My Mind the Explainer

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
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renaissance
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My Mind the Explainer

Post by renaissance » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:57 pm

I am afflicted by my mind. I have a constant inner monologue. The voice I hear does nothing but explain. Everything/everyone has an explanation.

I conclude "This is so"; my mind goes on "This happened because of this, or maybe this, which is another example of that." or "This is [a quality: good/bad/etc] because it's ____." It's actually a combination of explaining and narrating. I can escape it, but rarely for long.

I am a curious person, and have been as long as I can remember. (I know, I'm identifying with my ego ). I'm seeking advice. Thanks

-Renaissance :roll:

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Post by Tenderhearted Warrior » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:31 pm

An affliction is the creation of ego, the material and temporary identity. The ego is afraid of disidentification because that means death to the ego.... which is oneness with matter. When you are highly conscious of the present, you transcend the ego and attain the spirit level of existence.

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Post by kiki » Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:24 pm

Tenderhearted Warrior wrote:The ego is afraid of disidentification because that means death to the ego....
That's right. What the ego doesn't grasp is that it will still be around even after waking up and so it will use whatever means it can to stay around, and one of the strategies it uses is feeding its "curiosity" and then going into inner-monologue over things. There is nothing inherently wrong with curiosity as long as one's sense of self isn't invested in it.

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Post by Agnieszka » Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:37 pm

Chattering, prattling, explaining, predicting, expecting... mind is typical and normal for great majority of people. I think it's funny. I perceive my mind as some sort of independent and quite powerful being, constantly living and creating life by and for its own. It lives its own life, regardless what I want, don't want or do. When it reaches peak of its talkativeness, I ask a question: who is saying all that? 8)

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Post by suraj » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:57 pm

I perceive my mind as some sort of independent and quite powerful being, constantly living and creating life by and for its own. It lives its own life, regardless what I want, don't want or do. When it reaches peak of its talkativeness, I ask a question: who is saying all that?
Hey , I feel the same ...and also do the same :)
I AM

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Seancho
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Post by Seancho » Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:00 pm

I agree except for the powerful part. What power does the mind have?

It cant do anything other than make pictures. About as powerful as a TV set.
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

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JD
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Post by JD » Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:06 pm

Seancho wrote:I agree except for the powerful part. What power does the mind have?

It cant do anything other than make pictures. About as powerful as a TV set.
The mind has great power because of its ability to shape and manipulate energy.

The pictures on a TV set contain no significant energy.

Pictures created by the mind are containers for many frequencies and strengths of psychic energy, depending on their nature.

These picture thought-forms are so powerful that they can create a Hitler or a Stalin.

Millions have died because of the power of the mind.

Monks in Burma are still dying because of its power.

Never underestimate the power of the mind. :wink:

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Seancho
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Post by Seancho » Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:05 am

True true JD, I understand what you are saying. It may be language that is the culprit here. The word mind gets used in different ways.

Renaissance was referring to the mind as a series of automatic thoughts. Im saying that thoughts like these have no inherent power. They are just mental images and verbal noise passing through awareness. Assuming that thoughts like these are powerful is what makes us all crazy.

If Im understanding you, you are referring to the mind as a vehicle for intention. In this way you can use thought to acomplish anything you want. Someone thinks of putting a man on the moon, and soon after, there he is.

Focusing energy is right. But you have to give it the energy.

All the mayhem you are describing happens when people invest energy in certain ideas. Then the mind focuses the energy. In wars, hysterias and panics highly-energized thoughts can spread like wildfire. But without fuel a fire cannot spread. Belief is the fuel.

For a thought to be powerful first you have to give it the energy. It is powerful only when you believe it. Belief or intention, conscious or unconscious, is powerful. On its own, a thought is just an image.

Its quite possible to have a head full of violent, sad or frightening images and not be upset by any of them. After all, why get upset by an image? Belief is powerful, a mere thought alone can do nothing.
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

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JD
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Post by JD » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:33 pm

Seancho wrote: Renaissance was referring to the mind as a series of automatic thoughts. I'm saying that thoughts like these have no inherent power.
Well, they obviously have power over Renaissance, or s/he wouldn't describe them as an "affliction" and solicit advice on how to be free of them. Whether the power is "inherent" is a matter of semantics and probably of little help to Renaissance.
For a thought to be powerful first you have to give it the energy.
That's a bit like saying: For a man to be powerful, first he has to breathe.

I mean that it's a given.

Everyone breathes and everyone gives power to the mind.

No one can avoid giving power to the mind because, as even ET admits, conceptual thought is a necessary stage in human evolution.

Children, especially, expend immense amounts of energy worrying over trifles and in this way their mind acquires a powerful reservoir of negative energy - fear, anxiety, etc - by the time they become adults.

