Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

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Cyath
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Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Post by Cyath » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:00 am

So I've led a long and interesting life and have had my eyes forcibly opened to the existence of Spirit in many ways and forms. Tolle is by no means new to me, and I think he has a lot of good points, but I am not sure whether I 100% believe everything and whether he is really enlightened or not.



I don't mean to disrespect the man, just that I think it's prudent to take everything with a grain of salt.



So if our inner purpose is to awaken and it doesn't matter what our outer purpose is...well, we all still have to make a living and pay the bills right? Will the Universe just grant us everything we want after awakening?

I have indeed experienced periods of deep inner peace and going within the body, which is why I think he is on to something. I'm not sure it is completely possible to disidentify from the mind though?



3. He doesn't seem very specific on how to continue living on in a world where most people are unawakened even if you are awakening/awakening (and I don't think I am THAT good...)



4. It's nice to think on how all challenges that everyone experiences are the Universe awakening itself though :)

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Webwanderer
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Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Mar 12, 2019 6:38 am

Tolle is by no means new to me, and I think he has a lot of good points, but I am not sure whether I 100% believe everything and whether he is really enlightened or not.
Welcome to the forum Cyath.

I agree that believing any teaching 100 per cent is mostly a mistake. (I believe that 100 per cent! :lol: ) Er... back on topic... Anyway, a 100 per cent belief in anything tends to lock one out of a larger understanding. Why consider additional possibilities if you're already certain 100 per cent? That said, the other extreme of taking his teachings with 'a grain of salt' seems also counter productive. A whole lot of people have had life changing experiences through consideration of his teaching. That's pretty good evidence that something substantive is going on.

A better road suggests that one might take any teachings that brings us a sense of expansion as to its self-evident value toward our exploration of this human experience. No one is getting off this merry go round of life simply by awakening to the understanding that we are not what we 'think' we are. While valuable in moderating emotional engagement, and making sense out of the events and conditions of our lives, awakening is not the end of anything so much as it is a better way of looking at life in general.

Is Tolle 'enlightened'? In my opinion, yes and no. He certainly seems enlightened compared to where he was before he had his initial awakening experience. The books he has written and the teachings he's offered, point to a much clearer understanding than was present in his earlier life. But does he know everything? I doubt it.

Many on this forum, and elsewhere, have reported awakenings of their own. Is that the end of further growth in clarity? Not likely. I strongly suspect it's that way for Tolle too.

Over my time in the forum, I've written a fair number of insightful posts. Some readers might even agree with me... Those insights seem to come best when I get quiet and feel the flow of clarity that has grown over the years. Is that enlightenment? Like with Tolle, yes and no. I certainly know more than I did in earlier years, but then life still has its challenges. Maybe the challenges are a bit different, but seem no less numerous. I perceive it is that way for many.

WW

Dcdc
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Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Post by Dcdc » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:16 pm

Cyath wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:00 am
So I've led a long and interesting life and have had my eyes forcibly opened to the existence of Spirit in many ways and forms. Tolle is by no means new to me, and I think he has a lot of good points, but I am not sure whether I 100% believe everything and whether he is really enlightened or not.



I don't mean to disrespect the man, just that I think it's prudent to take everything with a grain of salt.



So if our inner purpose is to awaken and it doesn't matter what our outer purpose is...well, we all still have to make a living and pay the bills right? Will the Universe just grant us everything we want after awakening?

I have indeed experienced periods of deep inner peace and going within the body, which is why I think he is on to something. I'm not sure it is completely possible to disidentify from the mind though?



3. He doesn't seem very specific on how to continue living on in a world where most people are unawakened even if you are awakening/awakening (and I don't think I am THAT good...)



4. It's nice to think on how all challenges that everyone experiences are the Universe awakening itself though :)
Hello. :- )

In my opinion, this kind of questions happens everytime we use language/form/rationalization in order to try to mentally understand what these "presence/non-dualism/meditation" teachings truly and really are about.

In another words: these teachings were and are discussed by several different sources: buddhism (and its different schools), independent authors, etc. But can you understand that when we put these teaching into words, we are putting them into form? We are trying to explain something that is beyond/previous to form using literally a form we created: the language.

A zen master and sensei in my country tells a great history about this. When he was a student-monk in Japan, he asked to his master: "If language is form, a thing that we mentally created, why a lot of monks, masters and teachers write and talk about these teachings?", and his teacher answerd wonderfully: "Because that's all we have." In another words, think/talk/write about these teachings can give some insights and can help us to realize a little better what all this really are about. But, when we think/talk/write about these teachings, in the best scenario we will just do some kind of rational approximation. As the real universe are actually non-dualistic (we, using our mind, that separate individual, objects and events), these teachings are beyond/previous to form. So, you will never encounter some writing/speaching about this that is 100% "correct" and "coherent". That's why is so difficult to think about it.

I can be wrong, but in my opinion it's very good for you to read and hear about it, because you will have a lot of "a-ha" moments using that tool. But, in the end, we just have to bring our selves to the present moment the most that we can and experience what this practice actually is about. Drop every rule, concept, thinking about everything you every heard about it, and just be present the most you can.

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Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Post by turiya » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:34 am

Dcs wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:16 pm
So if our inner purpose is to awaken and it doesn't matter what our outer purpose is...well, we all still have to make a living and pay the bills right? Will the Universe just grant us everything we want after awakening?
Yes, when we live in alignment with our inner/primary purpose, we will still have to make a living and pay our bills... but these activities will no longer be just a means to an end (which sooner or later creates suffering... maybe in the form of anxiety, fatigue, irritation, boredom, etc.). Instead, these actions (...all actions) will be empowered with Presence (meaning that there will be great quality, care, and attention in what is being done, no matter how simple the action is).

