Destiny & Callings

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
fifi
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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by fifi » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:20 pm

Kutso wrote:
If there is a 'true calling', as you states that it does, and you have not reached this 'true calling'. Are you not resisting the now as it is? Isn't that like saying 'Why is this happening to me? I'm not meant for this. It's not supposed to be like this'.



Kutso
Yes, ....on the other hand, *if, (*my favourite word :wink: ) you feel something true is calling you, then that would be resistance to what is, also.

dubhasa
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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by dubhasa » Tue Jan 08, 2008 10:55 pm

Webwanderer wrote:Water always flows to the sea. The laws of the Universe make it so. It is it's destiny. There are many paths down the mountain with eddies, rapids and gentle pools, but each streams' ultimate destination is the same. There is a path for each of us that carries us where we must go.
Good one Webwanderer. Nice post.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Oswald2001 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:06 pm

fifi wrote:Oswald, if all acorns from say, one tree, were to sprout into oak trees, surely there would be no room for all seeds to become full potential oak tree growth anyway. On the other hand, a gentle breeze in the right direction wouldn't go amiss... :mrgreen: which brings me back to your quote....

'people with callings have direction because they have guidance'

so what form/s could this guidance take?
What form of guidance?

Sometimes, it's vision.

Generally, it's intuition. You 'just know'.

You 'just know' how to operate and cooperate with the unfolding.

Everyone has had this experience to some degree or another.

(It's the natural state. It happens automatically in the unaltered person.

Problem is...most everyone has been altered by life. Shifted from their path.)



The 'oak trees' have it enough that they are able to be on the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE whereas the 'acorns' are stuck on 'this' side.


So...would the 'forest' get too crowded if too many 'acorns' became 'oak trees'?

No. Not necessarily.

Under current conditons. Yes.

But...conditions can change. When you reach a CRITICAL MASS, you can see a PARADIGM SHIFT that CHANGES EVERYTHING. Previously unmanifested dynamics can come into play.

I believe that the much touted 'Second Coming' will likely be when a CRITICAL MASS of 'acorns' cross THE GREAT DIVIDE and become 'oak trees'.


Part of a time honored prayer:

"Thy will be done, Thy kingdom come...ON EARTH...as it is in Heaven.


I think that this is the inevitable conclusion of the Story of Man...if we don't kill ourselves off first. 8)







"Oh, Children.
It's just a shout away.
It's just a shout away."

-- The Rolling Stones
Last edited by Oswald2001 on Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fifi
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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by fifi » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:40 pm

so how does one regain the intuition that is rightfully our natural state?

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Oswald2001 » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:56 pm

fifi wrote:so how does one regain the intuition that is rightfully our natural state?
Sadly, I do not know.

Tolle, Byron Katie, Leonard Jacobson, etc. all had an 'experience'(s) that put them back on their path.

I was 'there' as a kid. For long enough to know it and not to doubt it. I am NOT speaking from theory.

I have spent the rest of my life trying to 'reconnect', but, without lasting success.




It appears to me that it is a matter of some form of Divine Intervention. Like with the story of Job.

Job had his 'groove', lost his 'groove'...and eventually 'got his groove back'. :D

I think Job did not resist 'what was' when adversity befell him and was brought through his 'wilderness' period into a time where he ended up with twice what he had lost.

All this through none of his own efforts. Destiny. Purely and Simply it appears.

It looks to me like Job took the Tolle approach.

(As far as I understand the story, that is.)

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by fifi » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:18 am

I'll tell you what i found to be true. Your right about loosing it as a child. but you never completley loose it, it just gets pushed to the back of the class in the naughty corner. I'll run some techniques tomorrow ...but :P beware, you'll never be the same again :wink:

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:12 am

Oswald2001 wrote:Part of a time honored prayer:

"Thy will be done, Thy kingdom come...ON EARTH...as it is in Heaven.


I think that this is the inevitable conclusion of the Story of Man...if we don't kill ourselves off first. 8)
Just an aside-

Some versions of the Lord's Prayer translates to "in" earth as it is in heaven. I like this version as it makes life in form a matter of content rather than a separate location. In earth meaning in form. Most translaters do not understand this perspective so they fix the "error".


