Can anyone help me, please?

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Sighclone
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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Sighclone » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:59 pm

Of course you are unique in your body-mind-personality...in your style, preferences and skills......in the relative world (maya.) Even after awakening, even before awakening, even during awakening. At your age, according to Eckhart, you are still ruled by your ego. He was very clear on this in one of the Oprah webinars in 2009. So awakening, in his opinion, is unlikely for a few years, for you. You can have all kinds of conceptual ideas about enlightenment, which is the natural capacity/experience to recognize your ultimate identity as Presence/Source/Unity, etc. For you, this is a concept, not an experience. Kind of like riding a bike - a five-year old looks at that with great excitement. And you have read about it a great length. But not one of those readings and conceptual understandings has resulted in a personal experience for you that is convincing, so you are stuck with cognitive dissonance: what you feel to be "the natural you" (who enjoys people, doing good things, is attracted to women) is confronted by the work of all sort of mystical writers who talk about this Presence/Source that is far larger and more inclusive than "little you," your relative-world identity as pabl.

And this dissonance is a cause of great suffering for you. ET talks about suffering: either accept, change or leave the cause. My recommendation is to accept the cause: "I have not awakened, so I'm just my old self until that happens. I'm not comfortable with the existential anomie of "everything is meaningless nothingness", so I'm going to discard that as simply a philosophy that is "not working for me today." While the Void may have some morbid appeal to some people, it does not describe the actual experience of Self-realization, because it misses the bliss and comfort of the event/experience. After awakening there is lila in maya (Google that.) It is also about the tenth bull of Zen (not the other nine.)

However, since awakening is real, and you are very interested in it, I encourage you to find a teacher/guru who resonates for you...and it will probably be someone who is more than just books and blogs...an actual human being. Shop around - I'd say start with the speakers at the SAND (Science and Nonduality Conference.) I'm sure there is someone near you home. But you wlll have to do some work to find one.

In fact, you can use your comfort as "same old 'me'" as a strength. Accept that you have not had the experience and find sadhanas and a teacher that will help you to shift. Meanwhile don't beat yourself up. Accept what is.

Relationships can actually grow and develop after awakening - read Amoda Maa's book on this - Welwood also has some material on his website. But you really don't need to worry about that now, just be your old self, own the personality strengths there (which there are), ignore philosophers who tell you that you are deluded.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

pabl692
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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:28 pm

Thanks for that, Andy. I think I need to stay away from that forum. The aggression and mockery is unreal, for people who are supposed to be pursuing this path.

I got the point where I was thinking that everything is just an illusion of my mind. I'm not real. Proper aren't real. I create them. When I can't see them they don't exist. They're just illusions. I've got a severe flu and I ran out of paracetamol. My mother said she'd drop me some off. I keep thinking, did she even go to a supermarket? Or did she just appear in my own mind? That is scary. Please tell me this isn't true. I feel like I'm going mad.

It's hard to just return to my old life. I know I can't go on like this.

On that forum they keep saying things like if you're sad that your mother has cancer, it's an illusion. Before I even investigated all this stuff, I would have said it would be natural to grieve the passing of your mother. But it is what it is, you can still be generally happy with your life even if your mother passes. There's nothing more egoic, to me at least, not to feel emotions. You just don't have to revel in them and make it something it isnt.

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by turiya » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:32 am

pabl692 wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:28 pm
I got the point where I was thinking that everything is just an illusion of my mind. I'm not real. Proper aren't real. I create them. When I can't see them they don't exist. They're just illusions. I've got a severe flu and I ran out of paracetamol. My mother said she'd drop me some off. I keep thinking, did she even go to a supermarket? Or did she just appear in my own mind? That is scary. Please tell me this isn't true. I feel like I'm going mad.
It's not true that everyone and everything is created by your finite mind. That would be called solipsism.

Rupert Spira does a good job explaining the difference between solipsism and non-duality in this video:

https://youtu.be/a2anz9QKD7Y

Hope this helps. :wink:
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Sighclone » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:27 am

I keep thinking, did she even go to a supermarket? Or did she just appear in my own mind? That is scary. Please tell me this isn't true. I feel like I'm going mad.
Way beyond my skill set and so forth. You will need professional help. I wish you well.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:55 am

pabl692 wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:28 pm
I got the point where I was thinking that everything is just an illusion of my mind. I'm not real. Proper aren't real. I create them. When I can't see them they don't exist. They're just illusions. I've got a severe flu and I ran out of paracetamol. My mother said she'd drop me some off. I keep thinking, did she even go to a supermarket? Or did she just appear in my own mind? That is scary. Please tell me this isn't true. I feel like I'm going mad.
You can't possibly understand these claims of illusion from the context of the human perspective in which you are trying to do so. Just stop. It won't work. The nature and value of the illusion is only understood from the perspective of that which created it. We might, at best, get a glimpse of it. Mostly it's beyond our human comprehension. It's designed that way in our best interest from That which loves us as Itself. Trust that your best interests are imperative to the Designer. You fear and fight it at your own peril. Relax. You're going to be okay without worrying about the structure. It's being created for you, not to you.