When we are Present/"awake", there is a deep peace/sense of fulfillment (it may appear to be subtle, or strong, or seeming to fluctuate between the two... but it's undeniably there). This peace/fulfillment is the "joy of Being" or "true happiness."

Whenever we want something, don't we want it because we think it will make us happy/fulfill us?... So, essentially, we don't want anything other than to be happy, right?... When we are Present/"awake"/fulfilling our inner purpose, we see that we already have the one and only thing we ever really wanted... Therefore, we could say that the Universe has granted us everything we wanted. :D
Dcs wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:16 pm
I have indeed experienced periods of deep inner peace and going within the body, which is why I think he is on to something. I'm not sure it is completely possible to disidentify from the mind though?
It isn't possible to be identified with the mind and feel deep inner peace. So, when you "went within the body" and experienced deep inner peace, you weren't identified with your mind. So, you've directly experienced that it's completely possible. :wink:
Dcs wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:16 pm
He doesn't seem very specific on how to continue living on in a world where most people are unawakened even if you are awakening
These videos might be helpful:

1. How to deal with unconscious people:

https://youtu.be/lqr98O8QT3M

2. A short, sweet one on how to stay present in your everyday life:

https://youtu.be/_bDSN7d1Z4c

As for whether or not Eckhart is enlightened, I don't think anyone can say for sure one way or the other... (I think this is true for anyone, not just Eckhart... I mean, who's to say, right?). However, he certainly seems to be coming from a place of deep peace, sincere kindness, and great gentleness... And his teachings have helped me out tremendously (as I'm sure is true for many, many others)... So, I'm not sure if it even matters if he's technically "enlightened" or not... (whatever being "technically enlightened" means :lol:).
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

Dcdc
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Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Post by Dcdc » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:30 pm

turiya wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:34 am
Dcs wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:16 pm
So if our inner purpose is to awaken and it doesn't matter what our outer purpose is...well, we all still have to make a living and pay the bills right? Will the Universe just grant us everything we want after awakening?
Yes, when we live in alignment with our inner/primary purpose, we will still have to make a living and pay our bills... but these activities will no longer be just a means to an end (which sooner or later creates suffering... maybe in the form of anxiety, fatigue, irritation, boredom, etc.). Instead, these actions (...all actions) will be empowered with Presence (meaning that there will be great quality, care, and attention in what is being done, no matter how simple the action is).

When we are Present/"awake", there is a deep peace/sense of fulfillment (it may appear to be subtle, or strong, or seeming to fluctuate between the two... but it's undeniably there). This peace/fulfillment is the "joy of Being" or "true happiness."

Whenever we want something, don't we want it because we think it will make us happy/fulfill us?... So, essentially, we don't want anything other than to be happy, right?... When we are Present/"awake"/fulfilling our inner purpose, we see that we already have the one and only thing we ever really wanted... Therefore, we could say that the Universe has granted us everything we wanted. :D
Dcs wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:16 pm
I have indeed experienced periods of deep inner peace and going within the body, which is why I think he is on to something. I'm not sure it is completely possible to disidentify from the mind though?
It isn't possible to be identified with the mind and feel deep inner peace. So, when you "went within the body" and experienced deep inner peace, you weren't identified with your mind. So, you've directly experienced that it's completely possible. :wink:
Dcs wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:16 pm
He doesn't seem very specific on how to continue living on in a world where most people are unawakened even if you are awakening
These videos might be helpful:

1. How to deal with unconscious people:

https://youtu.be/lqr98O8QT3M

2. A short, sweet one on how to stay present in your everyday life:

https://youtu.be/_bDSN7d1Z4c

As for whether or not Eckhart is enlightened, I don't think anyone can say for sure one way or the other... (I think this is true for anyone, not just Eckhart... I mean, who's to say, right?). However, he certainly seems to be coming from a place of deep peace, sincere kindness, and great gentleness... And his teachings have helped me out tremendously (as I'm sure is true for many, many others)... So, I'm not sure if it even matters if he's technically "enlightened" or not... (whatever being "technically enlightened" means :lol:).
Hello, turiya. I guess you quoted the wrong person, hehehehe. Who said these were Cyath. :- )

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turiya
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Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Post by turiya » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:10 pm

Lol! Oops.
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

Alicia
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Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Post by Alicia » Sat Apr 27, 2019 2:32 pm

In my view, it would be a mistake to focus on the teacher rather than what the teacher is offering based on his own personal experiences and inner truth. It's like the saying, look at the moon, not at the finger pointing at the moon. Each person is going to have their own personal experiences and present what works for them in their own unique way. It is up to those of us who listen to the offerings to reflect on whether they resonate deep within or not. We're all different, and as someone else said, language is limited (language is one 'finger'!) so we need to rely on our inner intuition and experiences. Asking whether ET is truly enlightened is kind of pointless, what does enlightened mean anyway? It likely means something different to each person. If you need to ask anything of the teacher, simply ask if they seem genuine, are speaking from their heart and their deep truth. That is the signal that maybe there's some gold to be found if you're ready to start digging within. Hope this makes sense.

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Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Post by kiki » Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:31 pm

Well said, Alicia.
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Re: Not 100% onboard with everything Tolle says, but he has a lot of good points. Open to discuss.

Post by PureLand » Sun May 26, 2019 6:44 pm

Yes, it is possible to completely disidentify from the mind.A person can understand that permanent disidentification from the mind is possible with experience in spirituality-even before getting to that point permanently. But there is something even further than that. It is like getting to the top of the mountain. There is whole sky beyond that. There is whole universe beyond that..That's why enlightenment is a controversial topic.

But that doesn't mean that the top of the mountain doesn't mean anything. It means the end of the suffering and permanent happiness. As we see the human world- which is mostly suffering based-the top of the mountain is indeed liberation.

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