thoughts

Here you may share how the words Eckhart Tolle have affected your life.
payal
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thoughts

Post by payal » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:19 pm

HI Guys i hope you are all doing well. I have a queation and i wud be ever so grateful for your advice and input.
What can you do when your thougts become really destructive? I mean they are jusr so painful and they hurt. When im inside my body they do slow down but a part of me keeps wandering when they will change and be more positive or just more friendly-I keep telling myself that i am not my thougths but at times it just doesn't help. i cant help but to be identified with them and they cause so much suffering. What can i do?

Please help if you can

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kiki
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Post by kiki » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:32 pm

What says you have to believe the thoughts that arise? Just because they are there doesn't mean they carrying any real meaning. So here is a little asssignment for you: Give yourself permission to totally disbelieve any thought that arises, even the "positive" ones. Start with 5 minutes and take it from there. Discover that your world will not fall apart if you simply begin to drop belief in anything that arises within the mind.
When im inside my body they do slow down but a part of me keeps wandering when they will change and be more positive or just more friendly-
That's the ego at work, wanting things its way. Have you located the ego yet? Can you tell me what it is?
I keep telling myself that i am not my thougths but at times it just doesn't help. i cant help but to be identified with them and they cause so much suffering. What can i do?
Telling yourself isn't enough - you have to actually see/realize that what you are is not thought based, but that which witnesses thought. Discover this consciousness for what it is. Nobody can tell you what it is, you have to realize what it is for yourself.

Edited to add: Welcome to the board.

payal
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Post by payal » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:12 pm

kiki thank u so very much i feel so much love in my heart and so much warmth after reading your response. Thank you so much for your help.

Im not sure what u mean by have i located the ego? I am aware of the ego being a mind based entity- a identity that is made up by thougths and does not really exist

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Post by payal » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:18 pm

i underatand what u mean by one has to discover consciousness for what it is worth- actually realizing it for what it is. I dnt think i have truely felt it yet. But thank u so much for ur help. I will work with ur advice straight away abt not believing them.

Thanks a lot

xxx

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Post by kiki » Sat Sep 22, 2007 10:58 pm

Im not sure what u mean by have i located the ego? I am aware of the ego being a mind based entity- a identity that is made up by thougths and does not really exist
What I mean is to actually look for it. See if you can find something substantial and stable, something that doesn't change that is "ego". Look to find it; see if it is actually real or only imagined to be real. This is self-inquiry, ask - "What am I really?" and then look.

You have to see/realize through direct investigation that all that is found are ideas of self and the consciousness in which those ideas appear. Seeing clearly that you aren't the ideas, what remains? Isn't it simply the "knowingness"/light/awareness that is termed "consciousness"? What is the nature of that consciousness beneath the ideas? How do you know that it is present? In other words, distinguish between the nature of consciousness and the expressions within it.

This is the difference between realization, which is immediate and direct, and understanding, which is mentally based. Realization is wordless direct "knowing"/seeing, while understanding relies on concepts/ideas of the mind.

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darren
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Post by darren » Sun Sep 23, 2007 2:07 am

I wouldn't worry about having crazy thoughts, we all have them sometimes. Having crazy thoughts doesn't make you crazy, acting them out does.

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Post by shappy » Sun Sep 23, 2007 3:09 am

Hi payal.

Eckhart Tolle talks too much. They all talk too much. This is simple. Simple, simple, simple.

Allow me to feed you another (incomplete) concept...

You can't be anything that you can see, hear, taste, smell, or touch. You can't be something that you can feel (an emotion). You can't be something that you have thought up. You can't be something that you can use. You can't be anything that you can imagine.

I trust that after reading all the books that you have read, consumed the teachings of every possible teacher that you have been exposed to, and anything else linked to your own "spiritual path", that you have heard something similar to the aforementioned concepts.

If not, let me break it down... If you can imagine something, then you can't be it. Why? Because there has to be an imaginator. But even then you can't be that (because you can imagine an imaginator!) So you can't be the imagined, the imaginator, or imagination itself.

Try this simple excercise:
- look around your room and pick up any object in your hand (just a "simple" one).
-- are you this object? No, obviously not. You're looking at it, holding it, so how can you be it.

- go to the mirror and look at your body
-- are you your body? No, obviously not. You're looking at it, you can touch it, etc, so how can you be it.

- now think/feel something (some nasty fear that you may have).
-- are you this thought/feeling? No, obviously not. You are thinking/feeling it, so how can you be it.

- now use your mind
-- well, you're always using your mind, but let's continue with the formalities: What's 8*8? There, you used your mind. Are you your mind? No, obviously not. You just used it.

- now imagine something, ANYTHING (like a giant purple toe with feet... haha, whatever!)
-- are you this... thing? No, obviously not. You just imagined it.

So what are you?

You simply are. "Oh no", ponders payal, "what does he mean by that?". You simply are, payal, you're doing it right now. You were always doing it.

It's that easy. It's so subtle, yet so simple.

suraj
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Post by suraj » Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:50 am

Very well said Shappy !
I have still much to learn .
I AM

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NoordZee
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Post by NoordZee » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:11 am

An interesting post, Shappy. Yes, the simpler we can make it, the better and quicker people will understand it. I must admit that my head spins at times when I am listening to sound or video recordings about this subject. I often have to admit to myself that I do not understand what the speaker is on about. I am not saying that I do not understand ET, but some teachers lose me instantly.