Here is a truth: Illusion or not, the experience is real (even though it be the experience of the illusion) and that's where you live at this time - in the experience. I urge you to live in the experience as best you can and stop worrying about its viability. You're having an intense experience at the moment are you not? Isn't your pain and suffering real? You feel it don't you? Even though it's about something that others claim, and you fear, is not real? That is the message to take from this.

I understand a whole lot more about it than you do and I still live in the experience in the same way I'm encouraging you to do. The experience of life is what matters most, not the structure that your trying to comprehend. Let it go and play some video games. If you still can't let it go, then take some courses in quantum physics. A clear understanding of this emerging field will help you get your head around it.

Torturing yourself with things you just don't understand is not helpful. And I tell you, most of the people who tout it don't understand it either. For many it's just the latest clever thing to amuse themselves with. A cool shiny object that makes them feel superior. Don't fall into the trap. Go have some fun in the experience of life - however it's created.

WW

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Sighclone » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:00 pm

Great link to Spira comments, spot on - thanks, turiya!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:44 pm

WW - Before I even started reading about this, that is sort of how I lived. Who knows how we got here etc, I'm just going to enjoy the ride.

But like I said, this thought entered my head yesterday and I can't let it go. I know that a lot of spiritual people don't believe in things such as OCD, but it feels just like all my previous OCD experiences. But with this, I get a feeling it won't go, so I'm freaking out.

I know it's solipsism. But how can I prove it isn't true?

Are my friends and family human being with their own minds... Or is it all my mind creating a crazy story? Literally everything could be a crazy story created by my mind. Even these replies on this forum, they could just be a part of my mind making it all up.

At the same time, the other half of me can see how ridiculous this is. But the 'feeling' won't shift in my head, which is what it is normally like with my OCD.

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by turiya » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:57 am

pabl692 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:44 pm
I know it's solipsism. But how can I prove it isn't true?
Becoming aware of what is aware of your finite mind (i.e. your passing thoughts, feelings, perceptions) might be a good place to start in discovering what is and isn't true.
pabl692 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:44 pm
But the 'feeling' won't shift in my head, which is what it is normally like with my OCD.
Just watch the feeling. Then ask yourself, "Am I this feeling? Or am I the awareness of this feeling?"

This might help to instigate a "shift" in your head.

Good luck to you! :wink:
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Dcdc » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:03 pm

Sighclone wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:59 pm
At your age, according to Eckhart, you are still ruled by your ego.
I'm 26. I hope he's wrong hehehehehe. :D

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Sighclone » Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:46 pm

I'm sure there is a spectrum, Dcs. Perhaps for you, the capacity to see through ego has arrived earlier!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:12 pm

My issue is I love life. So much that I never want it to end. But it will end. I am guaranteed to die, and then there will be nothing. The world will one day end, as will the universe. It is guaranteed to happen, so really, it already has. I've noticed how everything comes and goes, nothing lasts forever. Everything I ever looked forward to passes. We are already dead, in a sense.

If I was told that the universe will just expand and expand for infinity, I could accept that. I could accept death then. I'd be playing my part in the evolution of mankind and its civilisation. In a way, you'd live forever. But nothing does, unfortunately.

I do not believe I am a spirit in a human monkey suit, I'm sorry. I wish I was. I'd love nothing more than to believe that when my body dies, I could still observe everything and spend eternity with the people I love. I think spirituality is just something we made up, as human primates, to try and come to terms with the harsh reality of our existence. Humans love to tell stories. We've developed the technology to show that the universe really isn't all about us.

I recently met a girl, and she's only increased my love for life. I know, my attachment levels are through the roof and this is bad. I don't care. She's wonderful and the moments spent with her is my idea of heaven. And it breaks my heart that this will all be gone soon, if it already hasn't.

You can call it nihilism, you can call it what you want. You can also say that I have the power to create my own meaning. I've tried, and tried and tried. But it trumps everything. I feel completely hopeless.

I'm currently sat at work contemplating how I can end this. I'm really at breaking point. Why delay the inevitable? The longer I live, the more I'll love everything, making the heartbreak even worse. I love the world, but I hate it. I don't believe the universe is all loving and all knowing. Because this is a sick, sick joke.

