Wild Wild Country

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Onceler
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Wild Wild Country

Post by Onceler » Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:30 pm

Anyone watching this documentary on Osho? It’s on Netflix and is beyond fascinating. Only saw the first part and not sure where it’s going, but it seems fairly even handed......it has a lot of original footage.
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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by eputkonen » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:29 pm

I have finished it. It was interesting.
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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by CaiHong » Mon May 14, 2018 9:52 pm

hi Oncler
I am 64 and we'll remember the events as they unfolded on the news. I used to hangout with the Rajneeshi's as they were known then.
I really enjoyed the doco, I came away thinking that as a doctor of philosophy and being at the right time he was able to put together his teachings that offered it all. That he was unaware of what was going on in his own community,that his strong denunciation of Sheila didn't sit well with me, there seemed to be something missing that I would like to have seen better explored.
The use and abuse of power is a theme that I find fascinating and how we can be swept along with it and compliant with the gradual loss of human rights for the greater good and protection of the community from outside evil.

ET in one of his talks made reference to some guntoting spiritual community was it that one?

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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by Onceler » Tue May 15, 2018 11:57 am

Hi Carl,

I don’t know about the ET reference, unfortunately this may apply to a number of spiritual communities. I thought it a timely comment on our current xenophobia about anything different, immigrants, etc. the community and Osho were definitely on to something but imploded in a spectacular manner. I remember it as well, vaguely.....I was in my early twenties and had a friend in DC who was part of the community and always wore red.

I wonder about the allegations that Osho was drug addicted. A cautionary tale for sure.
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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by CaiHong » Tue May 15, 2018 10:43 pm

To be quite honest I thought both communities quite awful in their behaviour. The saying "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".
I remember in history class the teacher favouring a benevolent dictatorship as the best form of government, personally a half jokingly say I would prefer a well programmed computer governing me.
The program held my interest because of how the communities dealt with each other and within themselves.
I think this is why I am still such a big fan of The Walking Dead, often defending the show saying it's not just about Zombies that's the subplot, anyway I digress.
Rajneesh comes off as too much of the showman to appeal to my sensibilities ET more to my taste.
As for Rajneesh being on drugs, what kind of drugs was he rumoured to be on?

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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by kiki » Wed May 16, 2018 1:17 am

I pretty much blew off OSHO/Rajneesh when I first heard about him in the 70s because of the bad press he was getting. Plus, I couldn't really understand what he was saying. It wasn't until I had my breakthrough that was triggered by Tolle that I revisited the writings of OSHO, and I found them to be refreshing and quite profound. Suddenly, everything he was saying made sense to me, so I bought his "Book of Secrets" 15 or 16 years ago, and it's a treasure trove of pointers. His clarity was even breathtakingly beautiful at times, and he can be quite entertaining as well.
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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by randomguy » Tue May 22, 2018 12:09 pm

Oh that's about Osho? I will check it out. The trailer got my attention. I really don't know the story of his ranch.
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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by Onceler » Tue May 22, 2018 12:24 pm

Caihong,

There were allegations toward the end of the documentary that he was on drugs given by his personal physician.....so I guess ‘legal’ ones.

Kiki, he may have been a good philosopher, but he definitely made some bad personal choices, especially about who was running his organization, Sheela! Who is a complex character herself and perhaps the more interesting character. Have you seen the documentary? I highly recommend it.
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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by kiki » Tue May 22, 2018 1:07 pm

but he definitely made some bad personal choices, especially about who was running his organization, Sheela!
I have no dispute with this. Yes, he obviously made some decisions that caused one to wonder, and others that did not serve his movement well. That's why I ignored him when all the bad press started to emerge.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by randomguy » Sat May 26, 2018 11:21 pm

I'm less than half way through the third of six parts.

Osho must have had quite a powerful personal charismatic presence. People go gaga over him. I never clicked with his videos or writing and understand that his is loved. I understand people get a lot out of his videos still. For me, I think he's a bit off.

