...and other natural laws

[smiileyjen101]

...and outside of Maya?

When you experience oneness with the universe and dancing in energies?

Then you don't need a how-to manual.

I've been sitting with this for a few days now and now 'touche' is still relevant, but maybe not enough.

"Needing' a how-to manual is only relevant until you do learn to put the knowledge gained into experience, test it, modify it if needs be, and sometimes it's worthwhile re-reading them, as you re-experience situations where the information is relevant, but maybe on another layer.

I'm absolutely grateful for the 'how-to' manuals I've come across since the passing of my Granny who held and shared the ancient wisdoms. I do notice similarities at the core of the wisdom shared, and am interested (on a professional communicator level) at the different treatments given to sharing the information - be that from sharing personal experiences, passing it on with others' wisdoms, or straight from the cuff.

I have to say, in my varied experiences, the knowledge passed on about these 'laws' (and please understand I use that term loosely for want of a better one), I've noticed quite simply do play out, whether you are aware of them, whether you acknowledge them, or not. Unlike human 'laws' these ones are not skewed or biased, they are indeed universal - this takes them out of the realm of morality, culture... and dare I say you don't even need to 'believe' them.

Understanding them however can save you a lot of unnecessary 'suffering' and can also be employed to assist you to dance in the energies.
Yes if you're already enlightened suffering would likely be null and void anyway.

Most of us are not that advanced, and imho even those that are would 'attract' the same 'results' if they were out of kilter with these... whatever you like to call them.

Just thought I'd add that as I've been 'experiencing' multiple moments of real pain for the last 10 days or so (health issues including very angry kidney stones) and have, when I can, still been dancing with these energies thanks to the 'how-to' manuals of Tolle (being 'present'), Millman (recognising the 'energies' at work, employing those likely to assist me most), and many others, including everyone sharing on this forum. I've also been using it as an opportunity to look at the areas that I've been resisting some realities, creating some of the wet puddles on the dance floor (oh!! probably shouldn't use that analogy with kidney probs!! ), the things that are making the dance floor less easy to gracefully glide across without falling on my face.

I'm not beyond saying I still need assistance and reminders from those wiser than me, and I'm very grateful for them in the absence of my wise and healing granny.

[karmarider]

That's all very cool.

The confirmation of natural laws is cool.

Or the confirmation of karma or God or the law of attraction, or honesty, or the aliveness of presence, or the search for how to live once you think you are awakened, or what Oneness is and isn't, and everything else.

It's all good.

Within all of that, we can still look. Look inside at yourself.

[smiileyjen101]

It's all good.

Within all of that, we can still look. Look inside at yourself.

Thanks KR, and I need to thank you for your input that helped to keep this line of thinking uppermost and present.

Funny ole world isn't it.

[Mystic]

So how aware are you of natural laws in constant motion?

Hello again smileyjen

I believe all laws are basically different perspectives of the one law, the law of universal oneness.

The universe is in a grain of sand as the grain of sand is in the universe. Everything is motion and stillness. Motion is relative stillness and is therefore illusory. Perfect stillness is absolute and is the unshakable peace of Being. We return to the stillness(eternal) and then go out to the motion(temporal) again and again.

This pattern keeps repeating from the micro-scale to the macro-scale:



The law of attraction is the law of universal oneness, also known as the law of cause and effect.

We are creators and Love is the primary creative force of reality.

[smiileyjen101]

HI Mystic,

This pattern keeps repeating from the micro-scale to the macro-scale:

and every which way at once

I tend more towards perceiving than believing... the devil is in the nuance/detail of the energies in motion (or not) for me, especially in the areas of awareness and capacity, willingness can only build upon those two.

The law of attraction is the law of universal oneness, also known as the law of cause and effect.

Maybe, but with awareness one might notice when the law of attraction is not in harmony within the 'other' laws, it doesn't have the same power as when it is, which is why I kinda looked at and shared the others. For instance the law of attraction must work in harmony with the law of balance, or discipline or action etc (maybe in infinite combinations). Absolutely all within oneness.

Cause and effect cumulatively within all motion and stillness within the oneness, is a little tricky for one perspective to absorb but I do accept that it is there.

Love the picture.

[Mystic]

HI Mystic,

This pattern keeps repeating from the micro-scale to the macro-scale:

and every which way at once

I tend more towards perceiving than believing... the devil is in the nuance/detail of the energies in motion (or not) for me, especially in the areas of awareness and capacity, willingness can only build upon those two.

The law of attraction is the law of universal oneness, also known as the law of cause and effect.

Maybe, but with awareness one might notice when the law of attraction is not in harmony within the 'other' laws, it doesn't have the same power as when it is, which is why I kinda looked at and shared the others. For instance the law of attraction must work in harmony with the law of balance, or discipline or action etc (maybe in infinite combinations). Absolutely all within oneness.

Cause and effect cumulatively within all motion and stillness within the oneness, is a little tricky for one perspective to absorb but I do accept that it is there.

Love the picture.

My brain yearns to simplify it down to a unified pet theory of reality but I think you are making a really good point Perhaps reality and its infinite dimensions and universes is a little more complex than I thought...