King James Version:
"Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven..."

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by lilly83 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:07 am

I believe our calling is to relaise the truth, and that is enlightenment. if you look at the buddha who was not a relgious person at all, said one day when he was meditating he saw himself in many past lives, and in each life he ran to his death, living lives filled with cravings and aversion, reacting to his sensations and causing misery to himself and others. Seeking the truth from outside sources and never looking within, living in misery, clinging to one sensation to the next, trying to get rid of the bad sensations by reacting negativly, creating a new cycle of negativity.

I believe we are all here to realise the truth of life and so we can live peacefully and so we can have and give compassion and emphathy to those who are clouded by there ignorance of life, and love without wanting anything in return, give without anything in return, and finally live a peaceful, equanimous aware life. When we have an equanimuous and aware mind, we then can take the right action, but when our mind us unbalanced that is when we react instead of taking positive action.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by mikel » Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:00 pm

could we say alot of what we say here about reality as purported individuals is primarily releative to ourselves through thinking and can be identified with by others through thought. Oswald you have given me a your description of THE GREAT DIVIDE and how it holds meaning in your life and experience. When I think about your description of the great divide I can identify with it, I can intellectually understand how one might experience this sense of a great divide and the ramifications it could have to your life and my life. For me the great divide is simply a concept, a fabrication of mind with no reality, and so I have no concrete, held imagining about it or that I am on one side or the other, I am not bound by it. It sounds from your post that you believe this Great divide exists and you believe you are trapped on one side.

so how can this be? here we have an idea/ concept, yet we have 2 completely different reactions to it, belief in the idea binds and limits, seeing the unreality of the idea, no belief, no binding, no limitation.

How do I realise the unreality of the great divide, I realise it by seeing that when I woke up this morning it wasn't there, and when I make a cup of tea at break time it most likely won't be there. It only comes into existence when I read your post or when It pops into my head as a thought. What is of more interest to me is what was present when I woke up this morning and what is present here now writing these words and what has been present for every second, nano second since birth.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Oswald2001 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:25 pm

mikel wrote:For me the great divide is simply a concept, a fabrication of mind with no reality, and so I have no concrete, held imagining about it or that I am on one side or the other, I am not bound by it.
Well, ok. You could say the same for Gravity. You could say it's a fabrication of the mind too. And you could refuse to recognize it.

Don't try to fly off any buildings, though. :shock:


mikel wrote:It sounds from your post that you believe this Great divide exists and you believe you are trapped on one side.
Correct.

The same was true of Tolle before he had his 'experience' that took him from 'this' side to the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.
mikel wrote:so how can this be? here we have an idea/ concept, yet we have 2 completely different reactions to it, belief in the idea binds and limits, seeing the unreality of the idea, no belief, no binding, no limitation.
How can this be?

You can believe anything...including not having a limitation. Again, I still would not try flying off any buildings. No matter how strong your belief.

Some 'Beliefs' are actually really only Denial.

I once saw a guy walking down the street in purple shorts, a homemade cape and a gold foil cardboard crown. (Hey, it was in Hollywood. They do that type of stuff there. 8))

In his mind, he was The King. He really believed it. I didn't believe it, though. And I don't think anyone else did either.

So...there is Belief...and...there is Reality.

"Believin' don' n'essarily make it so."


mikel wrote:How do I realise the unreality of the great divide, I realise it by seeing that when I woke up this morning it wasn't there, and when I make a cup of tea at break time it most likely won't be there. It only comes into existence when I read your post or when It pops into my head as a thought.
That's called Compartmentalization.

You may think that Gravity may 'only come into existence' when you try to unsuccessfully fly off a building, but, it's always in play. Whether you're thinking about it or not.

mikel wrote: What is of more interest to me is what was present when I woke up this morning and what is present here now writing these words and what has been present for every second, nano second since birth.
It's good to be as present as possible.

It's possible to be present from 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE as well as the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.




I can tell that your comments are coming from someone on 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.

If ever you spend some time on the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE, you will sing a different tune.



