Apathy

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
Niki
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Re: Apathy

Post by Niki » Mon May 21, 2018 2:41 am

WW, Yes.

Taking the slow boat...

Thank you,
Niki

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turiya
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Re: Apathy

Post by turiya » Mon May 21, 2018 8:08 am

jukai wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 2:57 am
The real challenge, then, is to not take what I do too seriously.
I agree with that! (I'd also add "what I think, feel, and perceive" to that.) :D
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: Apathy

Post by Onceler » Mon May 21, 2018 12:16 pm

I feel you Niki.....looking back I would say all my suffering had a purpose, to at least motivate me to keep up the search. This may be revisionist and sound a bit saccharine, but I think it’s true. But it’s no fun when you are in the middle of it! I feel that if I could find some peace and an end to suffering, anyone can, as I had my black belt in misery.

Hang in there.
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Apathy

Post by Niki » Mon May 21, 2018 2:48 pm

Onceler thank you. Black belt in misery--I like that haha!
Clearly you understand the tug between restlessness, apathy and the tiny bites of pure serenity that I am experiencing.

I watched a youtube video last night with a person I didn't know, mooji (sp?) I think was him name. And he spoke about spiritual teachers being like a laxative for consciousness, getting rid of blockages. It made me laugh and I felt that, in my case at least, it was accurate. You know, on a physical level--not to be too crude here--but when you take a good dump you do feel enlightened!

It is vital to keep the conscious system flowing.

I'm still desperately gripping, clinging, clenching on to stuff. I really don't want to let them go.
But I'm also aware of how ridiculous and insane it is to hold on to this old, stinky stuff....

I think meditating more regularly would be helpful to clearing my system. But lately, I've been resistant and avoiding it...

Thank you!

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Re: Apathy

Post by Webwanderer » Mon May 21, 2018 4:18 pm

You can meditate with your eyes open most anytime you want. Adyashanti calls it 'True Meditation'. It's basically resting in awareness free of thinking, free of labeling, free of analysis, free of judgment. Just observe, perceive, and experience the moment as it is, with all its content. "Be here now" to quote Ram Dass. Breathe easily and deeply. Rest as aware consciousness being many times throughout your day. Enjoy and appreciate. You'll like the experience.

WW

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Re: Apathy

Post by Niki » Mon May 21, 2018 4:29 pm

WW--yes, I'm glad to hear you say this--write it, lol! I do this a lot....I thought I was being overly spacey, or out of it..but I often go into that stillness of no thought. I especially do it on the subway, walking and biking haha!

Do any of you have a 9 to 5 job?
I'm a graphic designer and outside of meetings I can easily 'zone' in my work. I will wear headphones while doing a graphic and listen to ET.

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Re: Apathy

Post by turiya » Tue May 22, 2018 1:48 am

Niki wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 2:48 pm
I watched a youtube video last night with a person I didn't know, mooji (sp?) I think was him name. And he spoke about spiritual teachers being like a laxative for consciousness, getting rid of blockages. It made me laugh and I felt that, in my case at least, it was accurate.
:lol:

Yes, Mooji is a very good teacher, in my opinion! Love his wit and accuracy.
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: Apathy

Post by Niki » Tue May 22, 2018 7:34 pm

I found this one to be very helpful in combatting apathy/fear etc.

https://youtu.be/5Zp-w5uvle8

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Re: Apathy

Post by Sighclone » Fri May 25, 2018 6:59 am

Welcome Niki! Sorry to be a bit late returning to this revived thread.

Your SRIN (Self-referential internal narrative) is bumping along at full tilt. "SRIN" is Gary Weber's phrase to describe his thought-storm before awakening. One of his techniques to shut it down was "Self-inquiry" - a direct path method recommended by Ramana Maharshi among others. Here is Gary's latest blogpost on this topic:
http://happinessbeyondthought.blogspot. ... works.html

Gary's teaching has a lot to recommend it in other ways also.

