completing a birdhouse because it is no longer needed, one can drop thinking when thinking is no longer needed. The hand that picked up the hammer doesn't need to hold onto the hammer forever, because holding it would eventually make the hand weary. In the same way, engaging with the mind when it's no longer needed often leads to suffering.

Eckhart's teachings simply point out that there's a way to drop unnecessary thinking, and that all we need to do is familiarize ourselves with what allows thinking to exist in the first place.
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby logan65 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Ervin wrote:
I have just edited the post to ad a bit more. Ok, in order for me to write this post, I have to think, and in order for you to answer it, you have to think, so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?

I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks

My take is this: The primary trap of thinking is the identification with the thoughts we hold. When we perceive ourselves to be the thought, and therefore become somewhat of a thinking machine, we lose our true sense of what we are. We are consciousness being. By taking frequent and consistent moments of thought free perception we regain a greater sense of what we are. In the mental silence of thought free presence, awareness of being becomes clearer. Try listening without descriptions or labels. Do the same with observations of whatever is present. Be aware without applying a context of belief. Be aware of your own conscious beingness.

Now, it's unlikely you will hold this for long at any one time, but that's okay. What matters is that you know the difference between thought identity and fundamental aware being. The goal is a familiarity with our natural state. Make a practice of returning to this clear state as often as you can. It is the birthplace of insight and inspiration. It is the alignment with your greater being....

WW



this is a tremendous post...what matters is that I know the difference between thought identity and fundamental aware being...the I can only exist in association with and identified with objects..of course I have been getting into some maharshi,and I forget the rest of his names..lol...thanks a lot webwanderer. you said what he said but in English.

(Moderator Note: Edited to distinguish quotes.)
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby logan65 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:58 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Ervin wrote:
I have just edited the post to ad a bit more. Ok, in order for me to write this post, I have to think, and in order for you to answer it, you have to think, so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?

I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks

My take is this: The primary trap of thinking is the identification with the thoughts we hold. When we perceive ourselves to be the thought, and therefore become somewhat of a thinking machine, we lose our true sense of what we are. We are consciousness being. By taking frequent and consistent moments of thought free perception we regain a greater sense of what we are. In the mental silence of thought free presence, awareness of being becomes clearer. Try listening without descriptions or labels. Do the same with observations of whatever is present. Be aware without applying a context of belief. Be aware of your own conscious beingness.

Now, it's unlikely you will hold this for long at any one time, but that's okay. What matters is that you know the difference between thought identity and fundamental aware being. The goal is a familiarity with our natural state. Make a practice of returning to this clear state as often as you can. It is the birthplace of insight and inspiration. It is the alignment with your greater being....


this is a tremendous post...what matters is that I know the difference between thought identity and fundamental aware being...the I can only exist in association with and identified with objects..of course I have been getting into some maharshi,and I forget the rest of his names..lol...thanks a lot webwanderer. you said what he said but in English.

quote function didn't work.

(Fixed)
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:29 pm

logan65 wrote:the I can only exist in association with and identified with objects..

And not just objects, but thought constructs of identification. 'I am.... a man, woman, teacher, construction worker, scientist, programmer, salesman, etc.' There is also adjectives of identifications. 'I am... tall, short, strong, sick, liberal, conservative, white, black, Hispanic.' There are endless ways to adopt an identification through our relationship with the words we use and the thoughts we hold. Just being aware of them helps lessen their hold on us.

WW
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby matt74ike » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:53 pm

Eckhart says that maybe there are somewhere indian gurus who are constantly here and now, but he says that this is an extreme sytuation and not possible in a real life. Eckhart says we should seek balance between thinking and "not thinking". In this regard "not thinking" is rather being aware of thinking, because we are not 100% in control of our thoughts.
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Ervin » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:00 pm

Thanks everyone for your responses. The way I see it is that you have to be aware of the teachings throughout the waking hours. And it takes some effort on our behalf. Once you forget of the teachings you tend to go back to excess identification with the thought.

Anyway, it's not easy for me to practice presence.

Thanks
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:45 pm

Ervin wrote:Anyway, it's not easy for me to practice presence.


It's also worth remembering that it's not an all or nothing equation. So long as one has a sense of presence that is available as a fall-back perspective, that familiar presence will bring value and clarity to one's life experience. It will be a great help when life's challenges come our way as they so often do.

WW
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby turiya » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:53 pm

Ervin wrote:
Once you forget of the teachings you tend to go back to excess identification with the thought.

Anyway, it's not easy for me to practice presence.


Drop the teachings (and everything else you've ever learned about anything) and see what remains.

Drop "you"... (i.e. any ideas you have of who you are) and see what remains.

Here's Mooji:

https://youtu.be/k90ACXCZ0JI

:D
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Admiral Akmir » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:26 am

The teachings have always been kind of a troublesome concept to me, and I think they probably are for most people at some point. The core of the problem is that most people want to change in some way. If they were perfectly happy and content, they wouldn't seek a different state of awareness or being. This is where the problem lies; the desire for change takes the teachings, and tries to warp them into a new identity, or a solution to a problem, both of which will exhaust you quickly.

Here is an analogy that helped me form a new perspective, I think it was Don Miguel Ruiz Jr. who put it this way:

Your thoughts are like plays, and you are the actors and the audience. You may not have a say in whether or not the stage is there, but you do have a choice over whether or not you become an actor in any given story.

The reality for most people, is that they're acting in plays that exhaust them, and they don't realize that they can leave the stage anytime. Imagine that there is a long, quiet hallway, with many open doors, leading to many stages. You can hear the voices and performances from the stages, all drifting into the hallway, but you're not a part of any of these stories. This is a safe place, and you can go there anytime you want, it is always available and it never changes. This is what presence means. You step out of the stories in your mind, and become the observer of them all. An attempt to abolish all thought would be like pretending that the stages don't exist, and that the plays aren't taking place. Can you imagine how exhausting that would be? You would expend so much energy, trying to force out the sounds, images and feel of your surroundings, that your surroundings would disappear. In essence, you would be creating a new play, one in which you act out a reality where nothing exists.

If my memory serves me correctly, Tolle talks about some forms of this in his book, where the ego can assume the identity of an enlightened person. This is troublesome, because with that identity comes a collection of rules about how you should feel and think. In the end, this is just another performance, and isn't any more real than the rest of them.

I think the key thing to do, is try to visit the hallway more often. Don't be afraid of the plays that are taking place. You can look at the stages, but no one can make you walk up there and take part in any given story. From this perspective, you can see your thoughts in a new way, and you may decide that some of them aren't really worth investing in anymore.
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