Give me reasons to live. Because I can't find any.

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Dcdc » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:16 pm

pabl692 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:12 pm
My issue is I love life. So much that I never want it to end. But it will end. I am guaranteed to die, and then there will be nothing. The world will one day end, as will the universe. It is guaranteed to happen, so really, it already has. I've noticed how everything comes and goes, nothing lasts forever. Everything I ever looked forward to passes. We are already dead, in a sense.

If I was told that the universe will just expand and expand for infinity, I could accept that. I could accept death then. I'd be playing my part in the evolution of mankind and its civilisation. In a way, you'd live forever. But nothing does, unfortunately.

I do not believe I am a spirit in a human monkey suit, I'm sorry. I wish I was. I'd love nothing more than to believe that when my body dies, I could still observe everything and spend eternity with the people I love. I think spirituality is just something we made up, as human primates, to try and come to terms with the harsh reality of our existence. Humans love to tell stories. We've developed the technology to show that the universe really isn't all about us.

I recently met a girl, and she's only increased my love for life. I know, my attachment levels are through the roof and this is bad. I don't care. She's wonderful and the moments spent with her is my idea of heaven. And it breaks my heart that this will all be gone soon, if it already hasn't.

You can call it nihilism, you can call it what you want. You can also say that I have the power to create my own meaning. I've tried, and tried and tried. But it trumps everything. I feel completely hopeless.

I'm currently sat at work contemplating how I can end this. I'm really at breaking point. Why delay the inevitable? The longer I live, the more I'll love everything, making the heartbreak even worse. I love the world, but I hate it. I don't believe the universe is all loving and all knowing. Because this is a sick, sick joke.

Give me reasons to live. Because I can't find any.
I agree with you in some points. :- )

But, from my point of view, you are missing one: you are an event that is happening. You will never die. "Die" is a concept created by a human mind, and there is even a technical discussion about which moment we can say that someone died. What is going to happen is: "you", as the rest of the world as well, will just transform into another events. In fact, this already happens every second: your body changes every second, you need oxygen, food, water, to defecate, to urinate, etc. The carbon and iron atoms that are in your body at this time, for example, exist in the world literally since forever.

Nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed - literally.

What is going to die isn't you, but only the mental product that you identify with as you. In another words: the persona you think you are.

If you really get it - not in a rational way, but through your own experience -, life becomes easy, pleasant and light. Based on the assumption that you really understood it, if you love life and if you are alive now, why are you suffering for what your mind is telling/anticipating to you? Please, take a breath and try to understand how insane this actually is. What problems do you have right now?

You will never die. Nothing dies. These are concepts we literally created. It's so arbitrary that we even have difficulty saying when a person is technically dead and when he can technically already be considered a human being who was born.

-

You know, in english you have these two words: "busy" and "worried", right? So, in my language, these words are written very similar to each other. The difference between them in my language is that "worried" is written as if it was a "pre" "busy" stage. In English, it would be: "busy" and "pre-busy". And it makes sense, right? Because when we are worried, we are anticipating a moment that we will be "busy".

Do not get "pre-busy". Wake up! Stay here now and just be!

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:51 pm

I'm suffering because I do love this life and I love my loved ones. And it breaks my heart to think that, as humans, we are going to cease to exist. All our memories and experiences together WILL die. It kills me.

We ARE humans. We inhabit a wonderful planet. But it can't go on forever. It makes my life feel completely pointless and I sometimes feel like I'm already dead as we age so fast.

Science tells us that the universe will end. And while that isn't a concern to me now, it makes me feel like my life is pointless.

If someone told me that the universe will expand forever and that it will never die and would be able to sustain human life forever then I could drop this right now. Think how heartbreaking it is to think that every single experience and the people you love will fade into nothing. If humans could be sustained forever in this universe then we have something to live for and we are just playing our part. But the science doesn't agree.

Of course you was born. Can you remember before you were born? I doubt it. Yes your atoms will morph into other things and won't be destroyed.

I guess I just need to try and make the best of my time here and love my loved ones more than ever. I just love the world and human race. I love you all, I don't want this to end for any of us.

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by pabl692 » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:49 pm

My point is, in my opinion, it's clear to see how we are all human. We all have our own experience. And being human is great. The world is a harsh place, but we can make it better. It just seems a shame that we are all going to die and our memories will too.

It's raining here in England. I love just sitting and listening to it. Even things like that make it such a pleasure to be a human being. I don't want the human race to just live on in obscure particle form.

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Re: Can anyone help me, please?

Post by Sighclone » Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:54 pm

Warring with reality is a recipe for misery. It's a choice. If you make that choice and hold fast to it, you will suffer. It's up to you.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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