Be well...the discovery that you do not fear death is actually a favorable step on the way out of your monkey-mind.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Apathy

Post by Onceler » Fri May 25, 2018 12:02 pm

I like the “shit it down” technique quite a lot Andy!
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Apathy

Post by Niki » Fri May 25, 2018 2:35 pm

Hi Andy,

First time I hear of Gary Weber, thanks.

He mentions dopamine in the blog article, I find that interesting because antidepressants work with dopamine....I've been wondering if I should start them up again.

Either way it's always good to 'shit it down' and add some space to all the density of the mind.

Niki

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Re: Apathy

Post by Sighclone » Fri May 25, 2018 7:00 pm

I'd like to think that was a Freudian slip, but it's probably just a typo...I may use it more intentionally in the future, however!

The whole issue of drugs and the mind and awakening is large. Roland Griffiths at Johns Hopkins led a NSF or FDA-grant sponsored program using psilocybin...but I generally avoid suggesting any chemical "encouragement." Their results are interesting - here is one article:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... -of-death/

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Apathy

Post by Niki » Fri May 25, 2018 10:11 pm

Andy,
that's fascinating.
TX

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Re: Apathy

Post by Sighclone » Tue May 29, 2018 1:55 am

Niki -

Many people who approach spiritual awakening do so out of a secret or not-so-secret desire to rid themselves of disorders of the ego (by this I mean all the material in DSM-V, and other obsessions, neuroses, syndromes, etc. that fall under the broad definition of "significantly debilitating mental problems causing suffering.") A number of posters here (and I include myself in earlier years) have waved the flag of awakening / enlightenment to end all of that..."just skip all the traditional talk-therapy and wake up."

I'm much less happy with that as a general recommendation these days. Both Adyashanti and Rupert Spira have sent students to more traditional therapists (especially those with a nondual bent like John Prendergast or John Welwood) for work on their psychological challenges before they will counsel them spiritually. The subconscious does exist and is part of the ego, in fact it can launch suble salvos against awakening as the seeking proceeds.

This is not to say that your life needs to be really great to awaken (Eckhart's certainly wasn't.) But, speaking generally, there appears to be a minimum threshold of self-contentment with "little me" to ultimately cast it off. All that said, sudden and serious events (say, the loss of a child) have been triggers for awakening, also...but that is much rarer, and certainly not a requirement.


Another problem with a big kensho is something Welwood has labelled "spiritual by-passing" by which he means an individual will have a "big spiritual awakening event" and forget to do important things like go to work, and take care of family, etc. There is a discussion of this detour here:
http://www.johnwelwood.com/articles/Embodying.pdf

Welwood's website is great, as is his seminal book "toward a psychology of awakening."

Namaste...

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Apathy

Post by Niki » Tue May 29, 2018 3:28 am

Hi Andy,
What is DSM-V? Department of Smoter Vehicles? :)
Thanks for writting.

From where I sit I see quite a bit of self and self -righteousness in the whole ‘awakening’ project. In truth these spiritual teachers are not saying anything that every human being doesn’t already know. Those who choose not to look deeper do so because they don’t want to—and there is nothing wrong with that. Everybody grows in the precise way they grow. It is impossible—in fact absurd—to judge an individuals spiritual growth.

I happen to like Gabor Mate—he is not considered a spiritual teacher but I view him as one in terms of what his talks do for me.

What I haven’t seen among the spiritual leaders population—and I’ve listened to most who are available on youtube—is one who awakened out of severe abuse or trauma.

And this is where it all falls apart for me and becomes a bit like another middle class bourgeoisie attempt to distinguish oneself as ‘better than’.

There is a conscious and unconscious choice in how much ‘awakening’ we can handle in our life—these things cant be forced nor should they be. But I have observed an awful lot of people who are chasing an illusion that they believe will ‘ save them from themselves’. Ive also seen people behave selfishly all under the cover of ‘following a spiritual path.’
Every single being is a droplet in this vast ocean of life and the ‘awakened’ are not more or less than the ‘unawakened’. Each has what is right in the moment for them at that juncture in their life

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