Thank you for this simplified approach.
"Veritas vos liberabit"

marshall21
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Post by marshall21 » Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:16 am

Hi Payal

It was great the way you described the entire experience. However, when I read your post and noticed the words you had used, it only made me wonder. I guess we always making things complicated. Thats ego..or the mind...right??

I am no master or guru but having read some of the masters and tried to incorporate a little bit of their wisdom in my life I would like to share something from my personal experience.

I suggest whenever you have the sudden surge of negative thoughts in you, you just close your eyes and sit. If you want to take a few deep breaths do that and that really helps. But beyond that just witness the thoughts. Here is the big part...

In your post you say that "you keep wondering if they will change.."
Now is it not the same thought which is saying or wondering this. You say.."I try to affirm to myself that I am not my thoughts...". Is it again not a thought that says this. If you sit down and witness your thoughts..there comes a time when the so called "good side of mind" comes in and tells you...see that is a bad thought...see that is ego in you...see im not my thoughts...if you see deeply..you would notice that the mind has come from the backdoor telling you to say Im not my thoughts, That is the ego in me..Even the fact when you spot..so to speak...a thought as a thought is another thought. Therefore, when you witness, you realize every sound in your head..whether good, bad, spiritual are still aspects of the mind masquerading as witness. When you actually see it (not spot it), you understand that every noise , even ET's talk or affirmation is still the mind, at that time you understand, it is like one side of mind is trying to conquer the another and therefore the conflict. When you see every voice, good, bad, spotter, discriminator, judge, recognizer..is all mind and its a trap of the mind...suddenly the mind becomes still. But the moment you tell yourself..see it has become till...trust me...it is again mind talking masquerading as the witness.
Krishnamurti gave an amazing analogy during one of his talks. He was talking to a group and said that all these negative feelings and drives are little tigers inside of you. Therefore, seeing the danger, what does one do? One option is get a bigger tiger which will drive them away. Then one must realize the bigger tiger is equally dangerous and it is the same creation..only for the time being masquerading as the saviour. To conclude, Krishnamurti would often use the phrase..."the observer is the observed"..that is...when you witness, you realize the portion that is trying to exhort ET's talk in you so as to get rid of the negative feelings is still another thought..that is one tiger trying to drive away the another.

I am saying this from experience...witnessing helps...

Hope I did not become too verbose and hope that you were able to understand...

Take care and keep witnessing

marshall

payal
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Post by payal » Mon Sep 24, 2007 1:19 pm

Dearest Marshall,

I can even begin to tell u how much you reply has helped and made sense to me. I feel i am a lot more alert. I am realizing that even when i think i am the witness i am actually the mind again!! thats such a relif and quite funny too. It is such a smart instrument.
This has helped so much. Just a moment ago, i had a 'bad' thought that would have hurt so much a couple of days ago, but i was more able to watch it with ease. I think im finally able to disidentify with the thougths. It is getting easier to not believe them. Im starting to realize that i really am not the thought- not even close to it

Thanks a million.

lots of love

Payal
xx

fifi
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Post by fifi » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:36 pm

shappy wrote:Hi payal.

Eckhart Tolle talks too much. They all talk too much. This is simple. Simple, simple, simple.

Allow me to feed you another (incomplete) concept...

You can't be anything that you can see, hear, taste, smell, or touch. You can't be something that you can feel (an emotion). You can't be something that you have thought up. You can't be something that you can use. You can't be anything that you can imagine.

I trust that after reading all the books that you have read, consumed the teachings of every possible teacher that you have been exposed to, and anything else linked to your own "spiritual path", that you have heard something similar to the aforementioned concepts.

If not, let me break it down... If you can imagine something, then you can't be it. Why? Because there has to be an imaginator. But even then you can't be that (because you can imagine an imaginator!) So you can't be the imagined, the imaginator, or imagination itself.

Try this simple excercise:
- look around your room and pick up any object in your hand (just a "simple" one).
-- are you this object? No, obviously not. You're looking at it, holding it, so how can you be it.

- go to the mirror and look at your body
-- are you your body? No, obviously not. You're looking at it, you can touch it, etc, so how can you be it.

- now think/feel something (some nasty fear that you may have).
-- are you this thought/feeling? No, obviously not. You are thinking/feeling it, so how can you be it.

- now use your mind
-- well, you're always using your mind, but let's continue with the formalities: What's 8*8? There, you used your mind. Are you your mind? No, obviously not. You just used it.

- now imagine something, ANYTHING (like a giant purple toe with feet... haha, whatever!)
-- are you this... thing? No, obviously not. You just imagined it.

So what are you?

You simply are. "Oh no", ponders payal, "what does he mean by that?". You simply are, payal, you're doing it right now. You were always doing it.

It's that easy. It's so subtle, yet so simple.
My 9 year old daughter will love this!! Thanks slap.

fifi
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Post by fifi » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:37 pm

Sorry, I mean.....erm shap.

payal
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thouhgts

Post by payal » Tue Sep 25, 2007 12:18 am

:D

Sw Anand Devagni.
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Post by Sw Anand Devagni. » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:40 pm

Kiki, you are incredibly eloquent. I can almost 'smell' your beautiful Presence.

Lovely!

D.

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