I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me uneas

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I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me uneas

Postby Ervin » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:22 am

Hi everyone,

I think that after a long search into spirituality, religion, philosophy, I can confidently say that Echarts teachings are correct, at least to an extent.

I am present, and it's good, however, not thinking makes me a bit uneasy and I don't know is it possible. Maybe it is possible and I think it might as well be good, but so far when I try not to think, I feel like I am letting my guard down. Or maybe not thinking might not be right for me, but presence definitely is.

I have just edited the post to ad a bit more. Ok, in order for me to write this post, I have to think, and in order for you to answer it, you have to think, so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?

I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby kiki » Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:51 am

so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?


Let go of unnecessary thoughts, which comprise the bulk of our thinking and tend to be repetitive in nature. They are no longer useful and tend to interfere with our being attentive to what's actually unfolding before us. Very few thoughts each day are unique and necessary, so if you can find the "off button" to thinking you will be feel much more attuned to the here and now, and will be able to respond to your environment in a fresh and innocent way. Mind then becomes more of a useful tool; it will arise when needed, and when not needed it drops away, leaving a feeling of great peace, silence and stillness.
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby sardinelover » Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:11 pm

If I had a dollar for every time someone here says that they are "present", and then proceed to describe their unease or problems whilst being "present", I'd be a about $20 richer.

You can't "try not to think". The process to stop thinking doesn't work like that. Be aware of your thoughts, more specifically, listen to the voices in your head, watch them from a distance, and they will stop, quickly. How? With awareness, the energy and momentum that would have normally driven the voices(thoughts) dissipated.

In the state of presence there is stillness, and that is what Tolle means by not thinking. Of course thinking has to occur on some level in order to answer your questions, but with awareness there is consciousness, which is the opposite of the unconsciousness of the world.
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Webwanderer » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:41 pm

Ervin wrote:
I have just edited the post to ad a bit more. Ok, in order for me to write this post, I have to think, and in order for you to answer it, you have to think, so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?

I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks

My take is this: The primary trap of thinking is the identification with the thoughts we hold. When we perceive ourselves to be the thought, and therefore become somewhat of a thinking machine, we lose our true sense of what we are. We are consciousness being. By taking frequent and consistent moments of thought free perception we regain a greater sense of what we are. In the mental silence of thought free presence, awareness of being becomes clearer. Try listening without descriptions or labels. Do the same with observations of whatever is present. Be aware without applying a context of belief. Be aware of your own conscious beingness.

Now, it's unlikely you will hold this for long at any one time, but that's okay. What matters is that you know the difference between thought identity and fundamental aware being. The goal is a familiarity with our natural state. Make a practice of returning to this clear state as often as you can. It is the birthplace of insight and inspiration. It is the alignment with your greater being.

WW
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Mystic » Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:35 am

The restless monkey-mind is full of swirling thoughts, desires, resentments, agitations, and fears .

As you begin to watch your mind and examine these restless thoughts, you can look to the root of the thought(what is it for?) and you may find that the roots are rather shallow.

A swirl of meaningless thoughts without roots. Pull them up by their shallow roots and throw them away. Enter the stillness ...the swirl fades into the background.

Introspection and self inquiry.
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby rodriguez_88 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:53 am

Ok, in order for me to write this post, I have to think, and in order for you to answer it, you have to think, so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?


Thinking is necessary for certain things, and writing, of course, happens to be one of them.

What Eckhart means by not thinking is simply resting as what you are before thinking takes place. In the same way one drops a hammer after completing a birdhouse because it is no longer needed, one can drop thinking when thinking is no longer needed. The hand that picked up the hammer doesn't need to hold onto the hammer forever, because holding it would eventually make the hand weary. In the same way, engaging with the mind when it's no longer needed often leads to suffering.

Eckhart's teachings simply point out that there's a way to drop unnecessary thinking, and that all we need to do is familiarize ourselves with what allows thinking to exist in the first place.
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby logan65 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Ervin wrote:
I have just edited the post to ad a bit more. Ok, in order for me to write this post, I have to think, and in order for you to answer it, you have to think, so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?