Here is an interesting video with Raymond Moody. Words of the dying are often interpreted as non-sense but maybe they are not...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwUKMHyGar8

Those who are nearing the end of their lives are often reported to say poetic, unusual things in the hours shortly before death. Are these communications just nonsense? Or do they hold a hidden message?

[smiileyjen101]

Sorry Mystic, I hope you're still here - I hadn't seen your reply.
Thanks for the link - what a wonderfully strange conversation they were all having - not because of their content or topic matter - but that they had this strange idea it hadn't been scientifically studied or discussed before. (even saying that they'd done literature searches and came up with nothing - what google are they on )

Elisabeth Kubler Ross's studies on death and dying and on grief and grieving and all of the things in between include many of the things they think they are discovering new - including her book Death is of Vital Importance discusses her own work chronicling and assessing near death visitations and utterances etc as a psychiatrist with a lifelong interest and experience in the field. Published in 1995 it's not as if she is so long gone as to be forgotten (surely?)

On so many levels for me though, (apart from that ^)it was interesting to watch - to hear Dr Moody say to avoid parapsychology - anyone who tells you they have scientific evidence of life after death is not telling the truth --- when many interpret that is what his work has been doing, and I've constantly - even as a clair-abilitied person and as a nde returner said the same thing - it is impossible to claim that - even if the evidence points our consciousness in that way - it's something that for me is that is still within the realm of the third verdict - not proven .... not proven true or proven untrue - as yet unproven but still within the realms of possibility given the evidence.

And some of their personal discussions were heartening, and evoked my own memories of the sacredness and truly humbling honour of being able to enter into the worlds of those dying, and like a reporter often doesn't know where a story will lead, or which quotes will turn out to be the gems of it and so must remain impartial in empathy and conclusions... and how some of those seeming nonsensical things are the things precious beyond beliefs or realms.

Thanks for sharing the link Mystic.

[jukai]

Hi Jen,
Thanks for your well thought out post.

Millman discusses the Laws of.... flexibility, choices, responsibility, balance, process, patterns, discipline, perfection, the present moment, no judgment, faith, expectations, honesty, higher will, intuition, action, cycles.
So how aware are you of natural laws in constant motion?

My question is a fairly basic one. Why should we be concerned at all about any such 'laws' (assuming they exist--and I'm not sure that they do)? Isn't that just more conceptual theorization?
Why is it not enough to realize our true nature, rest in that incredible peace and appreciate whatever arises in the present moment? I mean really appreciate it rather than trying to understand it or figure it out.
If we think we've figured anything out then its just more mental stuff. In the end, you don't really know anything at all. ET says something like the limited human mind can never comprehend existence (or something like that). I do worry that LoA and such other 'laws' might be (somewhat dangerous) egoic? distractions that one can get caught up in. (As a disclaimer, let me just say, I don't know anything about LoA--just what I've read on this forum )

So, I think my counter question is: Can one not know anything, be comfortable with that and simply be life? Can one appreciate the mystery, really appreciate it, without trying to solve it?

Hi runstrails,

You echoed, quite beautifully, and exactly, my thoughts on this subject. Also, like you, I don't know the first thing about LoA, but from what I've read/heard, it is something along the lines of "Just think positive thoughts, and everything will turn out ok."

Prior to discovering Eckhart's teachings, I got some exposure to LoA audiobooks, and the material always seemed quite contrived and pointless to me. It seemed like just more unnecessary mind stuff that gets people confused or causes rigid adherence to just another belief system.

I agree with what you've said, totally. I've found that the adding of this kind of "knowledge" just deepens the barrier that keeps me from presence, rather than showing me the path to it. Consequently, I now value the raw experience of life far more than the multiplicity of theories that aim to improve or solve it.

Great post !

[smiileyjen101]

Hi Jukai
I can appreciate it might be tricky to pick up on the joy and connection happening in this thread as it was happening relative to other conversations across the forum at the same time.

Runstrails very much joined in the exploration and journey, my inspiration was that the law of attraction has been both unfairly given precedence over other energy flows and on the flip side become a thing distorted.

This thread really was just a hoot in time you may not have gotten as far as this post from trails -

Runstrails said:
Jen,
You amaze me! You are a true force of nature Thank you for your extensive and illuminating quotes.
I skimmed through the quotes--and they were so intriguing that I went ahead and ordered the Millman book! I like this context better---where we simply make many observations about reality and the context in which it affects us (It fine that he calls them laws--for me they are simply relevant and interesting observations).
So, I'll bite:
The one aspect of reality that seems certain to me---is duality! (Law of duality, if you prefer )
Night follows day. Down follows Up. Happiness follows sadness. Winter follows summer, birth follows death. One is necessary to recognize the other. Now when something happens that I consider "good" (via loA or not ), I know that something else will happen soon enough that I will consider "bad". The energies of the related emotions are complete opposites too. Expansion vs. contraction.

So I embrace this duality and try to simply decrease my judgements of what I consider good or bad and this reduces suffering. Then it makes it fun to experience and watch even as its all unfolding. It's interesting that the ultimate non-dual reality (oneness) and the everyday duality is also a duality, isn't it. Isn't that cool! This makes me think that duality is in the essential nature of true reality (whatever that is).

So with regards to LoA, even if you get what you want--be prepared for something else to occur that you don't want! Gonna happen, no way to avoid it