The scene where Bhagwan is pumping up the crowd seems pretty telling. He was like a "rock star" those interviewed said. Contrast that scene with video clips of Ramana Maharshi at Arunachala. Imagine Tolle riling up a crowd, stirring up an emotional frenzy, walking among a celebrating crowd drawing his hands toward himself asking to turn up the energy. Tolle says something to the effect in many talks I have heard that 'there is nothing going on here, there is nothing interesting for the mind here'. Not to say all teachers should behave a certain way yet he seems to enjoy his status and fame. Why not, one may ask? Ok, why not? Fair enough.

This short video clip pretty much sums up Osho for me. In it he dismisses Buddha's quote, "Be a light upon yourself," and says "Be a joke upon yourself." He says "You are all jokes upon yourselves."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kulGJ5wZSDM

Yes, he's being funny and clever and having fun. I get that. Yet there are a few things about this.

1. There is an undercurrent message which is; Bhagwan better than Buddha. He says "What are you going to do with a light, light a cigar?" Is that an earnest effort to address that pointer, really? It implies he's got something over on Buddha.
2. There is no direct pointer, just a preference in behavior. I get that it it's a message about having fun and promoting bliss. But it's unfounded except in his preference. And that doesn't matter at all about finding the truth for one's self.
3. If he truly applied his own advice to himself would he have maintain the "rock star" guru role? Did he say I am a joke and you are a joke, don't take me of any importance but find out for yourself? 'Find out for yourself' is essentially the message of 'Be a light upon yourself'. Maybe Osho liked people being attached to him? I think it reveals he either didn't fully get it or did and chose to enjoy playing to a large degree at the expense of his followers. From what I have seen he appeared to have a stickier relationship with his devotees than many other sages that didn't run into the same trouble he did.
Last edited by randomguy on Sun May 27, 2018 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by Onceler » Sun May 27, 2018 1:13 pm

I get what you’re saying. It’s definitely a cult of personality. As soon as you become a guru, and that is a contract you enter volitionally, all kind of things are projected onto you by your followers and in essence you become trapped in those projections. Wild, wild country shows this trajectory really well.

To me, a true teacher has no followers. He or she simply live a life free of fear that has a subtle or profound effect on those who encounter them. They turn aside projections and allow no one to follow them. They are all around us.
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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by randomguy » Sun May 27, 2018 5:45 pm

Onceler wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 1:13 pm
To me, a true teacher has no followers. He or she simply live a life free of fear that has a subtle or profound effect on those who encounter them. They turn aside projections and allow no one to follow them. They are all around us.
That's right, very nice.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by randomguy » Wed May 30, 2018 1:17 am

I'm 1/2 way through the 5th of 6 episodes now. Gosh, this gets ugly.

...

The ending has some sweetness to it. I thought it was well done.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by Onceler » Wed May 30, 2018 12:15 pm

Yeah, amazing,huh?
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Re: Wild Wild Country

Post by Sighclone » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:41 am

I visited Antelope during Osho's "reign." Went to the "Zorba the Buddha" restaurant. And watched this 6-part series. A very good friend practiced law with Phillip Toelkes, the lawyer who narrates most of it. My visit was perfunctory - I was with my uncle. The Rahjneeshees were all about themselves, had little interest in visitors. The food was poor.

I have also read a fair amount of Osho's writings, and agree with Kiki that he probably had an authentic experience of awakening, and could write well on nondual topics. But he was always a rebel, as a personality - an iconoclast, a dissident. His awakening experience is riveting (here: https://realization.org/p/osho/my-awakening.html). But his first step after awakening is criminal trespass in a garden. My point is that personality continues, with relatively modest change in style or content. He used people and was used. Toelkes negotiated a relatively painless departure. The courts were relatively lenient on those arrested.

Toelkes talks about unconditional acceptance - perhaps that is something he badly needed. His website is here: http://www.nirenconsciouscoaching.com/


The beat goes on...

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A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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