I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks

My take is this: The primary trap of thinking is the identification with the thoughts we hold. When we perceive ourselves to be the thought, and therefore become somewhat of a thinking machine, we lose our true sense of what we are. We are consciousness being. By taking frequent and consistent moments of thought free perception we regain a greater sense of what we are. In the mental silence of thought free presence, awareness of being becomes clearer. Try listening without descriptions or labels. Do the same with observations of whatever is present. Be aware without applying a context of belief. Be aware of your own conscious beingness.

Now, it's unlikely you will hold this for long at any one time, but that's okay. What matters is that you know the difference between thought identity and fundamental aware being. The goal is a familiarity with our natural state. Make a practice of returning to this clear state as often as you can. It is the birthplace of insight and inspiration. It is the alignment with your greater being....

WW



this is a tremendous post...what matters is that I know the difference between thought identity and fundamental aware being...the I can only exist in association with and identified with objects..of course I have been getting into some maharshi,and I forget the rest of his names..lol...thanks a lot webwanderer. you said what he said but in English.

(Moderator Note: Edited to distinguish quotes.)
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby logan65 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:58 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
Ervin wrote:
I have just edited the post to ad a bit more. Ok, in order for me to write this post, I have to think, and in order for you to answer it, you have to think, so what does Eckhart mean by not thinking?

I am interested in your thoughts.

Thanks

My take is this: The primary trap of thinking is the identification with the thoughts we hold. When we perceive ourselves to be the thought, and therefore become somewhat of a thinking machine, we lose our true sense of what we are. We are consciousness being. By taking frequent and consistent moments of thought free perception we regain a greater sense of what we are. In the mental silence of thought free presence, awareness of being becomes clearer. Try listening without descriptions or labels. Do the same with observations of whatever is present. Be aware without applying a context of belief. Be aware of your own conscious beingness.

Now, it's unlikely you will hold this for long at any one time, but that's okay. What matters is that you know the difference between thought identity and fundamental aware being. The goal is a familiarity with our natural state. Make a practice of returning to this clear state as often as you can. It is the birthplace of insight and inspiration. It is the alignment with your greater being....


this is a tremendous post...what matters is that I know the difference between thought identity and fundamental aware being...the I can only exist in association with and identified with objects..of course I have been getting into some maharshi,and I forget the rest of his names..lol...thanks a lot webwanderer. you said what he said but in English.

quote function didn't work.

(Fixed)
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:29 pm

logan65 wrote:the I can only exist in association with and identified with objects..

And not just objects, but thought constructs of identification. 'I am.... a man, woman, teacher, construction worker, scientist, programmer, salesman, etc.' There is also adjectives of identifications. 'I am... tall, short, strong, sick, liberal, conservative, white, black, Hispanic.' There are endless ways to adopt an identification through our relationship with the words we use and the thoughts we hold. Just being aware of them helps lessen their hold on us.

WW
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby matt74ike » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:53 pm

Eckhart says that maybe there are somewhere indian gurus who are constantly here and now, but he says that this is an extreme sytuation and not possible in a real life. Eckhart says we should seek balance between thinking and "not thinking". In this regard "not thinking" is rather being aware of thinking, because we are not 100% in control of our thoughts.
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Ervin » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:00 pm

Thanks everyone for your responses. The way I see it is that you have to be aware of the teachings throughout the waking hours. And it takes some effort on our behalf. Once you forget of the teachings you tend to go back to excess identification with the thought.

Anyway, it's not easy for me to practice presence.

Thanks
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby Webwanderer » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:45 pm

Ervin wrote:Anyway, it's not easy for me to practice presence.


It's also worth remembering that it's not an all or nothing equation. So long as one has a sense of presence that is available as a fall-back perspective, that familiar presence will bring value and clarity to one's life experience. It will be a great help when life's challenges come our way as they so often do.

WW
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Re: I am able to be in presence, but not thinking makes me u

Postby turiya » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:53 pm

Ervin wrote:
Once you forget of the teachings you tend to go back to excess identification with the thought.

Anyway, it's not easy for me to practice presence.


Drop the teachings (and everything else you've ever learned about anything) and see what remains.

Drop "you"... (i.e. any ideas you have of who you are) and see what remains.

Here's Mooji:

https://youtu.be/k90ACXCZ0JI

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