Let's say you move into a house with the electrical power Un-connected. The wiring, plugs, lights and appliances are all there, but, there is no power. That is like 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.

And let's say that, at some point, the electrical power finally gets connected to the house. Quite a difference with the lights on, the heater operating and the washing machine, dryer & toaster working. That is like the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.


Make no mistake. Tolle crossed THE GREAT DIVIDE.

If Tolle had not crossed THE GREAT DIVIDE, we would not be having this discussion and this board would not exist.




By the way, THE GREAT DIVIDE is a description of the fact that 'this' side and the 'other' side are WORLDS APART, not that there is any great physical distance or that it absolutely has to take many years and great suffering to cross (though that it usually the case).

It's more like a parallel dimension type of thing. Or like a radio.

You can tune a radio to one frequency or another. All frequencies are always broadcasting. All the time. But you can only be tuned to one frequency at a time.

Some frequencies may be very close together, but, what you receive can be WORLDS APART.

Jesus said, "The kingdom of Heaven is at hand.".

I believe that he may have been referring to the 'closeness' of the 'other' side.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by mikel » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:37 pm

from here being is ever present and is what we are, there is no division when you are simply being yourself and fully open and grounded in the aliveness that you are. Not jumping off buildings I feel is more about the mind using the tool of discrimination in circumsatnces and situations which are realtive and in constant flux, rather than having a fixed belief about it.

Tolle has described himself that his mind made sense of self which is made up of thoughts, beliefs etc. simply dissolved and revealed his true nature, which is timeless being, he also says it is our nature, yours and mine and is ever present. According to him it is not difficult to be the presence that you are because you are that, one just needs to see it and become grounded in it.

In my experience the more often I sit quietly and just notice what is here, what is alive, simply noticing, looking, not thinking about it, still thought does naturally arise, the more this is done, the more a solid field of changeless awareness is experienced, and it brings me peace and harmony, both internally and externally in relationships etc.. This is a simple fact and I don't know what you would call it outside of it's a more satisfying and enjoyable way to be.

I'm not really disagreeing with your points of view Oswald, I just feel these points of view are what could be standing between you and a little bit of breathing space and peace.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by fifi » Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:38 pm

bang on brother Oswald. :lol:

as Jim morrison' once said.....

break on through to the other side'

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Oswald2001 » Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:15 pm

mikel wrote: I'm not really disagreeing with your points of view Oswald, I just feel these points of view are what could be standing between you and a little bit of breathing space and peace.
It's not a point of view.

It's an observation through direct experience.


Here. Contrast the BEFORES and AFTERS.

BEFORE = 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE

AFTER = the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE

*************************
An excerpt from here:

http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/eckharttolle.htm


JM: I'd like to talk about your transformation at age 29, where you say your personality was erased. Many people spend their lives trying to get something like that to happen, and here it happened to you at a young age. Can you talk a little bit about that?

ET: I was unhappy, depressed and anxious. I was not trying to become enlightened or anything like that. I was looking for some kind of answer to the dilemma of life, but I had been looking to the intellect for the answer; philosophy, religion and intellectual inspiration. The more I was looking on that level, the more unhappy I became. I reached a point where the phrase came into my head---and this is in the book "The Power Of Now"---"I can't live with myself any longer." That part of my self---that entity became so heavy and painful.

Suddenly I stepped back from myself, and it seemed to be two of me--- The "I", and this "self" that I cannot live with. Am I one or am I two? And that triggered me like a koan. It happened to me spontaneously. I looked at that sentence---"I can't live with myself". I had no intellectual answer. Who am I? Who is this self that I cannot live with? The answer came on a deeper level. I realized who I was.

When I'm speaking about it now, it becomes intellectualized because I'm using words, but that realization was beyond words. What "I" as consciousness had identified with was a very heavy mental and emotional form consisting of thought and accompanied by an energy field. At that moment the identification with that mind structure was withdrawn. It collapsed, and what remained was a spacious, peaceful consciousness. The identification was broken, and because of that, the mental/emotional structure---the psuedo self collapsed. My sense of identity broke down and was replaced by something that is very hard to put into words. Awareness. Consciousness. The words only came a few years later. I couldn't even talk about it. I had been anxious and depressed for years and suddenly I was deeply at peace.