No one can escape this process, so as a general observation it's true to say that the mind has great power.

The only way one could argue that the mind has no power, would be if everyone was conscious enough to be free of the mind's power.

Sadly, that's true of only a minute percentage of human beings. The rest are unconscious - locked into suffering caused by the power of the human mind. They can't escape. They have no choice, because choice implies consciousness.

Of course, they have the possibility of becoming conscious, but again, that's an option that only a tiny fraction of humanity even troubles to investigate.
Belief is the fuel. For a thought to be powerful first you have to give it the energy. It is powerful only when you believe it.
Again, I have to disagree with you.

There's a saying in psychiatric circles: Neurotics build castles in the clouds, psychotics live in them.

Neurotics are capable of distinguishing between imagination and consensus reality, whereas psychotics actually believe their delusional thoughts.

However, the neurotic can be just as tormented by his fears, even though he knows full well that they have no reality - he doesn't believe in them.

The reason for this is that his fear is a reaction to the energy charge that the thoughts carry and not to their ontological status (real/unreal, true/untrue).

This energy charge is objectively real, whether or not he chooses to believe in it.

So the key to ending his suffering is not for him to believe or disbelieve in the thought, indeed, refusing to believe in something that's patently real amounts to a form of denial.

He needs to understand exactly what a thought-form is and why it has power over him. Then he needs to apply that knowledge to de-energise the thought-form.

I tried to explain the basic mechanisms of thought-forms and how to de-energise them in these threads:

http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... php?t=2637

http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... 4734#14734

But thoughts are real and to conquer their power we must understand their nature and agenda and not simply pretend that they have no reality.

That was the basic error that Mary Baker Eddy fell into when she founded the Christian Science movement on her mantra that: "Illness is not real".

The thought-forms that create illness are absolutely real on their own level.
Last edited by JD on Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Webwanderer » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:22 pm

Excellent post JD,

There is the usual trap of language here when it comes to the word "real". Look up the word and it will have multiple definitions.

In our context here, we must distinquish between the real that defines an existance beyond any temporal appearance, such as awareness vs. form; and the real that defines an actual experience within the laws of physics, regardless of it's longevity.

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JD
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Post by JD » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:30 am

Webwanderer wrote:In our context here, we must distinquish between the real that defines an existance beyond any temporal appearance, such as awareness vs. form; and the real that defines an actual experience within the laws of physics, regardless of it's longevity.
Absolutely agree.

ET summed it up well: "It's all very well to say that suffering's unreal. The question is, is it real for you?".

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Seancho
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Post by Seancho » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:52 am

Ah, language.. :)

Yeah, real is a loaded word. I love visionary sci-fi author Philip K. Dick's definition of real:

Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.

Chew on that for awhile :lol:

Now JD, quoting from the posts you referenced..

JD wrote:Lie down and immerse yourself in guilt and fear. Feel the energy.

Realize that the energy and feelings are just thoughts.

They have no power to harm you.

Then find the still, calm centre underneath the turbulent thought-forms.

Anchor yourself in that stillness and watch the crazy thoughts from that place of absolute security.
And what I was afraid of was the thoughts themselves, which seemed to me to be veritable demons with an incredible power to inflict pain and fear.

It took a while to realize that I myself was giving them that power by collapsing into a state of gibbering terror whenever they put in an appearance.

In reality, even the most powerful of these thought-complexes proved to be no more than an empty phantasm when I was able to observe it dispassionately while remaining calm and focused.
Are you sure we disagree?
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

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JD
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Post by JD » Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:11 am

Seancho wrote:Are you sure we disagree?
Well, there's quite a difference between desensitizing yourself by "immersion" in the energy of thoughts - which is their core reality - and simply hoping they'll go away because you refuse to believe in them.

Don't bet the farm on it. :D

And the second quotation was written with hindsight - that is, from the perspective of presence.

I'm assuming that Renaissance is experiencing the "affliction" of mind from a very different perspective - one which makes "dispassionate observation of thought while remaining calm and focused" something to aim for, rather than a skill that's already been acquired.

If my experience is anything to go by, the mind-chatter that Renaissance complains of needs to be considerably reduced before there can be much calm focus or dispassionate observation.

In that condition, thought is horribly real and the power of the mind to mete out misery is very great.

But, Renaissance (forgive me for talking about you as though you're not here :D ), you've found your way to this forum and there could be no better start to getting free of your affliction.

A day seldom passes without at least one post that demonstrates in the clearest possible manner that the writer has found sanctuary in the eternal Now that is presence and found the way out of suffering.

Great work is being done here! :)

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