JM: Do you think your transformation had less to do with achieving peace than letting go of the anxiousness and the worry?

ET: Yes. It wasn't really the achievement of anything; it was the realization by letting go of the identification. Something suddenly was there that actually had always been there but had been obscured continuously by identification with the heavy mind structure. As I came to work with other people, I realized every human being already has that dimension. No matter how anxious, depressed, disturbed and fearful they may be. That dimension is already in there, in every human being.

And so I came to understand why some masters sometimes say, "You are already enlightened." That dimension is already in there, it just needs to be discovered. Something needs to be let go of, something needs to be recognized.

******************************************

The use of the word "transformation" is accurate.

He could have used 'enlightenment' or 'born again' or 'awakening'.

Either way, he crossed over from 'this' side to the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.


Need more? OK.

***************************************

An excerpt from here:

http://www.thework.com/about.asp


Byron Katie became severely depressed in her early thirties. For almost a decade she spiraled down into depression, rage, self-loathing, and constant thoughts of suicide; for the last two years she was often unable to leave her bedroom.

Then one morning in February 1986, she experienced a life-changing realization. There are various names for an experience like this. Katie calls it "waking up to reality."

***************************************
The "life-changing realization" was her crossing over point from 'this' side to the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.



Still not seeing it? OK. Here's some more.


************************************
An excerpt from here:

http://www.leonardjacobson.com/about.php


In 1981, he experienced the first of a series of spontaneous mystical awakenings that profoundly altered his perception of life, truth, and reality. Each of these enlightenment experiences revealed deeper and deeper levels of consciousness, filling his teachings and his writings with profound wisdom, clarity, love and compassion.

************************************

ASLEEP = 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE

AWAKE = the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE




There are, of course, although statistically few, many many other examples.













"You know the day destroys the night
Night divides the day
Tried to run
Tried to hide
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side
Break on through to the other side, yeah"

-- The Doors

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by mikel » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:14 pm

It's not a point of view.

It's an observation through direct experience.
ok I hear you there, see what you mean now.

Yes I've read these accounts among others and found them deeply inspiring. :) It gave me the courage to look at myself so deeply and sit in the most intense fear and anxiety because I somehow new deep down the truth to which these accounts pointed to. It all begins and ends with you, and thats the best news of all. These stories for me were just an entry point. They were the green light that said go into the fear, don't pay to much attention to the mind, look and see what you are, don't be afraid to look, because that is really where you want to go.

so so liberating. I am no different now really than a year ago except I am not afraid so much and not lonely so much and I enjoy life more. very very gradual. I can only say what has been of value to me in these matters and often find posting is simply a means of processing my ideas about all this as much as responding to yours and others. So if we never agree on anything it's not such a big deal really at least we get the opportunity to express ourselves and perhaps find a bit more clarity through that expression.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Kutso » Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:58 pm

Ah, beliefs. Isn't everything beliefs? I mean, can we actually know something other than the fact that 'I am'? That 'I exist'? I know this is so. Everything we experience is distorted by belief. I think I am sitting here typing, but do I really know? No, this could all be just a dream. But even in a dream 'I am'. 'I am' is always.

But if everything is belief, couldn't one also say that 'what I believe to be true, is true for me'? We all make our own truths. Oswald believes in THE GREAT DIVIDE, and therefor it is true, for him. I believe THE GREAT DIVIDE is nonsense, and therefor it is true, for me. It is all about viewpoints. That's why the guy who walked down the street in his crown really was a king. At least for himself he was.

But what noone can say is false is 'I am'. I AM. I would never hesitate on that, and so would noone else. I mean, if someone came up to you and said 'You are not, you don't exist', you would not hesitate. You would not start to think 'hmmm... can this guy be right. Am I really not? Don't I exist?'. No. I am, and I know I am. Or as God puts it in the bible: I AM THAT I AM.

So, is THE GREAT DIVIDE for real, or is everything left for God to decide? Do we really have a matter of choice in anything at all? Who knows? Noone.

Kutso
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

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